Anon | reply to sadowski
Re: Residentail customers are a drain on resources My comments about residential customers are neither untrue or insulting. It is a simple fact. If you have a large customer base of residential customers you had better set aside a whole pot of money to provide 24 * 7 tech support who are going to be used to breaking point and be prepared to deal with the complete spectrum of intellects and abilities. It is also a fact that if you deal with purely business customers your financial return is greater and your costs to support that customer are less than those for residential.
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"I said it was impossible, I didn't say I couldn't do it" |
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 sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY
| Business customers cost more to support since they require more personal and often on-site attention - they are simply charged more. The fact is MOST residential people NEVER contact customer support unless there is a problem.
In any event, it is the ISPs responsibility to service those residential customers at the contracted price. That is their business responsibility and their legal obligation. You can't say 'well, we aren't making enough dollars off them to support them so to hell with them!' They should never have entered into the business if they weren't prepared to accept their responsibility. It's that simple both legally and ethically.
Addendum:
The only reason MegaPath thinks it can get away with this is because it's cocky due to growth. They think they can do anything now. That is a sure sign of poor and stupid management.
[text was edited by author 2000-11-15 15:16:27] |
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| I totally agree with you. I was one of those customers who waited 3 hours just to open a trouble ticket and another week to get any kind of feedback. It is PhoenixDSL/Megapath's responsibility to provide at least a working DSL line. Infact, that responsibility is stated on the contract when I signed up for PhoenixDSL! It is pure and simple, MegaPath felt they can't make money on residential customers and because of their ignorant attitude, they decided to throw them in the trash and left them to fend from themselves. This behavior is just morally wrong and I hope MegaPath gets punished for their lack of customer care.
The comments about residential customers is totally untrue. Except for those few who know nothing about computers and DSL, most subscribers are very knowlegable. And those who doesn't know where the start button is located are very unlikely to get DSL in the first place because they probably don't even know the technology. In fact, I , a residential customer, tried everything to fix my DSL line myself except digging up the wire or visiting the CO.
So clearly, the fault is at MegaPath and I hope they get punished for their behavior. |
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Anon | reply to Anon
Missing the point.... You're missing the point - we're not angry at Phoenix and Megapath because they aren't giving us the bargain of our lives, we're angry because they sold us one thing and are delivering us something else - nothing, in fact. You're probably right about the financial aspects - I don't deny I have my doubts about the business model most of these DSL providers are using. However, Phoenix made the decision to offer DSL at $39 a month to residential costumers AND touted itself as "A new breed of ISP" with excellent support, etc. Now they have failed to live up to that and that is why people are upset.
Oh, and for the record, I don't need support, I just need for the line to work! |
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yazdzikPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
kudos:1 | Dear Friends,
Of course, if a contract is unreasonable, it may be considered void ab initio, and if what people here are saying were true,and that is a big "if," that no company can be expected, rationally, to provide tech support for the technically challenged, for the pittance of thirty-nine dollars a month, one could consider that unreasonable. However, if many, if not most ISPs provide service for thirty-nine to forty-nine dollars per month, it must, as a matter of law, be considered to be a reasonable assumption that it can be so provided. If the ILECs block competition, the dreadful service many of us may receive has another exegesis than fraud in the essence, or fraud in fact. And while the ISP or CLEC, may argue that they cannot meet their promises because of unforeseeable, or uncontrollable circumstances, that makes the contract voidable, on the part of the promisee. If ISP ABC, and CLEC DEF believed that they could survive, and offer service, &c, and discover that their unforeseen costs are far higher that a rational person would have anticipated, the end-user has the right to either enforcement, or redress. If enforcement were impossible, the contract is not, in my opinion, binding.
In short, the factors were far more complex than most could have foreseen, and, I am not sure which view of the law a court might take, but, unless proven otherwise, Megapath is obligated to provide service. Or pay the piper.
All good wishes,
Yazdzik |
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sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | said by yazdzik:
Dear Friends,
Of course, if a contract is unreasonable, it may be considered void ab initio, and if what people here are saying were true,and that is a big "if," that no company can be expected, rationally, to provide tech support for the technically challenged, for the pittance of thirty-nine
Let me tell you about my contacts (or attempts at) with Phoenix:
1) Can you provide DNS for my domain
2) I'd like my 'free webspace'
3) Can't connect to the Cisco rack at the co.
1 - never answered.
2 - never answered.
3 - after 3 hours finally talked to someone. Next day they stopped all telephone communications including voice mail messages. Never answered email sent before and after phone call. Three days later still no service. I called the CLEC who said Phoenix canceled the trouble ticket on my problem. He says by contract he can't tell me more - he laughed and said, "Oh, Phoenix" as he read what they did, and said he sympathised with all of us residential customers. I then FAXed a complaint giving them a time limit and said if it's not fixed or I am not called by x date then the credit issuer will be advised to disallow all further charges from Phoenix. Only then did they call me and did a conference call with the CLEC who immediately found the line was open and arranged for repair. 9 days without service.
Please feel free to tell me where any of my contacts have been unreasonable or inappropriate and how the behaviour of Phoenix can be considered acceptable? 9 days of no service for a problem that took 2 minutes to diagnose. Certainly you agree that that they have an obligation to provide a minimal amount of support staff to handle foreseeable problems, both technical and administrative in nature. And that they must deal with such problems in a timely fashion. I can not imagine anyone arguing that an open line is my problem or responsibility beyond reporting a problem (pr attempting to since they have made damn near impossible) and that they are not obligated to repair such problems as arise through no fault of my own to their equipment whether leased or owned or otherwise under their control. They have, as I said, even prohibited the CLEC from acting on anything I tell them. They have required that all problems be sent in the first instance to them for any action to occur. This is not a legal complexity. They set this up this way. They are obligated to perform or to release us without penalty for their failure to perform.
I appreciate your opinion but I don't want to make this into a general discussion of the responsibilities of a business. This is focused on Phoenix and MegaPath and their current behaviours.Content-Disposition: form-data; name="follow"
on |
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sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | reply to digitalperk
Re: Residentail customers are a drain on resources I agree. I've done support for consumers, business, information providers and web designers and developers, and I can tell you that the people who abuse support are the great minority. Most never contact support and often when people do it's because the service has not made a good effort to notify users of certain things including system status.
I have had death threats and threats of other physical harm from angry users, been called every name in the book, etc. etc. but that's expected and are very infrequent. Most people are very grateful for help. I still do some volunteer support. It has its own rewards in some ways (though I wouldn't want to do it for a living).
And so that we can all be clear, you and I and the others are not complaining about the people (they've all been treated me well when I talked to them and with respect) but about the policies and behaviours of the management that has lead to a complete failure to provide an adequate, even minimal, level of support to residential customers of MegaPath. MegaPath knowingly bought us along with the business customers. They are obligated to support us and they are soley to blame if they do not. |
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 JestocostThe Poodle Bites.
join:2000-10-19
Saint Louis, MO | You make the bed, you lie in it . . . I can completely understand the idea that residential customers require more customer support and provide less revenue. It's a lower margin business that I don't think I'd want to be in at this point.
However, I have to take exception to one of the undercurrents that I detect in some of the posts. There seems to be at least the hint of an attitude that says that the residential customers are to blame and should accept that they are not a priority.
While it may be the reality that residential customers are more work than they're worth, the last time I checked no one came to these ISPs or CLECs and forced them to go into the residential business. I would hope that they evaluated the competitive and economic implications of going into the residential market and made a business decision to take on the challenge with its inherent risks and downsides. If things didn't work out as they had planned or hoped, it's hardly reasonable to blame the customer for their problems.
I realize that that may give some of these entrepreneurs more credit than they are due when it comes to business sense. In the words of Super Chicken, however, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred!" |
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yazdzikPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
kudos:1 | reply to sadowski
Re: Missing the point.... Dear Sadowski,
You are illustrating exactly what I said. I apologise if I was unclear. They must provide what they said they would, unless no reasonable person would expect it. You have the right to enforce your contract. They have lost their right to enforce their early release penalty. Put way too simply, you are right and they are wrong. The question is how to enforce it. I wish I had an answer.
Sincere best wishes,
Martin |
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sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | You weren't unclear, it's just that this discussion of the responsibility of Phoenix/MegaPath has been diminished by what I consider untrue statements about abuses and competencies of the residential user. I want simply to be very clear to others reading these posts that Phoenix/MegaPath business practices are the sole issue here. These practices are ack. in part by Phoenix/MegaPAth themselves. The introduction by another person here of the so-called incompotent and illiterate residential user is unfounded and distracting. |
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Anon | reply to Jestocost
Re: You make the bed, you lie in it . . . Because you mentioned Super Chicken you get my vote 
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"I said it was impossible, I didn't say I couldn't do it" |
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JestocostThe Poodle Bites.
join:2000-10-19
Saint Louis, MO | Attention Super Chicken Fans Try this on for size:
http://soundamerica.com/sounds/cartoons/Super_Chicken/charge.wav |
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| reply to sadowski
Re: Missing the point.... I happen to agree with Mr. Sadowski. I am a residential customer with 2 IDSL lines from Phoenix. I don't require any type of support and the only reason I have ever called Phoenix is when the line is not working. The assumption that every residential customer is some sort of gubber that can differentiate their hear from their butt is not true at all. I do computer tech support on-site and I'll tell you I've meet more ignorant folks at workplaces than I do at homes. The difference is that the business folks got to have it working and will pay whatever it takes to get things working. |
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sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | Maybe for those posters who are trying to glorify the business user and denigrate the residential user, we should give them a dose of reality by referring them to the
Shark Tank at ComputerWorld. |
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