Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to dadkins
Re: The (il) legality of blocking ads
said by dadkins  :Crash and burn for all I care! If I don't want to see an ad, *ANY* ad, I won't!  Advertiser response: If you don't want to pay (= see our ad), that's fine, but we'll give you no content.
Now who do you think is going to win?
Forget unsolicited advertising which is strictly a one way street (and should be banned) and focus on advertising appearing on websites.
You act like you are entitled to content. But the sad fact is that you aren't. Instead of ranting, face facts and complain about reducing the amount of ads, getting rid of the obnoxious ones, or making them less intrusive rather than blanket attacks on a revenue stream that isn't going away anytime soon.
I've long believed that the communication business would have two tiers of service, one premium where you pay for content and one free where you accept to see advertising. So are you ready to pay or do you just want to have your cake and eat it too?
It's funny how those that complain here about advertising are probably the same ones who are against file sharing and "illegal" downloads. When websites accuse you of "stealing" their content without viewing their advertising (which they will say is part of their terms of service), what will you say then? I'm entitled to your content because I want it? |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
1 edit | 
Commercial..... WHAT? |
They lose!
I will go elsewhere and get__________!
In your view, if a commercial comes on and I get up and go to the kitchen or bathroom, am I stealing?
Check this out friend!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to Blue2
said by Blue2 :. . You act like you are entitled to content. But the sad fact is that you aren't. Instead of ranting, face facts and complain about reducing the amount of ads, getting rid of the obnoxious ones, or making them less intrusive rather than blanket attacks on a revenue stream that isn't going away anytime soon. . . . . . It's funny how those that complain here about advertising are probably the same ones who are against file sharing and "illegal" downloads. . . . Excuse me????
I don't care to look at ads, and any complaint about ads likely makes me an illegal file sharer??
Am I also likely the one who steals televisions from the Best Buy warehouse because I go take a piss or make a sandwich during the "Law & Order" commercial break?
And actually, I believe signing up with my ISP provider does in fact entitle me to content, yes.
Specifically what content and where it's located could be a matter of debate, I suppose.
Your logic and reasoning in this particular post totally escapes me, sorry.
This seems completely out of left field-- much like this 'blocking ads is illegal' movement itself. |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to EGeezer
I saw what you wrote.
If you don't go to their site, you will probably be prevented from getting the corresponding content that routed you to that ad. You lose.
For now, you can adblock, just like you can zap. But when everyone does this, the content providers will impose a tax, force advertising upon you in another more devious way, or find a different way to make you pay. It's that simple.
Sure, you can get up and walk out of the room but that requires you to take action rather than have an automated technology do this for you. That is a lot more inconvenient for you (not to mention you risk missing the re-start of your content).
I think that it is the use of technological means to stop advertising that will be the point argued about, not whether you personally have the right to walk out of the room or close your eyes/ears. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Do you look at every billboard that you drive past?
Do you read it?
I don't!
Getting up from the couch when a commercial comes on... bathroom is kinda a priority, and a sandwich may be a pleasant addition to my viewing of a program.
Commercial Skip has been around for a while.
I have the ability to do it at the touch of a button for recorded programming.
For live TV, Channel up does wonders! So does Jump.
Name a media type, I'm willing to bet that I can get it elsewhere with NO ADS! NO COMMERCIALS!
Seeing as the ads are paidfor whether people view them or not(Super Bowl ads anyone?) the network is not going to sweat it!
If a website is of any value whatsoever, it will survive.
If the website is nothing but an ad farm - let it die!
What part of "I don't care" don't you understand?
My laptop, my decision on what displays on the screen, right?
Not your's, not some website's - MINE!
Yeah, these laptops are also my TVs, so guess what!
Yeppers! I kill commercials!
Yes! They are ALSO DVRs.
Commercial? do you know what the FFW button does? 
I can, and will block/delete/remove/refuse to display anything, anywhere that I see fit!
NO ONE can force me to do otherwise! Sorry!
Question for you friend:
Do you block popups? Floating banners?
Do you know what is on popups and floating banners? Ads!
You BAD person you!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to AB
said by AB :And actually, I believe signing up with my ISP provider does in fact entitle me to content, yes. Where does it say that in your contract? Sorry, I think you're dead wrong about this unless you've signed up with a content provider such as AOL. You are entitled to bandwidth, nothing more.
said by AB :Excuse me???? I don't care to look at ads, and any complaint about ads likely makes me an illegal file sharer?? I was merely drawing a parallel. Many here say that file sharers should burn and die because what they are doing is illegal. They don't have a right to content that they didn't pay for. It doesn't belong to them. Similarly, websites may also state that the content belongs to them and your "payment" for seeing it is to also see their ads. So if you refuse to their terms, they can argue that you are stealing their content in violation of their terms of service.
Don't believe me? A while back, websites were mirroring the content of other websites in their own frame, less the advertising that appeared on the original website. This led to any number of lawsuits. |
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dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA | reply to EGeezer
The internet has ads???
I must be using the wrong browser..I don't see any ads..:) |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to Blue2
said by Blue2 : said by AB :And actually, I believe signing up with my ISP provider does in fact entitle me to content, yes. Where does it say that in your contract? Sorry, I think you're dead wrong about this unless you've signed up with a content provider such as AOL. You are entitled to bandwidth, nothing more. Of course you're basically right-- they "guarantee" nothing-- yet at the same time there is an implicit agreement that content is available, yes-- otherwise, what need have I of their service to begin with?
And 'content' is referenced many times in the (Verizon) TOS agreement-- for example:
"2.2 Changes to Service. We reserve the right to change any of the features, Content or applications offered as part of the Service at any time with or without notice to you."
"Content offered as part of the Service". Catch that?
And nowhere in there anywhere is there any reference to my being required to view ads in that content which they don't guarantee they can provide, either. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Blue2
Content from ISP?
Hello! Comcast?
FilePlanet account(8mbps service customers)
Rhapsody Radio Plus
ABC News Live Feed
Live Hockey
etc
Yes! That is a nuked ad there on the left! Oh well, huh?
I get other things from other sites(membership has it's privileges) WITHOUT ads and somethings before most people will ever see them.
Porn? OMG! More than you can "shake a stick at"! LOL!
ALL LEGAL!
"Less Than Legal"? Oh yeah, I know a couple of those sites too!
Don't trip friend!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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mers2
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-20
USA
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to EGeezer
Some advertisers are getting smart, they are using subtle advertising methods for movies and television like "product placement", which seems to be quite effective. I'd suggest perhaps internet advertisers look towards development of similar strategies that don't offend the consumer rather than attempting to force users into looking at obnoxious or potentially harmful ads.
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Team Discovery
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Do you look at every billboard that you drive past? Do you read it? I don't! Not the point. The question would be whether you would be allowed to put up an obstruction in the road to prevent the billboard from displaying. This is a legal issue not a misguided simplification of "good" vs "bad" people.
said by dadkins :Seeing as the ads are paidfor whether people view them or not(Super Bowl ads anyone?) the network is not going to sweat it! Wrong. Advertising is based on exposures plain and simple, and the networks do sweat it every day.
said by dadkins :My laptop, my decision on what displays on the screen, right? Not your's, not some website's - MINE! The legal issue will not be whether it is your laptop, but whether you have a right to see the content without its advertising.
said by dadkins :Yeah, these laptops are also my TVs, so guess what! Yeppers! I kill commercials! Yes! They are ALSO DVRs. Commercial? do you know what the FFW button does? No, I was a consultant for Sony during the landmark Supreme Court Betamax case. Please explain it to me. (In case you don't know, this extremely complicated case ended up hinging on Sony's legal argument that taping was "timeshifting" not a way to store content. A brilliant legal argument IMHO.)
said by dadkins :I can, and will block/delete/remove/refuse to display anything, anywhere that I see fit! NO ONE can force me to do otherwise! Sorry! If a dvd has a legal disclaimer/FBI warning on it, do you have the right to disable it? I have no idea, and I hate them. But if you provide disabling instructions, do so at your own risk.
This isn't about "good" vs "evil" or about what you want. It's about legal issues related to media. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| FBI warnings on DVDs(or Blu-ray in my case).
Skip here works.
If it does not work for you, bummer!
Sony VAIOs here. Same Sony that MAKES(produces?) movies and TV.
Yes! I can and do rip/edit/manipulate movies and TV(even Sony movies and shows) *WITH* these Sony laptops - with Sony provided software.
Got irony?
Look friend, address my questions to you:
Do you block popups?
I'm betting yes!
Know what is on popups? Ads!
So, you are blocking ads too... 
Yes! As seen in the previous post of mine, I DO get content FOR FREE(well, I pay for the connection, it has perks).
I can, and will block anything that I wish.
*IF* that means that _____ site folds, oh well! Next!
Since this is my computer, not even you can dictate what I have on the screen!
I block ads.
Sometimes this means(YAY BTW!) that another site with the same ads get blocked. Cool!
If I go to a site, and some ad is blocked - BUT their content still plays... not my concern!
They have it there for anyone to watch.
If *THEIR* implementation allows for the ads to be blocked and yet the content to still be delivered... that's on them!
I don't care!
No, blocking an ad is not stealing!
It is preventing the waste of MY bandwidth!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Do you look at every billboard that you drive past? Do you read it? I don't! the funny part about advertising is you don't have to 'read' it for it to work. You know its there and even if you didn't 'read' it, you likely know what company/product was on that board (even though you didn't read it, which is weird in way), but it develops a sort of brand familiarity which means in the store you are likely to feel that brand is common and hence 'good', such that you will buy it. Advertising is such a subliminal and subconscious game that its really actually unfair to the average dude on the street (interest of social influence is a hobby of mine).
said by dadkins :Getting up from the couch when a commercial comes on... bathroom is kinda a priority, and a sandwich may be a pleasant addition to my viewing of a program. Ever wonder why ads are so much louder then regular TV?
said by dadkins :Commercial Skip has been around for a while. I have the ability to do it at the touch of a button for recorded programming. For live TV, Channel up does wonders! So does Jump. They don't need the whole 30 seconds to burn in brand awareness, so by the time you have touch that button a 'good' ad has made its point. Also you must not buy into the idea of an advertising conspiracy, where mysteriously all the channels seem to show their ads at the same time (hmm I wonder how that happens), which tends to defeat channel surfing to escape the ads.
said by dadkins :Name a media type, I'm willing to bet that I can get it elsewhere with NO ADS! NO COMMERCIALS! How about movies, where companies pay to have product placement in the movie or in some cases part of the plot or action (having James Bond drive a beamer seems to have helped beamer sales for example).
I don't like advertising in general as I think it has gotten too scientific and now almost preys upon people in ways that most people can't defend against, to the point where I think we pretty well have forced consumerism.
Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to dadkins
Look friend, focus on issue.
Do you get that?
I'm betting no!
Know what issue is?
Not whether you look at popups.
Is whether I can market device to remove popups.
You can block anything you wish.
But you have to design method yourself!
Can't legally buy ad-block software
(if the laws we're discussing are passed).
Whether is stealing or not
depends on law, not you!
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Don't start dave, you'll lose. Again!
Hosts?
Is the Hosts file illegal? No!
Does the Hosts file block ads? Pretty sure it does...
Do YOU have a Hosts file? Many people here do!
Some people here WRITE Hosts files.
The issue here is me blocking an ad as being illegal!
No! It is not.
The most popular(?) mechanism was provided by... Microsoft! Hosts file was put there originally by whom dave?
Something, somwhere, at one time or another, has also placed a whole bunch of addresses in my "Restricted Sites" list.
Wasn't me!
Can you identify who did this?
Popups are ads. We ALL block popups!
Since this thread is about the legality(or lack thereof) of blocking ads, we *ALL* are naughty! Even you dave!
LOL!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Wildcatboy
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
Host:
Security Product V..
Security
| reply to EGeezer
To me, it's that sense of entitlement that makes the whole thing unjustified. There used to be a time when people worked hard, came up with an idea, started a business and based on the decisions they made and the popularity of the product, the business either thrived or went down. A lot of businesses still do go down.
The problem however starts when a group of people feel that since they have started a business, they are entitled to succeed and consumers are supposed to accept all their bad choices so they can make money because well, they're entitled to it.
That's not justified in my view. If you make bad choices, you'll pay for it. Unfortunately, these days, a lot of businesses instead of changing their strategies, opt for changing customer behaviours and that is doomed to fail.
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You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by Wildcatboy :To me, it's that sense of entitlement that makes the whole thing unjustified. There used to be a time when people worked hard, came up with an idea, started a business and based on the decisions they made and the popularity of the product, the business either thrived or went down. A lot of businesses still do go down. The problem however starts when a group of people feel that since they have started a business, they are entitled to succeed and consumers are supposed to accept all their bad choices so they can make money because well, they're entitled to it.That's not justified in my view. If you make bad choices, you'll pay for it. Unfortunately, these days, a lot of businesses instead of changing their strategies, opt for changing customer behaviours and that is doomed to fail. {Bolding mine}
Thank You!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger :said by dadkins :Getting up from the couch when a commercial comes on... bathroom is kinda a priority, and a sandwich may be a pleasant addition to my viewing of a program. Ever wonder why ads are so much louder then regular TV? Not anymore!
So I can listen to them through that sweet, tinkling, waterfall music, eh? 
That's great! And I don't doubt that for a second, either!
They don't need the whole 30 seconds to burn in brand awareness, so by the time you have touch that button a 'good' ad has made its point. . . . I'd take issue with that-- nowadays, anyway. A point of fact:
Many's the time within the past few years that I've watched a commercial, and at the end had absolutely no clue what product was being advertised! Seriously.
They make a lot of them 'abstractly' now, or 'train-of-thought' style, or whatever you want to call it.
But the bottom line is that at the end, I didn't know what product was being advertised, or even for what purpose the product was supposed to be used for!
How "effective" is that kind of advertising?  |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to Wildcatboy
These issues all have to do with interpretation of laws.
Everyone feels a sense of entitlement to do as they see fit. The RIAA feels entitled. The music downloader feels entitled. The Warez site feels entitled. Dadkins feel entitled to not see ads. And avertisers feel entitled to make deals with content providers that assure them that their ads are seen.
So who gets to decide whose entitlement is more important?
I'd like to have Windows XP Pro boot up without the Microsoft logo (advertisement!). Can I do it?
This isn't about what you or I want or about what you or I do. It's about what is the legal basis for these things, and those who have the most to gain or to lose are the ones who are going to argue the loudest and spend their money to defend what they think is their entitlement in court (and not in writing two minute replies in forums such as this one). |
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NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
Murfreesboro, TN
 ·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
 ·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
1 edit | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Is the Hosts file illegal? No! Does the Hosts file block ads? Pretty sure it does... Do YOU have a Hosts file? Many people here do! Some people here WRITE Hosts files... The most popular(?) mechanism was provided by... Microsoft.. You can't place the blame (or the credit) for the hosts file on Microsoft.
The hosts file was developed for the DOD ARPANET and MILNET.
RFC 952 - DoD Internet host table
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall. |
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