  sortofageek Premium,Mod join:2001-08-19 Valhalla Dr clubs:
Host: Team Helix Distributed Comput.. Linksys Comcast HSI Comcast Cable TV
edit: September 9th, @11:55AM
| Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
I don't know what else there is to say ...
»Comcast High Speed Internet »Does Comcast have bandwidth use limits?
... but if you want to type about it, keep it here. We can't fill the forum with multiple threads on one subject.
See also ---> »overage limits? how do you get it?
-- Join Team Helix * I am praying for these friends . |
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  ztmike Premium join:2001-08-02
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
edit: September 8th, @11:30PM
| Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse - Discuss here only
Not a complaint, but a program/tool to help people see how much bandwidth they are using..saw it in another thread, Kudos to whoever linked it, but should help people see how much bandwidth is currently being used and totals. To help combat Comcast's bandwidth limits:
»www.metal-machine.de/readerror/
Plus its free, unlike most other programs. |
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  fonzbear2000 Premium join:2005-08-09 Saint Paul, MN | reply to sortofageek a solution to this would be for comcast to have really high monthly bandwidth limits-300-400GB/month should be more than enough for anyone -- i wish qwest would die! i want FIOS! |
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  Cabal Premium join:2007-01-21 02101 | All that asking for hard caps will do is yield ridiculously low caps for everyone, like Charter's 40 GB per month. |
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  letmepost
@comcast.net
| WTF 40GB per month? What is this 1998? Jesus each website you go to nowadays is easily 1MB or over. My network at home has about 5+ connects connected to it often. I would easily go over that every month, doing nothing illegal or against my ISP's TOS. |
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 karly
join:2006-03-03 Minneapolis, MN | ive heard the rumors that many ISPs are starting to get more aggresive in limiting bandwidth, comcast has already joined this bandwagon. applying a choke to bittorrent traffic, and more monitoring of the bandwith caps |
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  fonzbear2000 Premium join:2005-08-09 Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast
| reply to Cabal said by Cabal :All that asking for hard caps will do is yield ridiculously low caps for everyone, like Charter's 40 GB per month. show me proof that charter has a 40GB cap-there is nothing about it at their website -- i wish qwest would die! i want FIOS! |
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  funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Skype
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
edit: September 9th, @04:13PM
| reply to sortofageek Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
Sorta,
Wow! Thanks for this place. It'll be interesting to watch! That FAQ entry is amazing!
Comcast seems to take a practical approach to bandwidth control. I don't see any evidence that they're going out of their way looking for bandwidth users.
Instead, they seem to respond to complaints by customers of poor ping times, bad VoIP experiences, and etc. Then they look at the node involved and identify that the issue is congestion and, looking further, they have one subscriber on the node that uses 30x to 50x (guessing) more than average.
Now, here's the issue. This subscriber may be using more than average, but why is that automatically considered a wrongful act?
The REAL problem here is that the customer thinks he is subscribing to service that comes with 6000 kbps / 384 kbps bandwidth -- and then the customer gets spanked for using it.
WISPs and Satellite ISPs educate their customers about the shared nature of their service, and up Fair Use guidelines so that everyone knows what to expect.
I think Comcast should dump the tiers -- they're just phony. Instead, talk about the expected customer experience (not guaranteed) and how well their network is meeting those goals.
Comcast, let's talk about "fair use" of the network so that Johnny Downloader understands that between 5 pm and 11 pm, he should throttle back. And, if he still doesn't get it, let's just help him (passively but openly) with some kind of temporary shaping that keeps the network running well and encourages Johnny to be more considerate. There's no need to shut him off for exceeding some invisible limit. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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  Rick Premium,MVM join:2001-02-06 Waterbury, CT clubs: 
| IMHO, Comcast should talk about nothing and just keep on doing what they're doing.
Those asking for fixed bandwidth caps seem not to understand the concept of what this service is all about.
There is NO WAY in the world any isp could allocate to EACH user 300 gigs per month of bandwidth for anywhere near this price.
Just the same way there is NO WAY in the world they could allocate a dedicated pipe to each user for the kinds of speeds we receive.
If you or I were to go out and buy this ourselves for strictly our own use, we'd probably be paying thousands per month for it.
Think about it this way. What's a T1 cost? 300~400.00 per month now? And that's just for a 1500k connection.
The way that this whole concept works for all is because of the shared nature of it. Both in terms of speeds and bandwidth we consume.
The poster above is absolutely right. If Comcast or any isp was to say to us that this is YOUR bandwidth you can consume..and no one elses..they'd probably have to be limiting us to 40gigs or maybe even less per month.
It's the same thing with powerboost. If they said this is YOUR 20Mb speeds..and no one elses..our bills would have to be many times what they are each month.
You and I get these speeds because it's available, and not being used at the time. Really, the concept is a great one. If they're paying for it anyway..and it's just sitting there unused..give it to someone.
Personally, I think that comcast is VERY liberal when it comes to how much they allow a person to consume each month in terms of bandwidth. Do you know how much 300 gigs per month is? Many people won't use that kind of bandwidth in a year or two...or maybe even more..never mind a months time.
But, some people do, and they're the ones who start to affect this whole system of shared resources for everyone. And, rightfully so..Comcast has to clamp down on them.
We've all seen the posts here from those who are getting the warnings. And personally, I think they're very few and far between, compared to how many people post here. I think that in and of itself says how few people this impacts. Reports have the number at 1% of their users..and that seems right to me, judging by the posts.
Are we all supposed to subsidize this small group of people who want to use this much? No. That's not fair to the rest of us IMO. I don't deny you the right to do what you want to do..but do suggest that if you're going to do it..you'd be best served in making some alternate plans as well. You can have a comcast connection..and a dsl connection if it's available..and split your usage among the two. Or...subscribe to a business tier with Comcast and pay a higher price. To me, that's the fair way that this should be approached.
Also to me, you're NOT bandwidth HOGS. You're people who want to use this service more than it's intended. And, who can impact the rest of us in doing so.
Sorry, but that's just not fair to the other 99% of us who get to listen to you complain.
And, to comcast..I say..keep on doing what you're doing.
Please. -- The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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  ninjadude
join:2002-01-06 Winfield, IL | reply to ztmike Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse - Discuss here only
but netmeter only works for a single PC. Not a network. |
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 espaeth Misanthrope Premium join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to fonzbear2000 said by fonzbear2000 :a solution to this would be for comcast to have really high monthly bandwidth limits-300-400GB/month should be more than enough for anyone Posting high bandwidth limits would actually increase bandwidth usage by a significant percentage of the user base. It gets translated from a limit to the perception that "I'm paying for 300GB of bandwidth /month" so that would just encourage people to download more as to not "waste" the bandwidth they are paying for.
For the costs to work out for every person transferring more than 100GB they need to have a sufficient number of users consuming less than 40GB to balance things out. (or some similar spread) Your monthly service fee actually pays for a lot less upstream bandwidth than you might expect.
-Eric |
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  funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Skype
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
edit: September 10th, @02:23AM
| reply to Rick Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
Rick,
Other than the first line of your rant, please tell me where you and I disagree?
said by Rick :IMHO, Comcast should talk about nothing and just keep on doing what they're doing. Those asking for fixed bandwidth caps seem not to understand the concept of what this service is all about. Agreed, and they won't help anyone (including the troll who is pushing for them).There is NO WAY in the world any isp could allocate to EACH user 300 gigs per month of bandwidth for anywhere near this price. Agreed. However, to the customer who doesn't know anything about Internet delivered over CATV wires, Comcast appears to offer exactly that!Just the same way there is NO WAY in the world they could allocate a dedicated pipe to each user for the kinds of speeds we receive. We agree here, too!If you or I were to go out and buy this ourselves for strictly our own use, we'd probably be paying thousands per month for it. Yep.Think about it this way. What's a T1 cost? 300~400.00 per month now? And that's just for a 1500k connection. Well, you're also paying for the relative rarity and a maintenance charge for the T1. The bandwidth isn't the driving factor. But, other than that finer point, we definitely agree.The way that this whole concept works for all is because of the shared nature of it. Both in terms of speeds and bandwidth we consume. You're preachin' to the choir! I totally agree. So why doesn't Comcast apparently want their consumers to know about this? (Be careful not to step in that pile of marketing over there...)The poster above is absolutely right. If Comcast or any isp was to say to us that this is YOUR bandwidth you can consume..and no one elses..they'd probably have to be limiting us to 40gigs or maybe even less per month. Sure, I agree.It's the same thing with powerboost. If they said this is YOUR 20Mb speeds..and no one elses..our bills would have to be many times what they are each month. Naturally!You and I get these speeds because it's available, and not being used at the time. Really, the concept is a great one. If they're paying for it anyway..and it's just sitting there unused..give it to someone. Agreed! You're making my points, but you're responding as if you're trying to convince me that I'm wrong!Personally, I think that comcast is VERY liberal when it comes to how much they allow a person to consume each month in terms of bandwidth. Do you know how much 300 gigs per month is? Many people won't use that kind of bandwidth in a year or two...or maybe even more..never mind a months time. And I must have said 10 times in the past 10 days that I think that Comcast has been a liberal ISP. One of those posts was a direct reply to you, since I know you've recently become a Comcast customer. But, some people do, and they're the ones who start to affect this whole system of shared resources for everyone. And, rightfully so..Comcast has to clamp down on them. Which I also recommended in the very post that you're responding to -- so we agree.We've all seen the posts here from those who are getting the warnings. And personally, I think they're very few and far between, compared to how many people post here. I think that in and of itself says how few people this impacts. Reports have the number at 1% of their users..and that seems right to me, judging by the posts. I'll buy that.Are we all supposed to subsidize this small group of people who want to use this much? No. That's not fair to the rest of us IMO. And nothing in my post suggested that we subsidize him, in fact, I suggested that Comcast forcefully limit his connection if he doesn't comply.I don't deny you the right to do what you want to do..but do suggest that if you're going to do it..you'd be best served in making some alternate plans as well. You can have a comcast connection..and a dsl connection if it's available..and split your usage among the two. Or...subscribe to a business tier with Comcast and pay a higher price. To me, that's the fair way that this should be approached. Natually, if I can't get enough bandwidth from one connection, I can probably get more from another source. We're still in violent agreement here, Rick.Also to me, you're NOT bandwidth HOGS. You're people who want to use this service more than it's intended. And, who can impact the rest of us in doing so. Yes -- exactly. I know that, you know that. We're not the ones that are the problem, because we understand. As I said, "The REAL problem here is that the customer thinks he is subscribing to service that comes with 6000 kbps / 384 kbps bandwidth -- and then the customer gets spanked for using it." Sorry, but that's just not fair to the other 99% of us who get to listen to you complain. True, it's not fair -- but don't take it out on "us." We are simply using the service without doing anything abusive like uncapping our modems or opening our own public Wi-Fi hotspot. This service tier was offered to us and we bought it. Nobody told us anything about it being shared or that there were bandwidth limits with the service. (I'm obviously speaking as the uneducated version of "us" in this case.) If you think "it's not fair," then tell Comcast it's not fair! They created this problem by setting our expectations higher than their system can deliver!And, to comcast..I say..keep on doing what you're doing. Please. To which I sarcastically (but in good spirits) add: ...because it's working so well! -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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  Kniveton
join:2001-09-20 San Francisco, CA
·CYBERONIC INTERNET..
| reply to Rick Yes, this seems to make sense. They have not invested in an infrastructure that could provide huge amounts of bandwidth to users over an extended period of time. So it is reasonable to cap users' capacity after a certain point, and not tell them about what that point is, so that they won't try and subvert the limitation.
this is all fine and dandy, except for one thing.. ADVERTISING! Or more specifically, FALSE advertising. Comcast is advertising about how fast their services are, and it would be a reasonable assumption that the service is fast because it can support a user transferring lots of data. By penalizing users for doing so, Comcast is setting themselves up for a HUGE class action lawsuit.
I'm sure they're aware of this, vis a vis their recent binding arbitration clause for all customers. ...which was thrown out by the courts. Oooops.
Wonder if investors are paying attention to this trainwreck waiting to happen. |
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  deblin Dark Side of the Moon Premium,MVM join:2001-09-01 Middletown, DE
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast Workplace
·DSL EXTREME
| What does speed have to do with the amount of data they allow you to download (whether published or not)? I'm not taking either side here, I'm just saying that Comcast advertising the connection as fast has nothing to do with how much you can download. If you, as a viewing user, make an assumption that if the speed is X, you can download 30*24*60*60*X in a month without repercussion, you're doing just that - making an assumption. Comcast advertising their speed as fast does not necessarily mean that you are guaranteed to be able to download as much as possible at said maximum speed. -- "The Dude abides." |
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  funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Skype
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| said by deblin :If you, as a viewing user, make an assumption that if the speed is X, you can download 30*24*60*60*X in a month without repercussion, you're doing just that - making an assumption. Let's say you sign up for a gym membership -- standard stuff, $30 a month, no time-of-day restrictions, no day-of-week restrictions. You start working out every day for around two hours a day.
After about a week, the gym manager walks up to you and says, "Deblin, you're using the gym too much. You have to use it less or I'm canceling your membership."
"Why didn't you tell me this when I signed up?" You ask. He doesn't answer you, but he does point out this clause that says that your use of the gym cannot be disruptive.
Appropriately peeved, you grit your teeth and ask, "Well, how much can I use the gym?"
"No, we can't tell you that, either. But, keep in mind, that if you don't cut back your use of the gym enough, you're out of here and you're banned from the gym for a year," he says. "And don't forget, we're the only gym in town -- except for that ratty old set of free-weights down at the city Parks and Recreation department." -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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  hobgoblin Sortof Agoblin Premium join:2001-11-25 Orchard Park, NY clubs:
| "You start working out every day for around two hours a day."
Another bad analogy.
I have made this point before. You have to be in the Gym to be able to use it! I don't think there would be any problem if the service was being used...IE the person was sitting in front of the computer. In almost all cases they are not. They have everything queued up and are in bed or at school!
A better analogy would be if you went to the gym and threw towels over all the exercise machines reserving them for you even though you were home in bed! Thus impacting the gym for others.
Hob -- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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  deblin Dark Side of the Moon Premium,MVM join:2001-09-01 Middletown, DE | Very well put. |
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  funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Skype
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| reply to hobgoblin said by hobgoblin :Another bad analogy. I have made this point before. You have to be in the Gym to be able to use it! I don't think there would be any problem if the service was being used...IE the person was sitting in front of the computer. In almost all cases they are not. They have everything queued up and are in bed or at school! So you shouldn't be able to download e-mail into Outlook Express or get OS updates from Microsoft unless you're warming the seat in front of your computer? May I synchronize my clock using NTP or request a DHCP renewal while I'm walking the dog?
It's another invented excuse -- and a lame one, on par with "residential service." Computers are automatons. They're supposed to do things like downloading podcasts and nntp news while you're out enjoying life.
Comcast is encouraging the customer's perception of the service with their advertising that mentions specific bandwidth.
"The REAL problem here is that the customer thinks he is subscribing to service that comes with 6000 kbps / 384 kbps bandwidth -- and then the customer gets spanked for using it."
Or maybe you think customers should behave this way?
New Customer: "6000 kilobits per second?" Comcast Rep: That's right, sir! New Customer: "Do I have to ask, 'Which Seconds?'" -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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  hobgoblin Sortof Agoblin Premium join:2001-11-25 Orchard Park, NY clubs:
| This was my statement based on my opinion.
Its not an invented excuse....it was a reply to your analogy.
2 hours a day in the Gym is expected.....24 hours a day is not and that is what you were comparing.
Downloading mail...getting OS updates is normal use....and you know it.
The small minority that think its cool to run everything full bore are the ones that are spoiling it for everyone...I dont understand how you cant see that.
Hob -- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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 dogcacher
join:2004-07-17 Central City, PA
| reply to funchords said by funchords :So you shouldn't be able to download e-mail into Outlook Express or get OS updates from Microsoft unless you're warming the seat in front of your computer? May I synchronize my clock using NTP or request a DHCP renewal while I'm walking the dog? That is about as lame as it gets. Consume 500 GB checking mail, getting updates, synchronizing clocks and renewing DHCP?
Uh huh, get real. |
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