Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? As you may or may not remember, a while back we started the Shooting For A Cause project. The purpose of this project was to gather the photographic talents on this forum to produce a photobook and donate the proceeds to charity.
We chose the charity (the Make-A-Wish Foundation), accepted the photograph submissions, even chose which ones should be included in the photobook. Unfortunately, that is where real life and a lack of photobook assembly experience collided. The project stalled for months on end and now stands at a crossroads.
A post asking about the progress of the project ( »What ever became........ ) resulted in an intriguing possibility.
Should we scrap the photobook entirely and just do a calendar (possibly mugs, or other items as well) instead? The advantage would be that the project would need a lot less experience to put together. (It's easier to put 18 images into a calendar than it is to put 100 images into a nice looking photobook.) The disadvantages would be that the charity would likely get less money and less photographers would be featured.
So:
Poll
How do you think we should proceed? |
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DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA
1 edit | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? now that i see a vote.... i dont know.... heres how i feel about it.
its been so long since it was started, that one cannot reasonably expect everyone originally involved to participate. beyond that, voting isnt going to accomplish much, because, there are bound to be plenty of people not interested in doing a charity project of any kind.
its is my opinion that the entire thing be started over, and let those whom which to participate do so, and those who do not, refrain from doing so. if individuals still wish to keep their original submissions involved, so be that as well.
it would be a sad day if we were to allow those uninterested in the idea to bring down such an attainable project that just needs a little devotion. especially one geared towards such a worthy cause. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? Ok, perhaps I shouldn't have put that "forget about the project" option in there. I was thinking that some people might be thinking that we should do a photobook or nothing and since the photobook has hit so many snags, then let's opt for nothing. Now I'm afraid that it'll be used by people who simply don't like the project for one reason or another.
Let me just say that this poll won't be binding. I reserve the right to keep going with the project even if the majority of people insist that we should quit.  (Granted, if too many people say "quit", then I probably wouldn't get the support needed to proceed.) | |
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Brainless
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Sedalia, MO | I would also think restarting over would be the wise choice. I know for myself, I would probably submit something different now than I did then. | |
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cevans59
Premium
join:2003-08-14
Smithton, IL
1 edit | Why not start with something smaller and simpler? Have a monthly poll to select a favorite photo and then make a calendar of those submissions.
The charity gets the money and we all get a great calendar 
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I'm not a human, but I do play one on Earth. | |
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theedj
Right Back At-Cha
Premium
join:2002-12-12
Calgary
clubs:
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I definitely think this is something we should do. If you need help compiling the book, let me know...I'll just toss it into iPhoto and let it do the rest.
I'm sure there's an online solution that would allow this, however tossing together some more affordable options would probably allow us to generate more income for the charity (mugs, calendar, etc). There are definitely more people that would probably be inclined to purchas something for $20 over something for $60.
Posted from BBR mobile | |
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JRSlater8
Do or do not... there is no try
Premium
join:2004-08-12
1 edit | I also think it should proceed. Maybe both the book and other items can be used together, the problem is would the original people who submitted images be willing to allow their images to be used on more than just the book? | |
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B52GUNR
KM 7D love and D3 Nirvana
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-06
Vallejo, CA
clubs: 
 ·Comcast
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Honestly, I think it should be let go. It's obvious the project has stalled and one thing I learned while managing projects is that sometimes you just have to say "it's dead, Jim".
I foresee someone charging forward with great enthusiasm and then it fading into the background again. I firmly believe that if something is meant to be it will be and this just doesn't seem to be something that's meant to be.
This is not a slight to Jason's work, he was a good champion but realistically, I don't see this happening. Sure, a few people speak up and want to see it happen, but when the chips are down and actual work needs to be done, only one or two people will work on it and for work on this scale that's just not enough.
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Some assembly required, your mileage may vary, no pixels were harmed in the writing of this post. Brain cells, though, are a different matter. You want fries with that? | |
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DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA
2 edits | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? (this isnt necessarily a direct response to you b52, just a general response)
Maybe out of the people one person knows, one or two people isn't enough.
I've seen many more involved and difficult projects taken through full completion by lone or very small teams of individuals.
Just because there is a perception of *everyone* is that there is no one devoted enough to see something through to the end, does not make it so.
one or two of the RIGHT people is MORE than enough. But something tells me many around here arent interested in the right people, only the "right" people.
I am not afraid to say that I am quite frankly sickened by the lack of devotion by what appears to be a large majority of people here.
"OH IT DIDNT WORK, SO LETS GIVE UP"....
This is cliche, but I am saying it anyways -
If lincoln gave up, there might still be slavery
If MLK gave up, there might still be massive descrimination
If america gave up, we might all be british...
The best sucesses come from some of the worst failures, and in this b52, i am directly responding to you.
Your statement couldnt be further off. Failure shouldnt be a reason to quit, it should be a reason to try harder. I can only imagine what my wife would say if i told my kids to give up when they failed at taking a picture with their new toy cameras.
Sorry if i offend anyone, but im one to say it like i see it. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? Unless you are one of the "one or two right people", your points come off a bit hollow sounding.
The cause is certainly worthy... and shooting is what we do. The issue is the product, itself. I have no problem being devoted to the first two but I am somewhat underwhelmed by the last.
It's only realistic to step back to the drawing board... there are a TON of things we can do instead of a photobook. Eg,
- stock photography (group account, maybe?)
- "portraits for a cause", 100% donated
- using MissionFish via ebay to support the cause
- etc
You have the passion but a project needs action... are you offering?
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DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA
2 edits | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? said by pog  :Unless you are one of the "one or two right people" and if I am?
Not that it matters. Judging by the comments above, it's pretty obvious where everyone around here stands on the subject anyways. Perhaps I should focus my energy with groups of people more receptive to such things.
Seems there is less and less objectivity around here and more and more sheep herding. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? said by DreamWraith :said by pog :Unless you are one of the "one or two right people" and if I am? Then your energy is positive and will inspire others. If you are not, then it's all from the armchair, isn't it?
Not that it matters. Judging by the comments above, it's pretty obvious where everyone around here stands on the subject anyways. Perhaps I should focus my energy with groups of people more receptive to such things. We were quite receptive a year ago, when this all started. How many images did you submit?
Seems there is less and less objectivity around here and more and more sheep herding.
So, if people don't agree with you, they are prejudiced sheep? That's rich.
Look, if you really care about this, do something. Talk is cheap.
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05241201
Where is Rob A?
Premium
join:2006-03-23
Eagle River, AK
| said by DreamWraith :If lincoln gave up, there might still be slavery If MLK gave up, there might still be massive descrimination If america gave up, we might all be british... Lol, comparing the photobook to these events just made me lol a little. | |
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Edit This
Premium
join:2001-05-08 | I agree 100% with B52GUNR . | |
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JRSlater8
Do or do not... there is no try
Premium
join:2004-08-12 | I think it's a shame that people don't want to see this project continue. I guess I won't be contributing to any projects like this in the future. Not from this forum anyway. | |
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ErthBndAngel
Premium
join:2006-04-25
Manchester, CT
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? No one seems to be following the post that got all of this started so I'll repost my comment from there here. It doesn't seem to me that everyone wants to see this project die. Simply that everyone is looking for some action. Well Hello action sitting right over here all I lack are pictures to take action with.
I'm still willing to help with the project and I think that the idea of starting with something smaller is also a good idea. I believe Jason has all the submissions at this point, but I also think it would be a good idea to start from fresh. With this new idea of a calendar it may change the type of images people choose to submit and will allow people to submit new images. I've designed a few calendars mainly for friends , family and a couple of local business using a combination of publisher for the dates portion and PS for the images portion. Just me offering up both my 2 cents and what time and skill I have.
Ok I've checked out a couple of the websites Jason mentioned and I'm just trying to figure out what the heck we're waiting for. A calendar and other products from any of these sites should be a piece of cake (and I'm talking tasty cake made by someone else...who brought milk). The book idea is HUGE and perhaps what we need is a year or three doing something like this successfully and then we can get some sponsorship with something larger like a book. The only thing this requires is getting the word out that the calendar is available. The sooner we get it done and get people talking about it the better, people are buying calendars now. I know I'm selling them to them.
Anyone know if we need permission from the Make A Wish foundation to use their name on and in relation to the project? If not I'm willing to start making calls and typing e-mails. Who knows what kind of help they and or their staff might be willing to offer if they knew about it.
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I am a contradiction in terms. Good luck. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
1 edit | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? Hello, Action! 
»www.wish.org/help/fundraising/fu···ng_ideas
Generally with non-profits, it should be ok to say that we are supporting a particular cause. Things get a little dicey, though, when it's implied that a given charity officially/formally endorses our effort... even more problematic when it's implied that a particular effort is being staged by a particular charity. All it takes is careful wording, making it clear we are unaffiliated supporters.
Also: »www.wish.org/about/privacy_legal (towards bottom)
All uses of Make-A-Wish Foundation of America service marks, both registered and common law, must be approved in writing by the Make-A-Wish Foundation of America. Inquiries may be directed to comm@wish.org. I'm not sure what images Jason received directly but there are many others still in the original thread: »Shooting For A Cause: The Long Awaited Images Thread
A typical calendar has 16 images? There are enough shots there to fill quite a few calendars!
edit: would it be feasible to create a few calendars? One with animals, another with places, another with bugs, another with people, etc? More images would get used and our chances increase that individual buyers would want one version.
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ErthBndAngel
Premium
join:2006-04-25
Manchester, CT
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? Ok just to give everyone a heads up. An e-mail has been sent to the address provided by POG (thanks for the research) asking them for a little clarification on some of the legal issues and if and how we could obtain the rights to use their logo on the calendar. I would hate to start building calendars without all the available images. Anyone have all of them compiled in one place who could send me a zipped file with them.
Is everyone thinking one image per month full spread or are there any thoughts on doing 2-4 image collage spreads. And if we're going to break things down and do multiple calendars it would be great if who ever has the images now could just put them into some kind of logical groupings that way we can easily see what we've got plenty of and then decide themes based on what we physically have.
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I am a contradiction in terms. Good luck. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I have all of the currently submitted images on my computer. If we do a set of calendars, we should re-contact the people who submitted those photos to make sure they approve of the new use (uses if we go with mugs or other items).
I'll try to group them into categories in the next day or two. Then we'll see about re-opening submissions for the various categories.
I agree that about one image per month, full spread. This will reduce the complexity of having to match up multiple images and make the calendars much easier to compile. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? One per month is probably best... a bigger picture to look at!
Also, if any of the 3 I submitted last time were usable, they can be put on any dslr/bbr "Shooting For A Cause" product.
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Ok, here are the categories that I have so far:
Cities (2 photos)
Flowers (11 photos)
Earth and Sky (15 photos)
Water and Fire (8 photos)
Wildlife (19 photos)
I still have 15 photos to make categories for. We could easily fill 6 calendars. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| ErthBndAngel, If you could make some calls and find out what uses of their name/logo would be appropriate and allowed. For example, would saying "All proceeds go to support [Make A Wish Logo]" be appropriate or would we need another line saying that we're not associated with them. We would also need to know the best way to donate the proceeds to them.
pog, I think a calendar has either 12 or 18 images depending on whether it is a 12 month or 18 month calendar. The multiple "themed" calendar idea is a good one. We could easily fill 5 or more calendars with the photos we've got. (Plus, add in new photo submissions.) | |
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Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
1 edit | Look, I think the point a few have made is if you want to see it through, step up and do it... help, whatever. Rhetoric is fine but action is needed. I submitted photos for this but never offered time beyond that because I know I don't have it. And I am certianly not going to wax about sheep and stuff when I can't step-up myself.
Why all the damn fighting folks. Either step-up or stay quiet.
Edit: Kudos to EBA. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? said by tmpchaos :I think that, to be fair, new submissions should be encouraged- and priors will need to be confirmed. Yes... having categories makes me want to submit more photos!
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA | Thanks. And yes, I think getting new submissions would be a wonderful idea. | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? One thing I just thought of, since you are going the calender route, won't all submissions need to be landscape as opposed to portrait? Will that affect any current submissions? | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I'm guessing that landscape would be preferred, though we could probably either crop or add a border to non-landscape prints. | |
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RowanDu
Premium
join:2005-09-27
Munster, ON | IM IN!
In any way I can help. | |
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rcroning
D70 Rocks
Premium
join:2005-05-21
Winnipeg, MB
1 edit | Looks like things are moving in the right direction despite the fact that the logistics of such a project can be daunting to say the least. Shall we try and enlist the help of someone from the Make-a-Wish Foundation to guide us along? I am sure they have a lot of people experienced in fundraising and would certainly help out if our project can generate some money for their cause.
P.S. My original submission still stands and I would be happy to submit a few more. | |
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ErthBndAngel
Premium
join:2006-04-25
Manchester, CT
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I am already in contact with a woman from MAW thanks to POG's research in finding us an e-mail. I received an e-mail from her Friday, called her back Saturday and left her a message with my phone number and am awaiting her response.
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I am a contradiction in terms. Good luck. | |
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rcroning
D70 Rocks
Premium
join:2005-05-21
Winnipeg, MB | Things are looking up!! | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| I would say go for it. Either the calendar or the photobook would be fine with me.
One question though, what images were selected as the finalists? Do we have a list of those or were the shooters just informed privately.
I might have missed something there...
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I don't believe we ever publicly posted the list of finalists. In fact, I'm now thinking that we may want to take the entire group of submissions and not just the finalists. A photo that might have been rejected as a finalist for a photobook might be perfect for a calendar. | |
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ErthBndAngel
Premium
join:2006-04-25
Manchester, CT
| OK I've received a message from Laura Harris the contact at MAW. Evidently MAW already produces their own calendar and understandably feel that another calendar would detract from their calendars sales.
I haven't spoken with Laura directly yet but she did say there may be something we could do to help the organization.
I decided to open things up to everyone here before I contact her. Do we want to see what MAW would like from us and then decide if we want to do it or do we want to continue with out calendar and find an organization that could utilize our specific efforts?
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I am a contradiction in terms. Good luck. | |
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iSpark
Capturing Memories Making Dreams
Premium
join:2000-07-17
Conway, SC | Re: Future Of The Shooting For A Cause Project? I thought we were going to sale or have them sold elsewhere, the calenders, then give the money to MAW? Does MAW care how it gets money? | |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by Jason Levine :As you may or may not remember, a while back we started the Shooting For A Cause project. The purpose of this project was to gather the photographic talents on this forum to produce a photobook and donate the proceeds to charity. Very noble.
We chose the charity (the Make-A-Wish Foundation), accepted the photograph submissions, even chose which ones should be included in the photobook. Big problem one do they want us as a partner and two why?
Unfortunately, that is where real life and a lack of photobook assembly experience collided. The project stalled for months on end and now stands at a crossroads. Incorrect the collision was the inability to find enough talent to produce a market for another photobook that could break even without some form of a government grant nor less make enough to turn a dime over to a charity.
Wayne
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