Re: If you cap it,they will download it in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19074050 en Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:44:20 EDT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:44:20 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077274 grandpinaple : Because if the Supreme Court says so it must be true.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077274 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:33:46 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077169 KrK :
said by Hehe :

My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing?

If I manually fast forward, am I stealing?
YOU TERRORIST!!

j/k :D

Well sorta. Seriously, I think there are some types who think like that.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077169 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:20:42 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077033 compton :
said by Sammer See Profile :

said by Corehhi See Profile :

What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch.
A Supreme Court ruling (Disney vs. Betamax) is the difference between taping the shows off the air for your own personal use and getting them off the internet. Since NBC charges sponsors when it airs reruns (admittedly less) it would certainly argue that there is replay value.
You are correct. Taping a show for your own personal use is legal. If you share that show over the Internet then you are no longer using it for personal use; therefore, you are breaking the copyright agreement. Also, stripping out the commercials are illegal. There was a law that passed about 3 years ago making it illegal for DVD and VCR recorders sold in the United States to have the ability to skip commercials when recording. They can have features that can skip over the commercials when fast forwarding, but they can't bypass the recording of those commercials. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19077033 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:03:52 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075987 ross :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general.
I understood exactly what you had to say. So did karlmarx.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075987 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:00:43 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075797 TK Junk Mail : I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075797 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:26:54 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075792 ross :
said by Nightfall See Profile :

You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post.

As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action.
Absolutely not! You took issue with karlmarx, who was taking issue with x544348, who was taking issue with swhx7, who was questioning Chiyo.

I was taking issue with you for the reason I stated. That is why I clicked on your post reply box, not anyone else's.

The point was no one was talking about anything but TV, until you tried to introduce "software, games, music, and so on", which was irrelevant to karlmarx's reply to x544348. You then attributed the addition of software, games, etc. to x544348 by inference; "I am pretty sure he (emphasis added) was talking about the latter."-Nightfall

The discussion was/is about broadcast TV programs downloaded off the net...and I agree with karlmarx, not with x544348, and so, apparently, do you. So why your off-topic reference to illegal downloading of software, games, etc., muddying the waters? Either you had an agenda, or you weren't paying attention. Either way, your remarks re illegal "software, games, music, and so on", were irrelevant, and only served to obfuscate the points so aptly summarized by karlmarx.

Sorry you took umbrage...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075792 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:25:16 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075597 lrtc : Yes!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075597 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:46:50 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075113 anon : My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing?

If I manually fast forward, am I stealing?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19075113 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:57:16 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074949 Morac :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
If the version you downloaded has all the commercials intact I would agree with you, but all downloaded shows (pay or pirated) have the commercials removed. The commercials are what makes the show free. When the commercials are removed it is no longer free and at that point it would be considered stealing.
--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074949 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:50:28 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074935 Nightfall :
said by ross See Profile :

said by Nightfall See Profile :

said by karlmarx See Profile :

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.
I'm pretty sure x544348 couldn't possibly have been talking about anything but TV, if you are referring to x544348's comment which was a direct reply to Chyo, who was talking about TV. And, Karlmarx certainly wasn't talking about "software, games, music, and son on". You are the only one talking about "software, games, music, and son on", as far as I can see. Try to pay attention!
You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post.

As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074935 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:47:43 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074922 Nightfall :
said by AquaBlaze See Profile :

said by Nightfall See Profile :

To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.
True...but there's two major problems in the marketplace:

A.) Pirates *will* always defeat any amount of DRM a company puts forth.

B.) The more they DRM up their legit products to counteract the inevitibility of A., they begin impeding with customer's fair use. (ie. see the Bioshock PC-game release fiasco)

Basically, these production companies are investing major bucks to effectively piss off their paying customers, and pirates are still getting away with the media they seek to protect. Locks just keep honest people honest. Sticking with some simplistic DRM keeps your average Joe Blow from bootlegging with ease, yet also enables your tech savvy paying customers to still support your venture.

DVDs are the penultimate "happy medium" with piracy. They're cheap enough (and loaded with extras) to make piracy trivial to most, yet simple enough to keep the entry-level techie coming back for more.
I 100% agree with you. The problem is that I believe that DRM as a whole is a hastle as it is. IMHO, they should do away with it entirely. As you said, pirating has been around as a whole for years and years. There is no stopping it. The only way to reduce it is to make the product affordable, make it widely available, and not protect it.

At the same time though, there has to be stiff penalties for people who are caught pirating. It can't be the 300 pound elephant in the closet that no one talks about because its always going to be around.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074922 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:44:12 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074823 antdude :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
Is OTA part really true? I have heard people still get DMCA'ed for sharing full episodes that can be seen and recorded OTA for free.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074823 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:28:46 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074783 TechieZero : I agree w/ swhx7. Downloading it under the table, is usually crappy quality and time consuming.

If it had a decent production value, easy and timely...I would pay for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074783 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:20:33 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074668 davoice :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.
And when is the last time you bought a bottle of water instead of taking and cup and getting "free" water out of the spiggot?

When things come with a value or convenience proposition, people will gladly pay. Just ask Coke and Pepsi who now sell more bottles of water globally than of their respective signature soda.

}Davoice]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074668 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:04:06 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074540 ross :
said by Nightfall See Profile :

said by karlmarx See Profile :

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.
I'm pretty sure x544348 couldn't possibly have been talking about anything but TV, if you are referring to x544348's comment which was a direct reply to Chyo, who was talking about TV. And, Karlmarx certainly wasn't talking about "software, games, music, and son on". You are the only one talking about "software, games, music, and son on", as far as I can see. Try to pay attention!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074540 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:40:37 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074509 Sammer :
said by Corehhi See Profile :

What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch.
A Supreme Court ruling (Disney vs. Betamax) is the difference between taping the shows off the air for your own personal use and getting them off the internet. Since NBC charges sponsors when it airs reruns (admittedly less) it would certainly argue that there is replay value.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074509 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:32:18 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074380 AquaBlaze :
said by Ahrenl See Profile :

Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service.
Bingo. I'd support more legit distribution services if they weren't starting to load themselves with more useless DRM bloat. Take a look at the continuing Sony DRM fiasco(s). There's no way in hell I'd buy another disc, as I'm not about to jeopardize my computer with their crapware.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074380 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:08:49 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074369 AquaBlaze :
said by Nightfall See Profile :

To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.
True...but there's two major problems in the marketplace:

A.) Pirates *will* always defeat any amount of DRM a company puts forth.

B.) The more they DRM up their legit products to counteract the inevitibility of A., they begin impeding with customer's fair use. (ie. see the Bioshock PC-game release fiasco)

Basically, these production companies are investing major bucks to effectively piss off their paying customers, and pirates are still getting away with the media they seek to protect. Locks just keep honest people honest. Sticking with some simplistic DRM keeps your average Joe Blow from bootlegging with ease, yet also enables your tech savvy paying customers to still support your venture.

DVDs are the penultimate "happy medium" with piracy. They're cheap enough (and loaded with extras) to make piracy trivial to most, yet simple enough to keep the entry-level techie coming back for more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074369 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:06:38 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074317 jc100 : Pretty much. Piracy has been around since the Cassette Player and VCR. People would put a piece of tape over the copyright part and dub one for their friend. With the advent of the VCR, one could record their favorite shows and edit out commercials. Sure, these were the rudimentary days of the 1980s where each copy meant worse and worse quality. I remember watching movies as a kid that were 2nd and 3rd generation VHS. Granted, in the 1980's, quality didn't mean digital and we used rabbit ears. Anyone who was a kid in the 1980s or before knows exactly what I'm talking about. The problem arises now that copies don't degrade each go around. Digital means the first or the 100th are the same. So what does one do? My opinion, the industries need to embrace piracy vs fight it. For example, we all can record t.v. shows whether through tivo or dvr. Hence, to charge people for this content is ludicrous. Therefore, I believe that the T.V. industry should adopt sort of a blind eye policy. In this respect, they will not pursue people who do not disseminate their property. If someone pirates their t.v. show, they promise not to take legal action as long as the commercials remain in it. While this is not the most ideal solution, it guarantees that those who sponsor their shows still are allotted some face time. My 2 cents. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074317 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:54:51 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074315 Ahrenl : The problem is the blanket use of the word "pirates". Some people are talking about the people who have been doing this for 10-20 years, and will not change. Other's are talking about everyone who has ever or will ever download copyrighted content. Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service. Provided equal quality the content creators have the following potential advantages:
1. Ease of use
2. Ease of locating
3. Ability to distribute
4. No worry of data integrity (Virus/Trojan/etc.)

I've been VERY disappointed with the re-broadcast offering of the major networks. (and I have an HTPC already setup). Thank god I have a DVR, or I would watch 0% of their shows. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074315 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:54:18 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074164 Nightfall :
said by AquaBlaze See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.
But what's the financial harm in this venture? If only 5% of pirates download a high quality, DRM-free, and correctly priced video file...isn't that making more than the whopping 0% of pirated film "losses" that they're getting now?

It just really sucks that the people willing to pay for entertainment (ie. their paying customers) get a shoddier product than the bootleggers peddle around for free.
I agree with you that these products should be free of DRM and such protection. There has to be a competitive price point by the makers of music, games, and movies to make it worthwhile to purchase.

I remember when DVD movies were being ripped and distributed on P2P. DVDs were very reasonably priced and had a ton of extras. People were saying that the MPAA were doing something right by including a lot of extras in their product to sell it. Even today, DVDs are doing well with this model.

The problem is that pirates will always feel like they are entitled to something for nothing. Even if the price was just a couple bucks, a lot of pirates would still take it. There has to be stiff penalties in store for people who do break the law in situations like this. To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074164 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:30:30 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074123 Nightfall :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074123 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:24:41 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074078 AquaBlaze :
said by Corehhi See Profile :

In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch.
Totally agree. There are many recommended TV shows I've seen on the various streaming content outlets online that I would've never picked up on otherwise.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074078 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:15:39 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074050 AquaBlaze :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.
But what's the financial harm in this venture? If only 5% of pirates download a high quality, DRM-free, and correctly priced video file...isn't that making more than the whopping 0% of pirated film "losses" that they're getting now?

It just really sucks that the people willing to pay for entertainment (ie. their paying customers) get a shoddier product than the bootleggers peddle around for free.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074050 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:08:13 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074020 Corehhi : These shows are on TV for free. The fact that you want to watch them at a different time doesn't do anything. I use to work at night and I video taped shows every night. That is legal. What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19074020 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:01:56 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073932 karlmarx : But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073932 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:46:24 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073874 TK Junk Mail :
said by swhx7 See Profile :


Is it the "free" or the "quality and commercial free" that's the most important factor?

I believe that most of the pirates would be willing to pay for legal content if it were high quality, free from DRM, and priced low.
And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073874 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:37:26 EDT Re: If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073684 swhx7 :
said by Chiyo See Profile :

If people can get it for free they will.

Even people I know who aren't the most computer alliterates are pirating TV and enjoying it. They like the quality and commercial free aspect the most.

Is it the "free" or the "quality and commercial free" that's the most important factor?

I believe that most of the pirates would be willing to pay for legal content if it were high quality, free from DRM, and priced low. People would rather be free from the worry about lawsuits and would like to support the studios that make shows they like. The problem is simply that the copyright owners have never offered anything comparable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073684 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:07:11 EDT If you cap it,they will download it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073505 Chiyo : I think it's just a lost cause the tv studios and channels can only do so much. If people can get it for free they will.

Even people I know who aren't the most computer alliterates are pirating TV and enjoying it. They like the quality and commercial free aspect the most.
--
My Blog:
»jaab1.blogspot.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19073505 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:38:32 EDT