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Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Contradicting rulings ?

I already posted this same question over at AVS but here goes:

As part of the FCC's analog shutoff, it's my understanding that cable companies can't "degrade" the digital OTA signals, i.e. compress them to use less bandwidth, change the resolution (in turn reducing bandwidth). Yet this ruling says they can convert a digital signal to an analog signal and that's not considered a degradation ?? Without reading the full details, does this 3-year timeframe give them a "waiver" until 2012 ?

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

said by Hall:

I already posted this same question over at AVS but here goes:

As part of the FCC's analog shutoff, it's my understanding that cable companies can't "degrade" the digital OTA signals, i.e. compress them to use less bandwidth, change the resolution (in turn reducing bandwidth).
That interpretation is not completely accurate. The key to the ruling is the phrase "material degradation". That doesn't mean that no compression can take place. It only means that the visual result can't be materially degraded. The question then becomes who determines if it has been materially degraded? The cable company or the broadcaster and then who decides if they disagree. My guess is that compression will happen and the cable company will force the broadcaster to file a FCC complaint if they don't like it.

Here is what FCC Commissioner McDowell had to say on this subject:
We do not adopt the “all content bits” proposal upon which we sought comment. In my opinion, our decision strikes the appropriate balance between ensuring that broadcast signals are not materially degraded and permitting cable operators to use their technology efficiently to produce both high quality video and highspeed broadband offerings for consumers. The standard we reaffirm today will permit cable operators to take advantage of technological innovations, such as switched digital and advanced compression technologies, to continue providing service to consumers with greater efficiency.
Bobcat79
Premium Member
join:2001-02-04

Bobcat79 to Hall

Premium Member

to Hall
said by Hall:

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.
Nope. There are a lot of us people receiving cable TV without boxes. I get approx 70 analog channels. If my cable company makes me pay for a box, I might as well switch to FIOS!

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

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Another contradiction is that the FCC granted set top waiver requests to some MSO's who guaranteed to go all digital by 2009. Now they are saying that MSO's must still provide the Must Carry channels in an analog format? Ok, which will it be FCC?

Anyway, in most area's there are only 20 or less must carry channels. 20 Analogs sure take a lot less space than the 77 or so we are carrying today.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Bobcat79

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to Bobcat79
said by Bobcat79:
said by Hall:

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.
Nope. There are a lot of us people receiving cable TV without boxes. I get approx 70 analog channels. If my cable company makes me pay for a box, I might as well switch to FIOS!

Well that is going to end. And if you have 6 TVs, they are not going to give you 6 free STBs. A couple of them tops for free. After that you pay. Don't like it, go to Fios - but you will still pay extra for extra TVs.
Bobcat79
Premium Member
join:2001-02-04

Bobcat79

Premium Member

said by FFH5:
said by Bobcat79:
said by Hall:

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.
Nope. There are a lot of us people receiving cable TV without boxes. I get approx 70 analog channels. If my cable company makes me pay for a box, I might as well switch to FIOS!

Well that is going to end. And if you have 6 TVs, they are not going to give you 6 free STBs. A couple of them tops for free.
Cablevision never gave anyone anything for free. Their company policy is to screw their customers.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5 to cypherstream

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to cypherstream
said by cypherstream:

Now they are saying that MSO's must still provide the Must Carry channels in an analog format? Ok, which will it be FCC?
Actually, they are not saying that. They are saying they must take care of analog customers. See my earlier post on this topic for an explanation:
»Key to Analog decision is who pays
See option no 2.
SD6
join:2005-03-26
Pittsburgh, PA

SD6

Member

said by FFH5:

said by cypherstream:

Now they are saying that MSO's must still provide the Must Carry channels in an analog format? Ok, which will it be FCC?
Actually, they are not saying that. They are saying they must take care of analog customers. See my earlier post on this topic for an explanation:
»Key to Analog decision is who pays
See option no 2.
I agree, the news item appears to incorrectly state that both analog and digital must be carried, when that is not the case.
whocares0
Premium Member
join:2003-07-26
..

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Re: heres more

New FCC ruling: No need for a new digital TV yet

WASHINGTON — The Federal Communications Commission approved rules Tuesday night that it says will ensure that millions of cable subscribers will still be able to watch broadcast programming after the digital television transition in 2009.
The FCC says approximately 40 million households are analog-only cable subscribers. Tuesday's ruling will require cable operators to guarantee analog cable customers will receive broadcast channels until February 2012.
Meanwhile, on the sixth anniversary of the terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington, the commission also approved new rules that will allow police and firefighters to better locate cell phone callers who dial 911 in an emergency.
The meeting, originally scheduled for 8:30 a.m. CDT, was delayed for more than 11 hours as commissioners and staff hammered out compromises to the cable order and other items.
While the greatest impact of the digital television transition will be on viewers of non-digital televisions who receive their signals over the air, non-digital cable subscribers have also been a concern to the commission.
Beginning Feb. 18, 2009, broadcasters will stop transmitting old-style analog signals to over-the-air customers and to cable companies. Over-the-air customers will have to buy a converter box.
As for the nation's analog cable subscribers, cable operators must either convert the digital signal to analog at the point where the cable signal originates or supply customers with a "down converter" device that will change digital signals to analog at the TV set.
The cable industry pledged to do this voluntarily and launched a $200 million advertising campaign last week to reassure subscribers. The new FCC rules make compliance mandatory.
The FCC will also allow for certain smaller cable systems to request a waiver.
In other action, the agency voted to force cell phone companies to employ a much stricter geographic standard when testing the ability of rescue workers to locate callers in distress.
People who call 911 from a wired telephone can be traced to specific addresses. That's not the case with cell phones.
Carriers are required to test their location systems and be able to pinpoint callers within certain distances. But they have been allowed to test their equipment over their entire national service areas, meaning good results in one region may skew the average.
The Association of Public Safety Communications Officials International has lobbied the agency to force carriers to measure location accuracy at the community level or "public safety answering point" level.
In the face of stiff opposition from cell carriers, the commission opted to phase in the new requirement over the next five years.

hou paper

i'am glad i have always had satellite tv

matcarl
Premium Member
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

matcarl to Hall

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to Hall

Re: Contradicting rulings ?

said by Hall:

I already posted this same question over at AVS but here goes:
As part of the FCC's analog shutoff, it's my understanding that cable companies can't "degrade" the digital OTA signals, i.e. compress them to use less bandwidth, change the resolution (in turn reducing bandwidth). Yet this ruling says they can convert a digital signal to an analog signal and that's not considered a degradation ?? Without reading the full details, does this 3-year timeframe give them a "waiver" until 2012 ?
It's the "high definition" signal they are talking about, not the standard ones

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to Hall

Premium Member

to Hall
said by Hall:

As part of the FCC's analog shutoff, it's my understanding that cable companies can't "degrade" the digital OTA signals, i.e. compress them to use less bandwidth, change the resolution (in turn reducing bandwidth).
LOL!
know anyone with DTV? that is digital and both overcompressed and downrezzed.
dvd536

dvd536 to Bobcat79

Premium Member

to Bobcat79
said by Bobcat79:
said by Hall:

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.
Nope. There are a lot of us people receiving cable TV without boxes. I get approx 70 analog channels. If my cable company makes me pay for a box, I might as well switch to FIOS!
FIOS is available to you and you don't have it?

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to matcarl

MVM

to matcarl
said by matcarl:

It's the "high definition" signal they are talking about, not the standard ones
No, it's not. The FCC doesn't get involved in anything HD related. They deal with analog vs digital only.

matcarl
Premium Member
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

1 edit

matcarl

Premium Member

said by Hall:

said by matcarl:

It's the "high definition" signal they are talking about, not the standard ones
No, it's not. The FCC doesn't get involved in anything HD related. They deal with analog vs digital only.
Here's the quote from the FCC, it's the HD signal like I said. They are talking about local broadcast "HD" signals!

While the item provides cable operators with flexibility, the FCC reaffirmed the requirement that cable systems must carry high definition (“HD”) broadcast signals in HD format and reaffirmed its current material degradation standard. Cable operators must carry broadcast signals so that the picture quality is at least as good as the quality of any other programming carried on the system.
Bobcat79
Premium Member
join:2001-02-04

1 edit

Bobcat79 to dvd536

Premium Member

to dvd536
said by dvd536:

said by Bobcat79:
said by Hall:

I always thought the cable companies would try and go all-digital right around the same time as broadcast and just use the FCC's ruling as an excuse.
Nope. There are a lot of us people receiving cable TV without boxes. I get approx 70 analog channels. If my cable company makes me pay for a box, I might as well switch to FIOS!
FIOS is available to you and you don't have it?
No, it's not available. And I probably wouldn't switch unless it was cheaper than my $48 analog cable with no boxes. I'd keep my POTS, DSL, and cable unless it would reduce my bills.