grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | reply to compton
Re: If you cap it,they will download it
Because if the Supreme Court says so it must be true. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Hehe
said by Hehe :
My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing?
If I manually fast forward, am I stealing?
YOU TERRORIST!!
j/k 
Well sorta. Seriously, I think there are some types who think like that.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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compton
join:2002-02-08
Brooklyn, NY
| reply to Sammer
said by Sammer  :said by Corehhi : What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch. A Supreme Court ruling (Disney vs. Betamax) is the difference between taping the shows off the air for your own personal use and getting them off the internet. Since NBC charges sponsors when it airs reruns (admittedly less) it would certainly argue that there is replay value. You are correct. Taping a show for your own personal use is legal. If you share that show over the Internet then you are no longer using it for personal use; therefore, you are breaking the copyright agreement. Also, stripping out the commercials are illegal. There was a law that passed about 3 years ago making it illegal for DVD and VCR recorders sold in the United States to have the ability to skip commercials when recording. They can have features that can skip over the commercials when fast forwarding, but they can't bypass the recording of those commercials. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general. I understood exactly what you had to say. So did karlmarx. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ | reply to ross
I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post. As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action. Absolutely not! You took issue with karlmarx, who was taking issue with x544348, who was taking issue with swhx7, who was questioning Chiyo.
I was taking issue with you for the reason I stated. That is why I clicked on your post reply box, not anyone else's.
The point was no one was talking about anything but TV, until you tried to introduce "software, games, music, and so on", which was irrelevant to karlmarx's reply to x544348. You then attributed the addition of software, games, etc. to x544348 by inference; "I am pretty sure he (emphasis added) was talking about the latter."-Nightfall
The discussion was/is about broadcast TV programs downloaded off the net...and I agree with karlmarx, not with x544348, and so, apparently, do you. So why your off-topic reference to illegal downloading of software, games, etc., muddying the waters? Either you had an agenda, or you weren't paying attention. Either way, your remarks re illegal "software, games, music, and so on", were irrelevant, and only served to obfuscate the points so aptly summarized by karlmarx.
Sorry you took umbrage... |
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lrtc
join:2004-06-05
Toronto | reply to Hehe
Yes! |
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Hehe
@ssa.gov | reply to Morac
My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing?
If I manually fast forward, am I stealing? |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong. If the version you downloaded has all the commercials intact I would agree with you, but all downloaded shows (pay or pirated) have the commercials removed. The commercials are what makes the show free. When the commercials are removed it is no longer free and at that point it would be considered stealing.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to ross
said by ross :said by Nightfall :said by karlmarx :But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong. When it comes to television, I agree. When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree. I am pretty sure he was talking about the later. I'm pretty sure x544348 couldn't possibly have been talking about anything but TV, if you are referring to x544348's comment which was a direct reply to Chyo, who was talking about TV. And, Karlmarx certainly wasn't talking about "software, games, music, and son on". You are the only one talking about "software, games, music, and son on", as far as I can see. Try to pay attention! You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post.
As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to Thaler
said by Thaler :said by Nightfall :To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business. True...but there's two major problems in the marketplace: A.) Pirates *will* always defeat any amount of DRM a company puts forth. B.) The more they DRM up their legit products to counteract the inevitibility of A., they begin impeding with customer's fair use. (ie. see the Bioshock PC-game release fiasco) Basically, these production companies are investing major bucks to effectively piss off their paying customers, and pirates are still getting away with the media they seek to protect. Locks just keep honest people honest. Sticking with some simplistic DRM keeps your average Joe Blow from bootlegging with ease, yet also enables your tech savvy paying customers to still support your venture. DVDs are the penultimate "happy medium" with piracy. They're cheap enough (and loaded with extras) to make piracy trivial to most, yet simple enough to keep the entry-level techie coming back for more. I 100% agree with you. The problem is that I believe that DRM as a whole is a hastle as it is. IMHO, they should do away with it entirely. As you said, pirating has been around as a whole for years and years. There is no stopping it. The only way to reduce it is to make the product affordable, make it widely available, and not protect it.
At the same time though, there has to be stiff penalties for people who are caught pirating. It can't be the 300 pound elephant in the closet that no one talks about because its always going to be around. |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong. Is OTA part really true? I have heard people still get DMCA'ed for sharing full episodes that can be seen and recorded OTA for free. |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  reply to swhx7
I agree w/ swhx7. Downloading it under the table, is usually crappy quality and time consuming.
If it had a decent production value, easy and timely...I would pay for it. |
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davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC
·Comporium
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life. And when is the last time you bought a bottle of water instead of taking and cup and getting "free" water out of the spiggot?
When things come with a value or convenience proposition, people will gladly pay. Just ask Coke and Pepsi who now sell more bottles of water globally than of their respective signature soda.
}Davoice |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :said by karlmarx :But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong. When it comes to television, I agree. When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree. I am pretty sure he was talking about the later. I'm pretty sure x544348 couldn't possibly have been talking about anything but TV, if you are referring to x544348's comment which was a direct reply to Chyo, who was talking about TV. And, Karlmarx certainly wasn't talking about "software, games, music, and son on". You are the only one talking about "software, games, music, and son on", as far as I can see. Try to pay attention! |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to Corehhi
said by Corehhi : What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch. A Supreme Court ruling (Disney vs. Betamax) is the difference between taping the shows off the air for your own personal use and getting them off the internet. Since NBC charges sponsors when it airs reruns (admittedly less) it would certainly argue that there is replay value. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl :Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service. Bingo. I'd support more legit distribution services if they weren't starting to load themselves with more useless DRM bloat. Take a look at the continuing Sony DRM fiasco(s). There's no way in hell I'd buy another disc, as I'm not about to jeopardize my computer with their crapware. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business. True...but there's two major problems in the marketplace:
A.) Pirates *will* always defeat any amount of DRM a company puts forth.
B.) The more they DRM up their legit products to counteract the inevitibility of A., they begin impeding with customer's fair use. (ie. see the Bioshock PC-game release fiasco)
Basically, these production companies are investing major bucks to effectively piss off their paying customers, and pirates are still getting away with the media they seek to protect. Locks just keep honest people honest. Sticking with some simplistic DRM keeps your average Joe Blow from bootlegging with ease, yet also enables your tech savvy paying customers to still support your venture.
DVDs are the penultimate "happy medium" with piracy. They're cheap enough (and loaded with extras) to make piracy trivial to most, yet simple enough to keep the entry-level techie coming back for more. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Nightfall
The problem is the blanket use of the word "pirates". Some people are talking about the people who have been doing this for 10-20 years, and will not change. Other's are talking about everyone who has ever or will ever download copyrighted content. Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service. Provided equal quality the content creators have the following potential advantages:
1. Ease of use
2. Ease of locating
3. Ability to distribute
4. No worry of data integrity (Virus/Trojan/etc.)
I've been VERY disappointed with the re-broadcast offering of the major networks. (and I have an HTPC already setup). Thank god I have a DVR, or I would watch 0% of their shows. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to Thaler
said by Thaler :said by TKJunkMail :And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life. But what's the financial harm in this venture? If only 5% of pirates download a high quality, DRM-free, and correctly priced video file...isn't that making more than the whopping 0% of pirated film "losses" that they're getting now? It just really sucks that the people willing to pay for entertainment (ie. their paying customers) get a shoddier product than the bootleggers peddle around for free. I agree with you that these products should be free of DRM and such protection. There has to be a competitive price point by the makers of music, games, and movies to make it worthwhile to purchase.
I remember when DVD movies were being ripped and distributed on P2P. DVDs were very reasonably priced and had a ton of extras. People were saying that the MPAA were doing something right by including a lot of extras in their product to sell it. Even today, DVDs are doing well with this model.
The problem is that pirates will always feel like they are entitled to something for nothing. Even if the price was just a couple bucks, a lot of pirates would still take it. There has to be stiff penalties in store for people who do break the law in situations like this. To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business. |
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