Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19051723 en Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:41:49 EDT Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:41:49 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19068614 elvey : Actually, I'm fairly familiar with Gross Profit, Net income, EBITDA, etc, and why different metrics are emphasized at times. I just don't use them on a regular basis.

When you're talking about a regulated monopoly, different metrics are important; the normal metrics are distorted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19068614 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:24:15 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058723 satellite68 :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

So you don't agree with me, but dont come here calling me an idiot because my opinion differs from yours clown.

For every positive you can provide for having universal healthcare I can give you a negative effect on society to the same magnitude. Just as for every other handout that occurs in this country. A vast majority of all problems in every nation is the direct result of "crutching" the nation and it's people from a social and economical standpoint. The laws of nature will prevail. We may be able to slow it down or distort it, but they will prevail. And the greatest law of nature is the process of natural selection whether you like it or not or want to accept it or not.
Spoken like a true turd polisher and/or someone who doesn't have a handicapped or ill relative. Funny how universal health care seems to work just fine outside of our borders. Our system is the most expensive in the world, and we're the fattest pigs on the planet, not to mention with much shorter life spans. Yeah, that's a system I want to continue forever and ever. When will the mantra "it makes money, it must be good!" go away? Natural selection?! WTF is that? Who the fuck appointed you guardian of the universal truth? Why are you annoited as the arbinger of who gets fixed and who doesn't?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058723 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:12:38 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058702 satellite68 :
said by beerbum See Profile :

said by satellite68 See Profile :

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?
it took Commonwealth Telephone (now Frontier) about 1 year to completely wire my city of 80,000+ , and another year to add the northern suburbs.. they have their own telco network which is independent of Verizon..

bottom line it can be done, problem is nobody wants to pay to do it.
Yes, a competing network that has a national footprint will take about one year to build. Sheesh. And I have a bridge to sell you...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058702 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:05:46 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058357 anon : Well it is obvious that you do not understand the regulations concerning the delivery of a local loop by the telcos. The ILECs (Incumbent Local Exchange Carriers, which are at times also RBOCs - Regional Bell Operating Companies) have exclusive access to provide lines in a given area. In exchange for that exclusive access, they are now required to make available those lines to CLECs to encourage competition and innovation. The initial access was considered FCC or special access, ordered through an ASR. That version required the payment by the CLEC for services that weren't needed, such as muxing on top of the line charges. Enter UNEs (unbundled network elements), where only the equipment and line required to deliver the service would need to be charged to the CLEC. UNE lines effectively permit a CLEC to compete in locations that otherwise would fall under a monopoly status.

The problem with a monopoly is that you as the consumer are then unable to switch to someone else to avoid sub-par performance at prime prices. Would you pay top new mercedez-benz prices for a 10 year old crunched up old Kia? I think not, however, prior to the deregulation of the Telecom industry, that is exactly what happened and there was very little that a consumer could do about it. Now there is a choice, you may switch your service to another provider.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19058357 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 04:19:22 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19055716 fiberguy : For EVERY thing in life that is positive I can give you a negative. Want to know what gives you most of the positives and negatives? The people do directly. I won't go into the lengthly reasons why because it would take an entire disk array here.

However, I take personal exception to anyone that takes the high and mighty route.

Let me pose it to you this way. Do you, I, or any one person or group of people have the ability to perform medical research to the level required in order to sustain their own life? No. At this time, only the government will grant those groups or entities the right or permission to enter into such research.

Health care IS a right in this nation. We don't create the illnesses and other things that affect our lives. Besides all of that, it is one of our basic civil rights that we ALL have in this country; health care.

Please don't confuse natural selection with this topic. We have the ability to cure many different types of illness. We have the ability to make people better after an accident.. When you approach on natural selection, I've got news for you, that's your own opinion and belief system and not everyone subscribes to it.

But beyond that, your post stated: "before they provide blanket healthcare coverage that will simply be consumed by those that for the most part do nothing to deserve it." who are you to determine who did something to "deserve it" or not? I guarantee you that there are people much higher up on the ladder that would say the same thing about you and what you consume versus put into the system.

You step on a very dangerous cliff with your statement.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19055716 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:23:59 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19054871 Skippy25 : So you don't agree with me, but dont come here calling me an idiot because my opinion differs from yours clown.

For every positive you can provide for having universal healthcare I can give you a negative effect on society to the same magnitude. Just as for every other handout that occurs in this country. A vast majority of all problems in every nation is the direct result of "crutching" the nation and it's people from a social and economical standpoint. The laws of nature will prevail. We may be able to slow it down or distort it, but they will prevail. And the greatest law of nature is the process of natural selection whether you like it or not or want to accept it or not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19054871 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:00:45 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051939 Neyland : Even if the Telcos are not getting any government support to build out any more (we'll leave the USF for others) they still generated huge blocks of their existing infrastructure on taxpayer subsidy. Since line sharing on just that infrastructure really isn't feasible (figuring out what's new vs old), perhaps the Telco's should pay the gov back for the amount of subsidy received plus any additional revenue generated off of the infrastructure where they didn't achieve the promised service levels.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051939 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:09:38 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051723 inteller : THAT is horseshit. Are you so naive to think that RBOCs don't operate in rural areas? They get TONS of USF money.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051723 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:11:34 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051174 batterup :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

But then again I am one that would declare all networks should be confiscated .
Thank you Hugo Chavez, we all know communism works. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051174 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:39:47 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051130 batterup :
said by cwire See Profile :

while talking to a local public schools I.T. man, we began discussing the price of the ds-3 that the school system was purchasing from at&t. the price he told me seemed really low to me, so i asked how this could be. he said that the school only pays 25% of it's at&t bill, and the rest of the money, 75% to be exact comes from the usf fund. i don't know if this is how it is set up for all school systems, but that 75% funding seems like it could take a big chunk of usf money.
The USF only goes to the great-unwashed. New Jersey gets ZERO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051130 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:25:13 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051126 batterup :
said by morbo See Profile :

with taxpayer support, of course.
I have 1/2 a brain and know that is TeleLies B.S.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19051126 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:23:44 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049844 Ahrenl :
said by elvey See Profile :

I don't see the word 'profit' in my post.
said by elvey See Profile :

They took in 63 BILLION DOLLARS last year.

They made a gross profit of 28 BILLION DOLLARS last year.

Sheesh.
What you take in is 'revenue'.

Doh. Source: »finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=T
It was there even AFTER you edited out the Trillion dollar statement, which, btw, showed you have no idea what you're talking about since I believe the entire world's annual GDP is only around $50 trillion. Regardless, as I stated, Gross profit is a meaningless metric. Net Income is what you're looking for. Or just revenue. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049844 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:47:16 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049544 fiberguy : Dream on!

Fiber, Skippy, is NEVER going to be a "RIGHT".. Health care, my confused friend, IS a right in this country... it's just POORLY handled right now..

There are just certain things that are only big enough for the government to handle.. health care is one of them. Much of our research, in case people forget, comes from government institutions where the technology is then passed or sold to private companies for advancement (and often killed because the technology would kill their existing profits)

.. none the less, I am embarrassed for you that you'd even make such an idiotic statement that you did.

If and when you get some sort of illness that weakens you to the point you can't work, thus pay your health coverage plan costs, tell us just how well you are doing.. and then tell us again why exactly you don't deserve it.. alright..?
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049544 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:03:26 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049525 fiberguy : Maybe prayer will heal the sick and ill too and some of the science like gene therapy is just evil.. how well is that working for us?

I'd rather have a definite over a maybe when it comes to people having access to health care.

Economics are not going to suddenly grow, or be lead to growth, by installing a nationwide fiber network.. sorry, that only happens on techie dream blogs and in fantasy.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049525 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:00:00 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049483 fiberguy :
said by supergirl See Profile :

SD6 - funny the cable analogy wasn't acknowleged. If cable doesn't have to do it, why do the telcos?
Why? Cable paid for their infrustructure with private funds. Telephone was not 100% private funds. People love to talk about how cable was able to 'negotiate' an exclusive deal (most people forget the word NEGOTIATE) however, phone was always granted a monopoly and then partially funded.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049483 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:54:31 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049298 anon :
The routing was difficult to setup, but it got you 5 static IPs that you could route however you wanted on your LAN!
Sorry, that's right, you could use a third party, but for most people it was difficult enough that it wasn't worth all the added effort and using the Telocity issued modem made sense.

The point is that there weren't massive numbers of people signing up and canceling service with Bellsouth in order to get a free modem to use with Telocity. Telocity provided modems to their users.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19049298 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:30:06 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048698 beerbum :
said by satellite68 See Profile :

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?
it took Commonwealth Telephone (now Frontier) about 1 year to completely wire my city of 80,000+ , and another year to add the northern suburbs.. they have their own telco network which is independent of Verizon..

bottom line it can be done, problem is nobody wants to pay to do it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048698 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:42:27 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048582 Richard B : I think you are referring to the E-Rate that was to subsides internet services to schools and Libraries not Private homes. It seems it was pushed under the guise of universal service. The problem was the money ended up being wasted by the bureaucracy like the school spent $500,000 system that more needed by a major corporation rather than a school and had spent another $500,000 for support and training when a cheep solution that cold had met the schools need could been bought for $50,000]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048582 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:24:14 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048537 elvey : I don't see the word 'profit' in my post.

What you take in is 'revenue'.

Doh. Source: »finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=T]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048537 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:16:23 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048236 nklb :
said by StickToTheFacts :

Using a third party modem with Telocity did not work.
Not true! I had Telocity almost from the beginning of their existence and all the way through the DirectTV acquisition, and you COULD use an alternative modem.

I used a plain copper mountain SDSL bridge modem connected to a linux box for routing and server hosting. The routing was difficult to setup, but it got you 5 static IPs that you could route however you wanted on your LAN!

That was the best connection I ever had, 768k SDSL. Not as fast to download large files as my junky comcast connection is now, but I would trade back for it in a heartbeat. So much more reliable, so much better performing with high numbers of connections, and it never once went down due to an outage.
--
for all your Linux questions]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19048236 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:32:01 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047745 cwire : while talking to a local public schools I.T. man, we began discussing the price of the ds-3 that the school system was purchasing from at&t. the price he told me seemed really low to me, so i asked how this could be. he said that the school only pays 25% of it's at&t bill, and the rest of the money, 75% to be exact comes from the usf fund. i don't know if this is how it is set up for all school systems, but that 75% funding seems like it could take a big chunk of usf money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047745 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:25:11 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047478 Ahrenl : 2006
AT&T net sales: $63B (as in billion)
Op Inc: $10B
Net Inc: $7.356B

Gross profit is a meaningless statistic. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047478 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:42:58 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047409 anon : Please provide a link that shows ATT had a 28 TRILLION dollar profit ?

Are you sure you didn't mean BILLION? And even then, 28 Billion in profits is suspect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047409 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:33:26 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047392 anon :
said by SD6 See Profile :

Ahh, another unfortunate ignorant caught in the clutches of Teletruth. Their complaint was thrown out of court and they have been debunked. The claims just get more and more grandiose with time...
Doesn't change the fact that certain Bell companies promised one thing and failed to deliver it...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047392 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:30:07 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047379 anon :
said by supergirl See Profile :

Telocity was around for about 3 minutes and 45 seconds. It's customers ordered DSL from BellSouth for the free modems then switched to Telocity. I wonder if that was Telocity's idea or a way not to pay Telocity for a modem since they didn't give them away ("A modem is $300 but you could order BellSouth DSL and get a free modem and always just switch to us"). So, BellSouth eventually went back and nailed those folks for $200-300 for the modems.
Okay, let's stick to the facts here...

1. Telocity provided modems to their customers at no cost.
2. Telocity modems were designed and provisioned BY TELOCITY at their office, so in order to use Telocity, you needed to use a Telocity modem. Using a third party modem with Telocity did not work.
3. Please provide proof that Telocity customers ordered Bellsouth services for the modems and then switched to Telocity where the Bellsouth provided modem would do no good (see #2).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047379 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:27:50 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047348 SD6 : Ahh, another unfortunate ignorant caught in the clutches of Teletruth. Their complaint was thrown out of court and they have been debunked. The claims just get more and more grandiose with time... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047348 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:22:29 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047315 elvey : Umm... AT&T is a government authorized and protected monopoly. If that isn't government support, I don't know what is.

They took in 63 BILLION DOLLARS last year.

They made a gross profit of 28 BILLION DOLLARS last year.

Sheesh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047315 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:18:11 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047296 nasadude :
said by SD6 See Profile :

[The telcos don't have to share their recent deployments...
that's because the FCC was successfully lobbied by Verizon to exempt fiber from sharing reqts. And a little bit of "we won't build it if you don't exempt it" threats.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047296 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:14:40 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047276 elvey : True!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047276 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:11:50 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047179 King P :
said by SD6 See Profile :

said by King P See Profile :

If you remember, the 1996 telecom act also gave the Telcos BILLIONS of dollars with which they were to have FIBER OPTICS laid to every home in their footprint by 2004. Well, its 2007 and where's my fiber line to my house?
Just in case there is anybody out there who might be tempted to believe/repeat this, it is SOOOO untrue.
»www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm···isid=186

There...is that clear enough for you?

*edit* oh and here's more:
Pennsylvania: Teletruth Files 'Broadband Fraud' Complaint

»www.lightreading.com/document.as···id=46736
--
Forget 'em, Support the Indies.
»www.ind-music.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19047179 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:55:28 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046902 morbo :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Well I don't think health care is any more of a right than fiber and I personally would like to see them build a nationwide fiber network that would be purchased by the people consuming it before they provide blanket healthcare coverage that will simply be consumed by those that for the most part do nothing to deserve it.
what the hell? what must people do to "deserve" healthcare?

do you not realize that those people without healthcare now still get free healthcare subsidized by taxes and your healthcare costs? plus, the added expense of non-preventative care means it costs more to fix than it would if proper care was taken to begin with.

basically, your statement is really stupid. sorry, no way to sugar coat it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046902 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:12:37 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046866 SD6 :
said by King P See Profile :

If you remember, the 1996 telecom act also gave the Telcos BILLIONS of dollars with which they were to have FIBER OPTICS laid to every home in their footprint by 2004. Well, its 2007 and where's my fiber line to my house?
Just in case there is anybody out there who might be tempted to believe/repeat this, it is SOOOO untrue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046866 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:05:19 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046828 SD6 :
said by supergirl See Profile :

SD6 - funny the cable analogy wasn't acknowleged. If cable doesn't have to do it, why do the telcos?
The telcos don't have to share their recent deployments... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046828 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:59:30 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046800 unoriginal : »www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib···lar.html

The CA Utilities Commission cut the rural fund charge, but then raised the overall monthly service total by 25c/mo instead.

Also "Among those who have lobbied for the reduction or elimination of the surcharges are cable television providers. Since phone companies can use the money for anything they want, the cable companies argue, it could be used to provide competing television services."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046800 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:55:57 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046795 Skippy25 : Well I don't think health care is any more of a right than fiber and I personally would like to see them build a nationwide fiber network that would be purchased by the people consuming it before they provide blanket healthcare coverage that will simply be consumed by those that for the most part do nothing to deserve it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046795 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:55:29 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046744 Skippy25 : They should. But then again I am one that would declare all networks should be confiscated (since they were built with tax money or profits based on government protection regardless of time) and one fiber network that runs every where that any service provider can lease to gain access to any customer that wants any service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046744 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:47:50 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046736 Sammer :
said by supergirl See Profile :

Personally, I think with 45-50 million people without health care in America and an other 40-50 million with marginal health care the Congress has better things to do then build a nationwide fiber network.
Maybe a nationwide fiber network would lead to enough economic growth to help pay for the health care of those 100 million people.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046736 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:46:58 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046702 King P : I beg to differ Supergirl. If you remember, the 1996 telecom act also gave the Telcos BILLIONS of dollars with which they were to have FIBER OPTICS laid to every home in their footprint by 2006. Well, its 2007 and where's my fiber line to my house?

The telco's continue to get support from the government. You don't have to look any further than Chairman Martin at the FCC. The man is so obviously pro-telco that its sickening. The government may not necessarily dole out cash to them anymore, but look at all of the ridiculous fees that they allow these companies to tack on to our bills!
--
Forget 'em, Support the Indies.
»www.ind-music.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046702 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:41:51 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046694 supergirl : SD6 - funny the cable analogy wasn't acknowleged. If cable doesn't have to do it, why do the telcos?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046694 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:41:12 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046673 morbo : i agree that telcos aren't getting the taxpayer support that they once did. however, once the nationwide network has been built, it costs a fraction to maintain it. hence, taxpayer money went to build a monopoly.

what needs to happen is that the lines/pipes need to be neutral----ripped from the arms of AT&T and ilk, and then true competition will flourish by the company that can best provide service. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046673 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:38:07 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046668 SD6 : I agree with most of what you say, except...

said by supergirl See Profile :

Hate to say it, but the Telcos are really not getting any government support to build-out anymore. The investments the Telcos have made really since the breakup of AT&T came from their own bottom line.
The line sharing ruling is only for the copper lines, which were deployed before the AT&T breakup.

said by supergirl See Profile :

Line sharing just doesn't work. If you think it does then how about this: K-Mart is having a tough time against WalMart so WalMart has to lease an aisle in a WalMart store just so K-Mart doesn't have to build its own. Or, GM has to allow some factory time so Ford can build a few cars.
Bad analogy. Stores and factories are private assets. Line sharing is predicated on the existence of public assets, public subsidies, or deeding of public ROW. Whether or not that should be done is a matter of public policy and debate, but your analogy is really bad.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046668 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:37:42 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046664 nasadude :
said by supergirl See Profile :

Hate to say it, but the Telcos are really not getting any government support to build-out anymore. ...
they don't need govt support, they are f*ing monopolies. How did they become monopolies? Govt support.

the really maddening thing is that in Japan and France, the CLECs, that became successful because of line sharing, now have enough capitol to start building their own infrastructure, such as fiber.

If competitors are not given a chance to share last mile infrastructure, we will NEVER get a competitive market in the U.S.

as for telcos losing money on UNE-P, I posit that's a big line of BS from the telcos. It's so difficult to determine exactly what telco costs are because of shifty accounting and other tricks.

As it is now, the U.S. is likely stuck with the current monopoly/duopoly situation for the next several years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046664 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:36:17 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046656 supergirl :
said by knightmb See Profile :

said by satellite68 See Profile :

waiting for it...

the usual cries of "they built it, they should (fill in the blank) or whatever carte blance reasons given for the free marketeers positions...

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?
I don't want thousands of wires hung everywhere for competing service. At the same time, given how much the public has put into this with $$$, it should open to anyone willing to provide and compete the service. It's bad enough that we have to string cable and phone line everywhere. I remember reading back in the 20th century of how fiber was going to help change that. Bury fiber everywhere, make it public so that any company that has the equipment and financial backing to support a service can use it to provide a service and let the free market keep prices low with competition.
Personally, I think with 45-50 million people without health care in America and an other 40-50 million with marginal health care the Congress has better things to do then build a nationwide fiber network.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046656 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:34:27 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046628 supergirl :
said by ke4pym See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

Hate to say it, but the Telcos are really not getting any government support to build-out anymore.
Really? What would you call the Universal Service Fee? Sure, it might not be line-itemed as build-out but they're getting gobs of government support at our expense.
The USF goes to rural carriers not the RBOCs. If the Bells get any of it, it is very little. Forbes Magazine called the USF and outright ripoff that made rural carriers rich at the expense of everyone with a Bell. Forbes called for an end to the USF since the rural carriers were using the money for anything but telephone service including even building out cell and HSI networks. The money freed up so much cash at one rural teleco the telco refunded an entire year of charges to ALL its customers.

The Bells did complain that they should get some of the USF for their rural areas but not sure if they did.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046628 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:29:34 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046594 ke4pym :
said by supergirl See Profile :

Hate to say it, but the Telcos are really not getting any government support to build-out anymore.
Really? What would you call the Universal Service Fee? Sure, it might not be line-itemed as build-out but they're getting gobs of government support at our expense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046594 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:22:58 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046572 supergirl : Hate to say it, but the Telcos are really not getting any government support to build-out anymore. The investments the Telcos have made really since the breakup of AT&T came from their own bottom line.

Line sharing was a loser for the Telcos because the worthless 1996 Telecom Act implemented UNE-P, which made the Telcos sell at below even what they could recover on costs--losing about $7 a line so some half-witted CLEC could sell phone service. Even the bigger CLECs still cost them that $7 per line vs. what it cost to maintain it.

Sure, the Telcos get ROWs and so forth but not anything near what they were used to getting 30 years ago.

Even with UNE-P a lot of CLECs, including COVAD, went bankrupt. Telocity was around for about 3 minutes and 45 seconds. It's customers ordered DSL from BellSouth for the free modems then switched to Telocity. I wonder if that was Telocity's idea or a way not to pay Telocity for a modem since they didn't give them away ("A modem is $300 but you could order BellSouth DSL and get a free modem and always just switch to us"). So, BellSouth eventually went back and nailed those folks for $200-300 for the modems.

Line sharing just doesn't work. If you think it does then how about this: K-Mart is having a tough time against WalMart so WalMart has to lease an aisle in a WalMart store just so K-Mart doesn't have to build its own. Or, GM has to allow some factory time so Ford can build a few cars. Line sharing in any other business is stupid especially since Cable doesn't have to line share their telephony service.

If you impose line sharing on the Telcos, then Cable has to have it to on both HSI and Phone Service.

I would like to see real law make the Telcos and Cable tell me exactly where all those damn fees go to not the bulls&&t language that is there now.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046572 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:19:11 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046492 knightmb :
said by satellite68 See Profile :

waiting for it...

the usual cries of "they built it, they should (fill in the blank) or whatever carte blance reasons given for the free marketeers positions...

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?
I don't want thousands of wires hung everywhere for competing service. At the same time, given how much the public has put into this with $$$, it should open to anyone willing to provide and compete the service. It's bad enough that we have to string cable and phone line everywhere. I remember reading back in the 20th century of how fiber was going to help change that. Bury fiber everywhere, make it public so that any company that has the equipment and financial backing to support a service can use it to provide a service and let the free market keep prices low with competition.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046492 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:07:56 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046462 Jodokast96 :
said by satellite68 See Profile :

waiting for it...

the usual cries of "they built it, they should (fill in the blank) or whatever carte blance reasons given for the free marketeers positions...

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?
That's not even the point. The problem in this country is that someone shouldn't have to build a second redundant and mostly useless network to transport the same medium. Either the government builds and owns the lines or makes sure others have access to the "private" ones at a fair price. Sorry, but this nonsense of "it's ours" that is part of the national infrastructure is getting ridiculous. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046462 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:02:38 EDT Re: waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046443 morbo : with taxpayer support, of course.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046443 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:00:02 EDT waiting for the other shoe to fall... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046290 satellite68 : waiting for it...

the usual cries of "they built it, they should (fill in the blank) or whatever carte blance reasons given for the free marketeers positions...

Let's see how long it takes someone to build a competing network. Say, a hundred years?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19046290 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:28:10 EDT