Re: Greed in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18987722 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:21:56 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:21:56 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19194786 tiger72 :
said by apollo80 See Profile :

said by anaon444 :

And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole.
Not exactly a "loophole" when 1080i content is downrezzed to 480i.. For those of us with HD, the above method is useless.
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|- The LP »www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml -|
|- Cato @ Liberty »www.cato-at-liberty.org -|]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19194786 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:14:39 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19194775 tiger72 : because the commercials are cut out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19194775 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:13:06 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19004316 apollo80 :
said by anaon444 :

And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19004316 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:44:04 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996844 anon : Then just record it yourself and don't buy it. You say that, and it sounds so simple, yet you complain about it so obviously you aren't doing it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996844 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:40:21 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18995930 KrK :
said by Sammer See Profile :

Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself.
:uhh: Not a valid comparison. With a DVD in a store, you have a tangible physical item, with an actual value. A program broadcast for free to the public should be available for downloading for free, or at best, a very very minimal charge to cover the costs of providing the download. For example a 1 Hour TV show should be 10 cents.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18995930 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:06:34 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992244 Kearnstd : the BBC article also said NBC wanted to restrict use of their programs from being put onto Ipods. like apple will agree to that since Ipod is the company's baseline profit engine and the whole reason most use Itunes.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992244 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:20:29 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991765 tlcbob : You need to read the first post in this thread - he was talking about DVR'ing the content from his settop box and saving it. This IS legal. Then another poster compared it to taking a dvd from a store - no comparison - that is illegal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991765 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:08:06 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991685 smcallah : Analog outputs on DVR's are not protected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991685 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:42:00 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991371 ross : I don't have anything against a major network trying to double its profits by selling their own recordings of TV shows to people who missed the opportunity to record the original broadcast, as long as the network doesn't try to restrain the free distribution/sharing of similar recordings made by original contemporaneous audiences without charge to others for non-commercial enjoyment. The market, offset by file sharing, will act to rein in prices and keep things reasonable for those too lazy to have recorded the original broadcasts themselves, or to download from usenet, or via p2p.

However, in the case before us, NBC is seeking to double/treble its already doubled profits (made possible by the existence of outlets such as the iTunes store) by picking the pocket of the middleman. They are seeking to raise the wholesale cost/retail price beyond supportable limits; essentially asking Apple to pay over Apples existing margins, and forcing Apple to try and recoup the loss through pricing levels that can't be supported by the extent marketplace. At $1.99 (too high), the current price of NBC's offerings through iTunes exhausts the convenience factor. At $4.99, it's outrageous, simply price-gouging, and doomed to fail leaving Apple holding the bag.

It is one thing for NBC to price themselves out of the market, as that is their right, but quite another to ask Apple to subsidize their idiocy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18991371 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:48:43 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990586 LeftOfSanity :
said by GoD of KaOs See Profile :

said by kalphearion See Profile :

said by claco See Profile :

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.
Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels.
Exactly. People bitch about price increases, yet they don't think about the content providers. They want a big piece of the action.

Think about it, they want 5 bucks for an Ipod version of 1 show. Imagine if services were Ala carte.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990586 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:03:26 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990310 GoD of KaOs :
said by kalphearion See Profile :

said by claco See Profile :

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.
Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990310 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:19:23 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18989909 Ulmo : Ross,

what the other poster was saying is that you failed to consider that:

* You pay for cable
* You pay for television set

* You pay for DVD recorder
* You pay for DVD media
or
* You pay for DVR
or
* You pay for computer
* You pay for Internet connection

also, you pay for electricity, time spent doing the above, etc..

Those of us who discuss delivery prices talk about quality and quantity. Right now, the proposed $5 wouldn't have gotten enough quantity, and I posited that back when it was $2 minus one cent it had inferior quality due to lack of knowledge that it existed, but otherwise I bet iTunes might have had decent codecs that my system could handle (i.e., high res high bitrate XVID/something else as good), but I don't know. BT/USENET have half decent quantity and pretty darn good quality, but aren't always available (legally), however the prices are reasonable. But it always still costs money: whatever system you chose, you are paying for it. So, the question becomes what is the quality, quantity for that? Well, the quality of illegal is bad in itself. Besides and including that consideration, it is the quality and quantity we are discussing about NBC: if the quantity is 0 using their medium, it is insufficient for NBC to continue. If the quantity is one third of what it should be for the price paid, then it is overpriced, and insufficient in that regard, which is true of $5 per episode.

MBAs (which as a rule are always retarded in every way), and those discussing MBAs (because MBAs need all the guidance they can get), need to understand the basic fundamentals of what they're discussing to have any real progress that lasts to improve the MBAs' inevitably horrible offerings.

If a high quality show was offered for $1 to $2 per show (not 99 cents nor 99 cents plus 100 cents or anything dumb like that) using high quality codecs that my system could handle (I use it as a litmus test since it is a fast machine but not superfast so it is right where the dividing line can be), then it is reasonable. Double that price is unreasonable. $2 for a show that is not good is too much. $2 for a good show that has crappy codecs is too much. $2 for anything that I don't know about because they announced it only way way back when it was most likely just vaporware is irrelevent because I'll never buy it that way, and if I ever watch it, it will be via some other way. Not offering it at all of course doesn't conduct any business.

I use my full time minimum wage income (which is common for citizens these days due to government illegal alien employment encouragement and lack of controls for sending business to aliens) as the obvious measure for this stuff.

P.S., what shows did NBC offer? I never keep track of which old fasioned network is transmitting something, since I don't tune via those any more; I tune via other networks, and know very much about those.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18989909 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:09:28 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18989812 Ulmo :
said by Thymadman See Profile :

Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO
I didn't know episodes were available for $2 each. Too many MBAs involved: they announce a capability will be available soon, then get so mad at those of us who want to know when it is available that they never tell us that. I knew they would have it soon but never knew they actually had it. Anyway, $2 per episode is about the maximum reasonable price
, and if I had known they had it, I would have looked for things NBC sells that I might be interested in. Now, I won't, since they don't offer it, and $5 is exorbitant, not just because I say so, but simply because it cannot fit within my budget (as in it would make me homeless and die if I tried to pay for that garbage for $5 each 45 minutes).

Another thing that would help is if Apple stopped trying to piss me off by using obviously and blatantly deceptive pricing like "99 cents" in stead of $1, "1.99" instead of $2.

If iTunes announced something like this:

"We now have two years worth of over half of NBC's (ABC's, FOX's, etc.) programs available for download NOW using paypal or credit card for $2 each episode of 45 minutes or more ($1.50 for episodes 30 minutes or less)"

... then I would have been buying so much I would only be limited by my budget.

Edit: I am trying iTunes for the first time in my life right now. I couldn't find anything I wanted to watch (that's what makes Tivo method supposedly so great), so I chose an old episode I already watched, just to test everything. I was able to create the account (it takes paypal or credit card network based debit card), and it brought me back to the page where the BUY button for $2 minus a cent was again, I pressed it, confirmed yes, and the download began. It is "482.4MB" for a 44 minute episode (SG-1 10-3 The Pegasus Project), and claims it will take "3 hours" to download despite it coming what seems like a heck of a lot faster (Azureus is a LOT more accurate about ETA). It is limited by my blazingly fast up to 768kbps DSL inbound speed.

NOTE that I had to see this discussion thread to internalize that $199 wasn't TWO HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS. Psychologically "$2" is a LOT less than "$1.99".

I work as a cashier. These days most children don't get their change. There's a few reasons for this, but chief among them is revealed by what almost a third of them insist: "KEEP THE CHANGE!" What they mean is all that worthless clunky metal money that no longer adds up to anything useful fast enough (they want the paper money usually, although some of them even forgoe those pesky low value $1 bills). They say this for any amount: 99 cents, 1 cent, 75 cents -- usually much more than just 30 cents, often 60 cents and stuff, and they mean it. (Other reasons they don't get the change is they forget, but they forget not just because they're stupid but also because the force for them to remember isn't as great these days). So, cents are WORTHLESS. So, in a price, they and I only care about DOLLARS. So, when a price is "199", it looks like ONE HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS, not one dollar and ninety nine cents. MBAs are SO STUPID about continuing to put 99 cents in prices.

Edit 2: Apparently, I can start watching the show before it has finished downloading. That is great. However, there is a problem: I started watching it, and the quality sucks: (a) iTunes show has horrible movement artifacts that I never see in XVID versions of smaller sizes and lower bitrates! Big chunky movements! (b) It is extremely grainy -- how do they accomplish so much graininess? XVID shows are usually very sharp in comparison. Perhaps it is better than I know and I just don't see it yet, but it looks really bad compared to what I was used to. Perhaps my expectations were really high considering how much quality COULD be delivered with the iTunes model.

Using the iTunes model, getting Comcast makes more sense: I don't need as much outbound bandwidth, but obviously need more inbound. (I am already doingg a test install Monday to see how they are. I'll review it then.) I continued to watch the show, then when it ran into the download edge, I looked at its download statistics better. This is what I saw: quality still grainy (sandy), and movement badly represented, sound OK (not great) -- so far, worse than xvids from USENET/BT I've seen. I didn't check for subtitles or alternate languages yet to see if they have them. I haven't gotten to the action scenes yet (if there are any). The download information is too sparse: it only tells me ___._ "MB", not defining "MB", not telling me the current rate (which I calculated by timing it manually to be the maximum theoretical limit of my DSL connection as delivered (lots of overhead), not bad in itself), and it doesn't tell me how far it got in time. It also doesn't tell me the episode #.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18989812 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:51:16 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988853 dualsub2006 : YES! I am a GENIUS! And I'm not gonna tell YOU how I did it.

For everyone else, it is called a DVD recorder. I RECORD the content while I WATCH the content. Live or from DVR. I got mine at Best Lie for like $150 to some VCR tapes to DVD.

If I weren't such a GENIUS I never would have figured that out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988853 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:51:52 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988630 Sammer :
said by tlcbob See Profile :

Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use....
Yes but the iTunes store is a commercial service so personal use doesn't apply.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988630 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:15:47 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988153 anon : And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!

said by dualsub2006 See Profile :

You don't have to pay anyone anything. DVR the stuff and then use your DVD recorder. Move it to your computer, chop the commercials, add some fades to make the transitions smooth and you have it done.

NBC can sit and spin, I've been getting it for free for a very long time.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988153 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:09:55 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988255 tlcbob : Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use.... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988255 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:13:19 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988030 GunnarDanne : Yeaaaa but when you do that, you steal the media it was copied to and the box.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18988030 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:34:52 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987987 Sammer :
said by claco See Profile :

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987987 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:27:49 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987801 dualsub2006 : You don't have to pay anyone anything. DVR the stuff and then use your DVD recorder. Move it to your computer, chop the commercials, add some fades to make the transitions smooth and you have it done.

NBC can sit and spin, I've been getting it for free for a very long time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987801 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:55:52 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987722 kalphearion :
said by claco See Profile :

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987722 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:41:21 EDT Re: Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987641 claco : Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
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Six of one, 1,426/2,852 dozen of the other.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987641 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:25:00 EDT Greed http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987582 Thymadman : Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO
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If you can buy it, it's old!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18987582 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:14:10 EDT