US Cable Support > Comcast HSI > Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

reply to funchords

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

reply to paco
You know, I'm getting a bit tired of the whole "unlimited" argument. Show me where in any form of print, web, or whatever, Comcast is selling you unlimited bandwidth.

Once upon a time they offered "unlimited access", back in the days when dial-up accounts gave you so many hours a month, and you paid extra for going over that. Kind of like the way cell phones are run now. Which with all the whining from the power users/bandwidth hogs is probably the way that we're going to wind up going. Didn't Rogers up in the great white north just institute a 100GB/month limit, with users who exceeded that being charged by the GB? Maybe Comcast needs to do something similar. Download too much porn/warez/"linux distros" and you pay extra. Or maybe just different tiers levels for different users. But people will probably whine about that as well.

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* Funchords enters the way-back machine...

I remember that CompuServe used to charge per-minute one rate for a 110 bps connection, and a higher per-minute rate for a 300 bps connection.

Customers didn't like pay-by-the-minute, so the industry changed to pay-by-the-month.

When AOL switched to pay by the month, demand responded! Customers could not connect to AOL reliably for a couple of months! Suddenly people came out of the woodwork to sign-up, and users who previously were very careful about monitoring their online time extended their use of the service. The problem was so bad, that AOL's image was badly tarnished for a brief while -- some calling AOL "America Off-Line."

They eventually caught up, but they also rocked the industry. Pay-by-the-minute was dead, and the fledgling dial-up ISP business also exploded into life!

There were heavy users and light users then, too. Heavy users made sure that their dial-up connection never went idle. They used shareware/freeware applications so that they could ping different Internet sites and be "always on." Many customers tied up an incoming ISP phone line 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Customers bought additional phone lines, because their online usage increased so much that it was interfering with their normal voice-use of POTS.

How did AOL and other ISPs respond to this crush of demand? -- they improved their service to handle it.

AOL made crazy profits as a result, and mom-and-pop ISPs sprung up everywhere trying to get a piece of the action!

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Bandwidth has two factors amount of data over a period of time. Comcast sells, for $42.95, as standard in most markets, 6 Mbps.

Cost of the service: $42.95
The amount of data offered: 6 Megabits
Within an amount of time: 1 Second

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reply to dogcacher

reply to funchords

reply to funchords
When you look at Comcast's website they only refer to "Speed" that you can download. Not how much you can download.

Frankly, I think that we're going to be arguing apples and oranges here. You have an expectation of service that Comcast isn't willing to provide. Or at least not for the current pricing structure. My expectation is that I'm always connected, get decently high speeds and can do what I need to do online. We can argue back and forth here, but we're not going to change each other's minds.

My opinion is that in the end, all the whining, threats of lawsuits, newspaper articles, etc is going to tell Comcast that we need somesort of metered service. For 99% of the users who fall well below the current "abuse" thresholds, we'll still be paying the base rate. For those of you who are using 300+ GB's/month, when the bill comes and it's $100+ for HSI only, we can start a new whining thread then.

reply to sortofageek
First off,

I have the advertisement for Comcast unlimited access, just because you dont have it does not mean it doesnt exist.

second,

the argument versus speed and capacity is stupid, why would you care about speed if you cannot use it? you dont need lightning fast speed to download e-mail and web pages. In a nutshell that's what comcast is saying by cutting people off, they dont want you to download jack.

If you want to offer high speed, then allow people to use it. Otherwise modify the terms of service and advertising.

That's the damn argument here, not the fact that people are "bandwidth hogs" change the advertising and TOS and there will be no argument.

What comcast is doing is oversubscribing and then slapping people around when it doesnt work according to plan. They dont have the infrastructure to support 100 percent high-bandwidth like the fiber guys do however they are offering it up.

The bottom line is Comcast are crooks.

reply to jholdren
"When you look at Comcast's website they only refer to "Speed" that you can download. Not how much you can download."

This is absolutely true, and is an important distinction IMO. Speed does not equate to data transfer. If Comcast is going to, as a monopoly in most areas here in the East, regulate data transfer by month, they should advertise and disclose what that data transfer limit really is.

"Most customers are not necessary technical people, and they don't understand WHY 6 Mbps really means an average of something less than 1.34 Mbps."

I am technical and I know why you believe what you do and how you got to that conclusion for bandwidth consumption. And I don't agree with it - it appears to me that people are getting tagged for data transfer, and it's not being called bandwidth consumption. Your 6Mbps only equates to what's possible on your speed - it doesn't cover the amount of data you're dowloading or uploading per day. Associating speed with data transfer is not accurate. One can have 6Mbps or even the 1.34 average and still download 100gig per day on a cable modem per day, especially if more than one person is file sharing or downloading video content in a given home.

The article quoted at the beginning of this thread mentioned EVDO - Verizon is doing the same thing as Comcast, since their agreement is also for speed, however they DO have some fine print which states data transfer should be within "reason" (whatever "reason" is.) When you get your bill for EVDO, you'll see they also track the amount of data transfer, and it's on your monthly statement. Why is it there? So later (actually now apparently) they can tag you if they feel you're over their non-disclosed data transfer reasonable limits. Why else would they track it?

Comcast should adopt the same model if they're going this way, publish what their limits for data transfer are and Verizon should stipulate what "reasonable" transfer is.

reply to paco
Paco: I think what we're arguing about here is people's personal definitions. You state that you have an ad from Comcast that states "unlimited access". To me, that means that I have the ability to connect at any time of the day or night and not acrue additional fees. You seem to be arguing (and please correct me if I'm wrong here) that SINCE the access is unlimited, that you should be able to MAXIMIZE the usage of it.

I fully understand this argument. I just don't support it.

Since Comcast doesn't require contracts, people have the choice of leaving to other providers. If other providers aren't providing service in those areas, that's not Comcast's fault.

reply to dontask2much
My car has a speedometer that advertises 120Mph. I can go that fast, but if I do that it will kill the engine and cost a lot in gas.

The water pressure in my house is as fast as 6 gallons / minute, but it will cost me if I leave it running all the time or give it with my neighbors to water their lawns.

The electricity in my houses is 200amps, but if I use that 7x24 it will cost me a lot.

I went to the all you can eat buffet, but it was not the all you can "take" buffet.

reply to sortofageek
DEVNULLER,

What you are talking about is self-restraint. Who's talking about that? My car goes fast too, I have a house with electricity and I do have water. If I go to a buffet and pay one fee, I eat what I damn want. Their terms of service will state whether you can take it with you or not.

If you were a lawyer you would be fired pretty quick, you've got no argument. For the speed limit, the law pretty much defines that (that's one argument shot), for electricity you are metered thus not termed "unlimited" (another argument shot), and the law monitors your speed (another argument shot)

so what is your argument?

Paco: actually, all-you-can-eat buffets have been known to ask customers to leave who eat way more than the average person. Why? Because it's unprofiatable for the restaurant. Kind of like what Comcast has been doing with removing users who are using way more than the average user. It's the whole "We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anybody" argument. So I wouldn't trot that one out in your defense.

Pretty much everything you do (except maybe breath) can be listed as "metered" these days. The more you use of something, the more you pay for it. Why shouldn't ISP's operate the same way? We're already seeing some ISP's start to go that way.

reply to sortofageek
the human body can only hold so much damn food and the all you can eats that I've heard of asking people to leave was were people were loitering around.

as far as being metered, your right..ISP's do this, I work for one in fact. However, when someone says unlimited it's unlimited unless the TOS say otherwise.

the whole argument is BS anyway,
if comcast changed the advertisement and TOS this would all be a non-issue

reply to devnuller

reply to sortofageek
Anybody out there run steam with Comcast?

I'm actually afraid to buy and re-install games I've purchased with my hard earned money.

There have been posts in here saying that people who get the download limit cap warning letter are getting what they deserve. But with Steam, we're buying products we purchase with money, not pirate.

Think about it, 5-8 gigs per game. Don't you think it's a little unfair that people who legitimately buy games through download services get lumped into the "abusive pirate slime" category?

"Think about it, 5-8 gigs per game."

How many games are you buying a month?

Hob

reply to sortofageek
If I could, I'd download around 5 or 6. Since a lot of the games on Steam are priced fairly well. Some are $30, some are even $10.

Right now, I'm not downloading a thing out of fear. I still haven't even installed the games I already bought on Steam since my old hard drive crashed. The remaining games on my not installed list may very well total 40gigs.

Victor,

Please don't be discouraged from using your service.

In my experience, Comcast does not concern itself with how much bandwidth you use unless your usage begins to impact the network causing your neighbors to complain. In that event, the first notice you'll get is a warning.

If you need to do a large download (several GB), I think that you can avoid any impacts on your neighbors by downloading it during non-prime usage times.

Once your game is downloaded and installed, you do not need to worry about bandwidth usage. Game playing involves very little bandwidth compared to many other uses of the Internet.

In theory, most of these arguments in this Topic show that Comcast is punishing those that are guilty of simply using the service that they purchased. But the passion of the arguments pay lead you to think that Comcast is taking such actions unilaterally and frequently.

In practice, however, I've found that Comcast only takes such actions when the neighbors are complaining, probably because the downloader simply isn't aware of the shared nature of their Internet service.

I don't think that you have a reason to be concerned either way. But if you are concerned, just back off of your heavy game purchases and downloads between the hours of 6pm-10pm.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.

reply to Rick

reply to paco
Paco: actually one incident that I know of personally involved several teenagers and their family, and the teenagers ability to pack it away. There was no loitering involved. But that's not what we're here to discuss.

You keep bringing up Comcasts advertisements. I haven't seen any ads in the last couple of years where they indicate the HSI is "unlimited." You seem to imply that you have. Can you provide us with a recent one?