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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

1 recommendation

reply to funchords

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

IMHO, Comcast should talk about nothing and just keep on doing what they're doing.

Those asking for fixed bandwidth caps seem not to understand the concept of what this service is all about.

There is NO WAY in the world any isp could allocate to EACH user 300 gigs per month of bandwidth for anywhere near this price.

Just the same way there is NO WAY in the world they could allocate a dedicated pipe to each user for the kinds of speeds we receive.

If you or I were to go out and buy this ourselves for strictly our own use, we'd probably be paying thousands per month for it.

Think about it this way. What's a T1 cost? 300~400.00 per month now? And that's just for a 1500k connection.

The way that this whole concept works for all is because of the shared nature of it. Both in terms of speeds and bandwidth we consume.

The poster above is absolutely right. If Comcast or any isp was to say to us that this is YOUR bandwidth you can consume..and no one elses..they'd probably have to be limiting us to 40gigs or maybe even less per month.

It's the same thing with powerboost. If they said this is YOUR 20Mb speeds..and no one elses..our bills would have to be many times what they are each month.

You and I get these speeds because it's available, and not being used at the time. Really, the concept is a great one.
If they're paying for it anyway..and it's just sitting there unused..give it to someone.

Personally, I think that comcast is VERY liberal when it comes to how much they allow a person to consume each month in terms of bandwidth.
Do you know how much 300 gigs per month is?
Many people won't use that kind of bandwidth in a year or two...or maybe even more..never mind a months time.

But, some people do, and they're the ones who start to affect this whole system of shared resources for everyone.
And, rightfully so..Comcast has to clamp down on them.

We've all seen the posts here from those who are getting the warnings. And personally, I think they're very few and far between, compared to how many people post here.
I think that in and of itself says how few people this impacts.
Reports have the number at 1% of their users..and that seems right to me, judging by the posts.

Are we all supposed to subsidize this small group of people who want to use this much? No. That's not fair to the rest of us IMO. I don't deny you the right to do what you want to do..but do suggest that if you're going to do it..you'd be best served in making some alternate plans as well.
You can have a comcast connection..and a dsl connection if it's available..and split your usage among the two.
Or...subscribe to a business tier with Comcast and pay a higher price. To me, that's the fair way that this should be approached.

Also to me, you're NOT bandwidth HOGS. You're people who want to use this service more than it's intended.
And, who can impact the rest of us in doing so.

Sorry, but that's just not fair to the other 99% of us who get to listen to you complain.

And, to comcast..I say..keep on doing what you're doing.

Please.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

3 edits

2 recommendations

Rick,

Other than the first line of your rant, please tell me where you and I disagree?

said by Rick:

IMHO, Comcast should talk about nothing and just keep on doing what they're doing.

Those asking for fixed bandwidth caps seem not to understand the concept of what this service is all about. Agreed, and they won't help anyone (including the troll who is pushing for them).

There is NO WAY in the world any isp could allocate to EACH user 300 gigs per month of bandwidth for anywhere near this price. Agreed. However, to the customer who doesn't know anything about Internet delivered over CATV wires, Comcast appears to offer exactly that!

Just the same way there is NO WAY in the world they could allocate a dedicated pipe to each user for the kinds of speeds we receive. We agree here, too!

If you or I were to go out and buy this ourselves for strictly our own use, we'd probably be paying thousands per month for it. Yep.

Think about it this way. What's a T1 cost? 300~400.00 per month now? And that's just for a 1500k connection. Well, you're also paying for the relative rarity and a maintenance charge for the T1. The bandwidth isn't the driving factor. But, other than that finer point, we definitely agree.

The way that this whole concept works for all is because of the shared nature of it. Both in terms of speeds and bandwidth we consume. You're preachin' to the choir! I totally agree. So why doesn't Comcast apparently want their consumers to know about this? (Be careful not to step in that pile of marketing over there...)

The poster above is absolutely right. If Comcast or any isp was to say to us that this is YOUR bandwidth you can consume..and no one elses..they'd probably have to be limiting us to 40gigs or maybe even less per month. Sure, I agree.

It's the same thing with powerboost. If they said this is YOUR 20Mb speeds..and no one elses..our bills would have to be many times what they are each month. Naturally!

You and I get these speeds because it's available, and not being used at the time. Really, the concept is a great one.
If they're paying for it anyway..and it's just sitting there unused..give it to someone. Agreed! You're making my points, but you're responding as if you're trying to convince me that I'm wrong!

Personally, I think that comcast is VERY liberal when it comes to how much they allow a person to consume each month in terms of bandwidth.
Do you know how much 300 gigs per month is?
Many people won't use that kind of bandwidth in a year or two...or maybe even more..never mind a months time. And I must have said 10 times in the past 10 days that I think that Comcast has been a liberal ISP. One of those posts was a direct reply to you, since I know you've recently become a Comcast customer.

But, some people do, and they're the ones who start to affect this whole system of shared resources for everyone.
And, rightfully so..Comcast has to clamp down on them. Which I also recommended in the very post that you're responding to -- so we agree.

We've all seen the posts here from those who are getting the warnings. And personally, I think they're very few and far between, compared to how many people post here.
I think that in and of itself says how few people this impacts.
Reports have the number at 1% of their users..and that seems right to me, judging by the posts. I'll buy that.

Are we all supposed to subsidize this small group of people who want to use this much? No. That's not fair to the rest of us IMO. And nothing in my post suggested that we subsidize him, in fact, I suggested that Comcast forcefully limit his connection if he doesn't comply.

I don't deny you the right to do what you want to do..but do suggest that if you're going to do it..you'd be best served in making some alternate plans as well.
You can have a comcast connection..and a dsl connection if it's available..and split your usage among the two.
Or...subscribe to a business tier with Comcast and pay a higher price. To me, that's the fair way that this should be approached. Natually, if I can't get enough bandwidth from one connection, I can probably get more from another source. We're still in violent agreement here, Rick.

Also to me, you're NOT bandwidth HOGS. You're people who want to use this service more than it's intended.
And, who can impact the rest of us in doing so. Yes -- exactly. I know that, you know that. We're not the ones that are the problem, because we understand. As I said, "The REAL problem here is that the customer thinks he is subscribing to service that comes with 6000 kbps / 384 kbps bandwidth -- and then the customer gets spanked for using it."

Sorry, but that's just not fair to the other 99% of us who get to listen to you complain. True, it's not fair -- but don't take it out on "us." We are simply using the service without doing anything abusive like uncapping our modems or opening our own public Wi-Fi hotspot. This service tier was offered to us and we bought it. Nobody told us anything about it being shared or that there were bandwidth limits with the service. (I'm obviously speaking as the uneducated version of "us" in this case.) If you think "it's not fair," then tell Comcast it's not fair! They created this problem by setting our expectations higher than their system can deliver!

And, to comcast..I say..keep on doing what you're doing.
Please. To which I sarcastically (but in good spirits) add: ...because it's working so well!
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.


Kniveton

join:2001-09-20
San Francisco, CA
reply to Rick

Yes, this seems to make sense. They have not invested in an infrastructure that could provide huge amounts of bandwidth to users over an extended period of time. So it is reasonable to cap users' capacity after a certain point, and not tell them about what that point is, so that they won't try and subvert the limitation.

this is all fine and dandy, except for one thing.. ADVERTISING! Or more specifically, FALSE advertising. Comcast is advertising about how fast their services are, and it would be a reasonable assumption that the service is fast because it can support a user transferring lots of data. By penalizing users for doing so, Comcast is setting themselves up for a HUGE class action lawsuit.

I'm sure they're aware of this, vis a vis their recent binding arbitration clause for all customers. ...which was thrown out by the courts. Oooops.

Wonder if investors are paying attention to this trainwreck waiting to happen.



pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3

What does speed have to do with the amount of data they allow you to download (whether published or not)? I'm not taking either side here, I'm just saying that Comcast advertising the connection as fast has nothing to do with how much you can download. If you, as a viewing user, make an assumption that if the speed is X, you can download 30*24*60*60*X in a month without repercussion, you're doing just that - making an assumption. Comcast advertising their speed as fast does not necessarily mean that you are guaranteed to be able to download as much as possible at said maximum speed.
--
"The Dude abides."



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

said by pflog:

If you, as a viewing user, make an assumption that if the speed is X, you can download 30*24*60*60*X in a month without repercussion, you're doing just that - making an assumption.
Let's say you sign up for a gym membership -- standard stuff, $30 a month, no time-of-day restrictions, no day-of-week restrictions. You start working out every day for around two hours a day.

After about a week, the gym manager walks up to you and says, "Deblin, you're using the gym too much. You have to use it less or I'm canceling your membership."

"Why didn't you tell me this when I signed up?" You ask. He doesn't answer you, but he does point out this clause that says that your use of the gym cannot be disruptive.

Appropriately peeved, you grit your teeth and ask, "Well, how much can I use the gym?"

"No, we can't tell you that, either. But, keep in mind, that if you don't cut back your use of the gym enough, you're out of here and you're banned from the gym for a year," he says. "And don't forget, we're the only gym in town -- except for that ratty old set of free-weights down at the city Parks and Recreation department."
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:10

2 recommendations

"You start working out every day for around two hours a day."

Another bad analogy.

I have made this point before. You have to be in the Gym to be able to use it! I don't think there would be any problem if the service was being used...IE the person was sitting in front of the computer. In almost all cases they are not. They have everything queued up and are in bed or at school!

A better analogy would be if you went to the gym and threw towels over all the exercise machines reserving them for you even though you were home in bed! Thus impacting the gym for others.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3

Very well put.



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to hobgoblin

said by hobgoblin:

Another bad analogy.

I have made this point before. You have to be in the Gym to be able to use it! I don't think there would be any problem if the service was being used...IE the person was sitting in front of the computer. In almost all cases they are not. They have everything queued up and are in bed or at school!
So you shouldn't be able to download e-mail into Outlook Express or get OS updates from Microsoft unless you're warming the seat in front of your computer? May I synchronize my clock using NTP or request a DHCP renewal while I'm walking the dog?

It's another invented excuse -- and a lame one, on par with "residential service." Computers are automatons. They're supposed to do things like downloading podcasts and nntp news while you're out enjoying life.

Comcast is encouraging the customer's perception of the service with their advertising that mentions specific bandwidth.

"The REAL problem here is that the customer thinks he is subscribing to service that comes with 6000 kbps / 384 kbps bandwidth -- and then the customer gets spanked for using it."

Or maybe you think customers should behave this way?

New Customer: "6000 kilobits per second?"
Comcast Rep: That's right, sir!
New Customer: "Do I have to ask, 'Which Seconds?'"
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:10

1 recommendation

This was my statement based on my opinion.

Its not an invented excuse....it was a reply to your analogy.

2 hours a day in the Gym is expected.....24 hours a day is not and that is what you were comparing.

Downloading mail...getting OS updates is normal use....and you know it.

The small minority that think its cool to run everything full bore are the ones that are spoiling it for everyone...I dont understand how you cant see that.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


mike34
Premium
join:2004-07-17
Central City, PA
reply to funchords

said by funchords:

So you shouldn't be able to download e-mail into Outlook Express or get OS updates from Microsoft unless you're warming the seat in front of your computer? May I synchronize my clock using NTP or request a DHCP renewal while I'm walking the dog?
That is about as lame as it gets. Consume 500 GB checking mail, getting updates, synchronizing clocks and renewing DHCP?

Uh huh, get real.


Wayne99021
Premium
join:2004-12-28
Mead, WA
kudos:1

There is a good article in the PC World Oct 2007 issue.
Companies to customers: your fired.
Just a couple from that article.
Sprint Nextel terminated 1200 customers for excessive service calls
AT&T has kicked off cell phone users who roam or use data services too frequently.
Now these are not too much bandwidth usage issue, but it does show what companies are doing now.
Verizon EvDO high speed wireless data services terminates people if there usage is regularly 5 gig or more per month.
Verizon only does this if their warnings to the customer are ignored. Does that sound familiar to the people who got the letter from Comcast.
Verizon has also cancelled the accounts of callers who are "extremely abusive" to customer service representatives.
So Comcast is not the only company dumping customers.
This appears to be the way things are going to be from now on so quit bitching about what isn't and accept what is.


mike34
Premium
join:2004-07-17
Central City, PA

said by Wayne99021:

reply to dogcacher

quit bitching about what isn't and accept what is.
Who's bitching?


Wayne99021
Premium
join:2004-12-28
Mead, WA
kudos:1

Sorry:
That wasn't meant for one person, it was meant for all the people who complain about Comcast and bandwidth limits.



Ryan
Premium
join:2001-03-03
Braintree, MA
reply to Wayne99021

said by Wayne99021:

There is a good article in the PC World Oct 2007 issue.
Companies to customers: your fired.
Just a couple from that article.
Sprint Nextel terminated 1200 customers for excessive service calls
AT&T has kicked off cell phone users who roam or use data services too frequently.
Now these are not too much bandwidth usage issue, but it does show what companies are doing now.
Verizon EvDO high speed wireless data services terminates people if there usage is regularly 5 gig or more per month.
Verizon only does this if their warnings to the customer are ignored. Does that sound familiar to the people who got the letter from Comcast.
Verizon has also cancelled the accounts of callers who are "extremely abusive" to customer service representatives.
So Comcast is not the only company dumping customers.
This appears to be the way things are going to be from now on so quit bitching about what isn't and accept what is.
That is a completely different argument then what comcast is doing.

A. all the services are not monopolies there are others availible for most people.
B. the wireless infastructure is different then standard isps. To download more then 5 gis on a cell is insane if not imposible.
c. sprint and nextel terminated these people due to service related issues. They releived them from their contract so that they did not have to pay early contract fees which imho is a customer service move.


Wayne99021
Premium
join:2004-12-28
Mead, WA
kudos:1

What you are saying may be true as I am just going by what the article says.
Your B. is not correct as Verizon EvDO is wireless internet, I know this for a fact as my daughter is 2100 feet from the nearest Comcast hookup and rather than going dialup she went Verizon wireless internet, so the 5 gig is not impossible.



EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9
reply to mike34

said by mike34:

said by funchords:

So you shouldn't be able to download e-mail into Outlook Express or get OS updates from Microsoft unless you're warming the seat in front of your computer? May I synchronize my clock using NTP or request a DHCP renewal while I'm walking the dog?
That is about as lame as it gets. Consume 500 GB checking mail, getting updates, synchronizing clocks and renewing DHCP?

Uh huh, get real.
You don't get it

mike34
Premium
join:2004-07-17
Central City, PA

1 edit

said by EG:

You don't get it

Oh, that's a big help.

I get it alright. I understand the effects of a few bandwidth hogs on a shared network, I understand that it is impossible for a Comcast residential customer to download that amount of data without getting into the illegal activities of copyright infringement and porn.

Now, what is it you claim I 'don't get?'


Ryan
Premium
join:2001-03-03
Braintree, MA

The problem is dont beleive that is true anymore esspecially if there are multiple users in a household and if they use streaming services. Many can stream "HD" movies and music which sucks up tons of bandwidth depedning on how much you use it. Things like youtube and vpn also will eat up bandwidth.



skyjock41
Shag Diesel
Premium
join:2001-12-11
Patrick Afb, FL

1 recommendation

reply to Wayne99021

said by Wayne99021:

Verizon has also cancelled the accounts of callers who are "extremely abusive" to customer service representatives.
Good to keep that in mind.......you dont want to pay a termination fee for breaking your contract just call up and call the CSR every dirty name in the book. Wonder if that will work with Dish Network........

gentux

join:2004-09-05
Natick, MA
reply to Rick

said by Rick:

Think about it this way. What's a T1 cost? 300~400.00 per month now? And that's just for a 1500k connection.
Thats not just for a 1500K connection. It also includes things like a uptime guarantee (SLA) and available bandwidth guarantee (SLA). The SLA (Service Level Agreement) is what costs you $400 a month.


Mdoc
Ehh... munch munch... what's up, Doc?
Premium
join:2007-03-27
Sterling, VA
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to mike34

Disregard... reply was to the 1st page of this thread.