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VR38DETT
Turbocharger X2
join:2002-10-24
Vancouver, BC

VR38DETT

Member

[Vista] Trouble understanding Network and Sharing Center

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Network and Sharing Center
My computer has been running Windows Vista Ultimate for almost 5 months now. After all this time, I am still having difficulty understanding some of the things in the Network and Sharing Center. Windows XP doesn't have this, and networking in XP seems to to be easier to understand... well, to me anyway.

First off, my computer is connected directly to the Internet (with no router or home network in between). However, the network diagram clearly shows a "Network" (Public network) between my computer and the Internet. Is this correct, or have I configured something incorrectly on my end?

Secondly, do the items under Sharing and Discovery only apply to networks behind my modem (e.g. a home network)? Obviously I do not want to share files, folders or printers with outsiders.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Well, the terminology is pretty funky. Any computer I've had had always been 'connected to the internet' as far as I'm concerned, regardless of whether it's got a router, firewall, or a banana attached. I can get to internet things, right? So I'm connected to the internet.

Or to take the oppposite point of view - no, you're not connected to the internet at all. You're connected to some ISP equipment that has its own private network that eventually connects to some big router that is connected to 'the internet'.

I conclude I don't need these distinctions. I view this wording as an attempt to decribe things that aren't actually present in the software.

----

As to whether there's a 'network' on your machine - if there's a cable or a wireless connection coming out of your computer, it's on a network. Even if the 'network' consists of 1 computer and a DSL modem.

As to whether this network is 'private' or 'public' - that's something you can tell the software, not vice-versa. I'm not running Vista, so I can't remember where you set that up - but I remember doing it on someone else's machine. In your case, though, perhaps public is the better choice.

The settings in 'sharing and discovery' are firewall settings, so they control what gets to your machine. I believe that you can allow the firewall to pass local network connections or all connections, independently. Check the firewall properties. Maybe you only see that level of control if you declare your network to be 'private'.

howie1
Premium Member
join:2003-04-08
Antarctica

howie1

Premium Member

said by dave:

Regardless of whether it's got a router, firewall, or a banana attached.
A Broadband banana?

SoonerAl
MVM
join:2002-07-23
Norman, OK

1 edit

SoonerAl to VR38DETT

MVM

to VR38DETT
If your connected directly to the modem (cable or DSL or dialup) you need to make sure the connection is configured as a Public network.
quote:
For the Public location type, the assumption is that the computer is directly connected to the Internet and therefore exposed to incoming malicious traffic from the Internet. Because of a possible hostile networking environment, the following default settings are automatically configured for networks with the Public location type:

* Windows Firewall is turned on

* Network discovery is turned off

* All forms of file and printer sharing are turned off, including file sharing, printer sharing, public folder sharing, and media sharing

If you change these default settings, they will be applied to every network with the Public location type.

»www.microsoft.com/techne ··· 906.mspx

Did you manually change the settings since you currently have the connection configured as public?
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

I think 'public' may be the default - when I was installing a Vista system, I had to figure out how to change it to 'private'.

louist
And So It Goes
Premium Member
join:2001-12-01
Oakland Gardens, NY

louist to VR38DETT

Premium Member

to VR38DETT
I have two Vista machines (One Business, the other Home Premium.) When compared to XP Network terminology and applications , Vista is, well, Different! (There is a great diatribe about this in the current PC Mag.)

In this case you are not protected behind a hardware firewall or router so the diagram is in Vista terms, accurate. You re showing a "Public" network. That is the default and correct since you want to be VERY protected and do not want to share resources with the network ( No file or printer sharing).

I think Microsoft needs to do some corrective work on the Network and Sharing Center. It is too troublesome in returning strange and variable status info to the user. It also takes too many clicks to get to controls that were easier to access in XP. I expect to see advances, not retreats in new technology.

Consider getting a router and hooking up through it. I am guessing that you are hard wired. You can get a basic hard wired Linksys or Dlink router CHEAP - just look for them on sale. Good investment. (Just adds another layer of separation from your computer to the Internet.)

SoonerAl
MVM
join:2002-07-23
Norman, OK

SoonerAl to dave

MVM

to dave
said by dave:

I think 'public' may be the default - when I was installing a Vista system, I had to figure out how to change it to 'private'.
Vista should ask you what you want to set the connection to (ie. Home, Work or Public) when you set it up. That is the way it has always worked for me on the Vista boxes I setup or when I connect to a new wired/wireless network...
SoonerAl

SoonerAl to louist

MVM

to louist
said by louist:

I have two Vista machines (One Business, the other Home Premium.) When compared to XP Network terminology and applications , Vista is, well, Different! (There is a great diatribe about this in the current PC Mag.)

In this case you are not protected behind a hardware firewall or router so the diagram is in Vista terms, accurate. You re showing a "Public" network. That is the default and correct since you want to be VERY protected and do not want to share resources with the network ( No file or printer sharing).

I think Microsoft needs to do some corrective work on the Network and Sharing Center. It is too troublesome in returning strange and variable status info to the user. It also takes too many clicks to get to controls that were easier to access in XP. I expect to see advances, not retreats in new technology.

Consider getting a router and hooking up through it. I am guessing that you are hard wired. You can get a basic hard wired Linksys or Dlink router CHEAP - just look for them on sale. Good investment. (Just adds another layer of separation from your computer to the Internet.)
The problem is the OP has the connection set for public but file sharing and network discovery are turned on. The OP needs to fix that, ie. turn off file sharing and network discovery or as you say run behind a router for added protection.

VR38DETT
Turbocharger X2
join:2002-10-24
Vancouver, BC

1 edit

VR38DETT

Member

Click for full size
NSC settings with NIS 2007 on
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NSC settings with Windows Firewall on

NIS 2007's default rules for file sharing
Alright, now I am assuming the default setting in NIS 2007 (my firewall) is the culprit.

If I turn on Windows Firewall, everything remains in the OFF mode (which is what I want). However, if I turn off Windows Firewall and leave NIS 2007 on, file sharing turns ON and network discovery goes into a "custom" mode. The options to turn off both are greyed out.

Now this probably means I have to muck around with the default/general rules in NIS. I know very little about firewall rule-making, so I could use some help with this. The two inbound rules (circled in red) are, I think, the default rules for file sharing. Do I need to remove them??

EDIT: Clarity.

louist
And So It Goes
Premium Member
join:2001-12-01
Oakland Gardens, NY

louist

Premium Member

You should change the default settings to not allow sharing because that is your preference. Just uncheck the default which is "allow" and it should return to the no share position.

VR38DETT
Turbocharger X2
join:2002-10-24
Vancouver, BC

VR38DETT

Member

I've just unchecked both rules. File sharing remains ON in NSC with the option for me to turn it off greyed out.

louist
And So It Goes
Premium Member
join:2001-12-01
Oakland Gardens, NY

louist

Premium Member

ODD. Can you turn it off in the Network and Sharing Center? (You may need to be logged on with administrator rights for this to work)

Owlbet
Ignite the Ice
Premium Member
join:2002-09-24
Palmer, AK

Owlbet to dave

Premium Member

to dave
said by dave:

I think 'public' may be the default - when I was installing a Vista system, I had to figure out how to change it to 'private'.
When I wiped clean and reinstalled the OS on my new Dell, it was sometime during the setup that I was asked what type of network I had. It may even have been right after the OS is written to the hard drive and you boot into it for the first time.

VR38DETT
Turbocharger X2
join:2002-10-24
Vancouver, BC

1 edit

VR38DETT to louist

Member

to louist
said by louist:

ODD. Can you turn it off in the Network and Sharing Center? (You may need to be logged on with administrator rights for this to work)
I am logged on with administrator rights. Unchecking those two firewall rules appears to have no effect. The radio buttons for network discovery and file sharing are still locked (greyed out) in the ON position.

However, upon closer inspection of those two rules, don't they actually BLOCK windows file sharing?? I am confused.

EDIT:
I have just performed a file sharing connection test over at Steve Gibson's ShieldsUP! website. The test passed just fine...

SoonerAl
MVM
join:2002-07-23
Norman, OK

1 edit

SoonerAl

MVM

I don't use NIS but that looks Ok to me now. I replied to your original post which did not happen to mention NIS 2007...

If you use NIS 2007 the Windows Firewall and Defender should be turned off or disabled.

Others can comment further on NIS 2007...

I use the built-in Windows Firewall, Windows Defender anti-spyware program and added NOD32 as my anti-virus program of choice.
SZR
join:2002-07-18
Oak Lawn, IL

2 edits

SZR to VR38DETT

Member

to VR38DETT
Hmm, I'm having the same problem as "Type R." Whenever I turn off my Windows Firewall, my "Network discovery" & "File sharing" is turned on automatically and there's no way to disable it (since it's greyed-out).

Is there a way to turn off "Network discovery" & "File sharing" while Windows Firewall is turned off? If I turn Windows Firewall back on, both options turn off, but I want all 3 of those turned off (Network discovery, File sharing, & Windows Firewall).

If it helps, I'm using AVG 7.5 Internet Security and I have the firewall deactivated in the program. The Network is set to "Private network." I'm directly connected to my router, Netgear WNR834B, using an ethernet cable.