Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19098416 en Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:48:15 EDT Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:48:15 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115099 funchords : Me, too.

FIOS is literally 2 blocks away. They painted up my neighborhood, then we had a few weeks of rain, and when the sun shone again, the FIOS contractors had moved on.

That was 18 months ago. We've pretty-much have been forgotton.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115099 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:38:29 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19111010 Nightfall :
said by funchords See Profile :

DSL/FIOS generally have a much bigger pool of bandwidth and a much bigger pool of customers that divide it. The actions of a few will not affect so many with DSL/FIOS, because the larger group can absorb it.

With Cable (DOCSIS), the pool of bandwidth is limited by the technology, and the ability to divide it is also constrained by the way that the neighborhood was wired. At some point with cable, you reach the maximum amount of bandwidth you can deliver and you have already divided the neighborhood into the smallest groups possible.

Unlike DSL/FIOS, CATV providers reach a point where they cannot add bandwidth and they cannot divide the neighborhood any further (without rewiring it).
As you said, they are starkly different technologies when it comes to sharing. Lets be honest here though, one technology is not starkly better than the other. I have seen some DSL providers oversubscribe on their central point and I have seen the same from Cable providers. You are right that it is probably easier to oversubscribe on a cable segment, but at the same time, there is much less of a distance or speed limitation when compared to DSL. IMHO, its a wash as to which technology is "better". Which is why both you and I probably agree that having multiple choices for broadband is key.

The unfortunate part is that most of us only have 1. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19111010 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:46:53 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19110221 scoopy03 : wow 60gb i would go over that not even trying and i dont even have 10mb service atm
--
What's up with Verizon's FIOS Network]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19110221 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:53:49 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19110136 Jigsaw :
said by DMS1 See Profile :

said by Jigsaw See Profile :

Cox has had there Caps in black and white for some time now.
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
I don't think they have much of trouble with abuse but i have not seen anyone complain about it.
But look how low those Cox caps are (60GB per month on top tier). Do you really want Comcast to do this?
I think the highest i ever got was something like 78gigs(went nuts with giganews).Normally Im in the 20 to 30 gig range if that but that's just me.
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»www.auralmoon.com/ Stimulating ears for 7 years]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19110136 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:33:10 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19107526 funchords : Search for these words: bandwidth suspended (or whatever words make sense to you)

In the following forums:
•»Cox HSI
•»Comcast HSI

I come away concluding that they've listed some limits, but they've seldom or never enforced them.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19107526 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:49:37 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19107392 DMS1 :
said by Jigsaw See Profile :

Cox has had there Caps in black and white for some time now.
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
I don't think they have much of trouble with abuse but i have not seen anyone complain about it.
But look how low those Cox caps are (60GB per month on top tier). Do you really want Comcast to do this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19107392 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:28:29 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19104274 funchords :
said by Nightfall See Profile :

I do see your point and I do have to agree with it in some sense. The problem is that there is oversubscribing done on every ISP. If everyone was given permission to use their line full bore all the time and everyone did, can you imagine the bandwidth issues?
Everyone won't. C'mon!

said by Nightfall See Profile :

At least now I know why Comcast isn't complaining about usage to everyone and there is no set cap in some areas. I suspect that its all about usage on a specific node and if people are complaining.
Agree.

said by Nightfall See Profile :

And if you don't think that any of those other services are not shared, then you are sadly mistaken. It isn't like you are sitting right on the backbone with ANY residential based ISP.
Yes, they're all shared. But they are starkly different.

DSL/FIOS generally have a much bigger pool of bandwidth and a much bigger pool of customers that divide it. The actions of a few will not affect so many with DSL/FIOS, because the larger group can absorb it.

With Cable (DOCSIS), the pool of bandwidth is limited by the technology, and the ability to divide it is also constrained by the way that the neighborhood was wired. At some point with cable, you reach the maximum amount of bandwidth you can deliver and you have already divided the neighborhood into the smallest groups possible.

Unlike DSL/FIOS, CATV providers reach a point where they cannot add bandwidth and they cannot divide the neighborhood any further (without rewiring it).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19104274 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:52:09 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103799 moonpuppy :
said by Rob See Profile :

Bad press by who? By DSLReports? By the Washington Post? Other than DSLReports, most news outlets that report the bad press have no clue what they are talking about. They only see 1 side of the story.
It's not about the facts but perception. My local TV channel did a story about Comcast cutting off people. There were some facts but I'll bet money that people only heard "Comcast cut off someone's internet."

Here is the story:

»www.wbaltv.com/money/14067825/detail.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103799 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:11:28 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103783 Nightfall :
said by funchords See Profile :

I fixed my earlier post to say that they imply it by not advertising it. But you were too fast! ;)

said by Nightfall See Profile :

It seems that a bunch of people here believe that Comcast advertises unlimited access. I would like to see that for myself. So far, no one has come forward with that proof.
I haven't seen it, either.

But it does stand to reason that if my tier is 6 Mbps, that I'm allowed to use up to 6 Mbps (Megabits per second) ... or 360 Megabits per minute ... 21,600 Megabits per hour ... 518,400 Megabits per day ... and so on.

And if that's not the deal -- then what is the deal? What am I forking my hard-earned money for?

The only reason that I can fathom that Comcast has an invisible cap is because of the shared nature of Cable Internet service. There are plenty of other shared Internet services that have solved this problem -- EDVO, WISPs, Satellite ISPs.

Comcast DOES NOT WANT to be known as a shared service. They're in competition with FIOS and DSL which doesn't have to impose such restrictions.
I do see your point and I do have to agree with it in some sense. The problem is that there is oversubscribing done on every ISP. If everyone was given permission to use their line full bore all the time and everyone did, can you imagine the bandwidth issues?

At least now I know why Comcast isn't complaining about usage to everyone and there is no set cap in some areas. I suspect that its all about usage on a specific node and if people are complaining.

And if you don't think that any of those other services are not shared, then you are sadly mistaken. It isn't like you are sitting right on the backbone with ANY residential based ISP. Heck, even business based ones for that matter don't sit right on the internet backbone. So I really don't subscribe to the "shared service" arguement since all ISPs have shared service. You wouldn't believe the amount of people here who say that DSL isn't a shared service and think its a dedicated circuit when that just isn't the case. Its just a different kind of sharing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103783 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:07:12 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103075 Jigsaw : Cox has had there Caps in black and white for some time now.
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
I don't think they have much of trouble with abuse but i have not seen anyone complain about it.
--
»www.auralmoon.com/ Stimulating ears for 7 years]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19103075 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:14:39 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19101054 KrK :
said by dadkins See Profile :

You may be in a 200GB market, I may be in a 75GB market.
To be fair(LOL!) Comcast will say your area is now 75GB just like mine.
IMHO this is the best (and only real) reason to fear a policy of declaring Caps.

That the CableCo may decide it's easier to declare "One size fits all" and then look at their most oversold nodes and make the Cap down to that level.

This, I agree, is a possibility. However the solution would be for the users to push back and Comcast to start losing customers over the low caps. End result: Comcast has to upgrade capacity to raise caps and retain customers. That's the solution.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19101054 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:23:35 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19101028 KrK :
said by dadkins See Profile :

Joe Comcast user... scared of hitting cap and getting "The Letter", so he is staying just under 75GB per month.
Joe Comcast user is clueless the cap exists, and therefore isn't cutting back anything from fear that they do not have. 99.9% Of Joe Comcast users don't surf BroadbandReports (or at least not regularly) and are blissfully oblivious... and therefore even if someone came and told them straight out "You Cap is 200GB a month" it wouldn't mean squat to them because they aren't hitting it.

Maybe in the future as more and more services start to piggyback on Broadband this might become an issue, but then when Joe Comcast starts hitting caps instead of just "Heavy downloaders" well Comcast is going to be taking flak anyway.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19101028 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:20:26 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100978 KrK :
said by dadkins See Profile :

Then there are the Power users that are aware that they are pushing the unknown "limits" with their monthly totals.
These are the ones that will likely see a stated cap and run right up to that limit EVERY month - "Because I pay for it".
Here's the deal. Sometimes we forget that while quite a lot of us surf this website regularly, 99.9% of the people with broadband DO NOT.

Most of these so called heavy users are clueless about the existance of a Cap. Therefore there is NO FEAR HOLDING THEM BACK.

It's only when they get threatened with disconnection that the consternation starts.

So my point being these people are already maxxing out their connections a lot. Telling them their CAP might actually improve the situation by creating the fear you mentioned.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100978 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:14:32 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100942 KrK : See, that's the fear, but I think it is unfounded.

I know quite a few people who have broadband. Of those, only one of them is what most people would call heavy user. The rest are gamers, and regular users.

They could announce the true Cap on their bill tommorrow. These guys aren't going to rush to download more or crank up an FTP server or anything. They'll keep playing their games, their surfing, and regular downloading. Why?

None of em give a damn about the cap now. None worry that they are over, so there's no "fear" holding them back. They do what they want, when they feel like it. So if tommorrow the cable Co told them what their Cap actually is, what would effect? Nothing. They wouldn't care.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100942 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:10:21 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100578 dadkins : Joe Comcast user... scared of hitting cap and getting "The Letter", so he is staying just under 75GB per month.

Comcast imposes a 150GB cap.
Joe user ramps up usage because he is "Paying for it and wants to get all of what he is paying for".

Me, caps or not, I have yet to hit 32GB in a month.
Cap it at anything 32GB or higher and *I* won't really care - unless I get the urge to download 50 movies some month.

Those "I pay for it, I'll max it!" types are out there.
Comcast(YOU KNOW!) will lowball it and we all will see a thousand *more* "Comcast is teh suck" posts here alone... :huh:
Best to leave it in the Inviso Cap realm.

You may be in a 200GB market, I may be in a 75GB market.
To be fair(LOL!) Comcast will say your area is now 75GB just like mine.
Awesome, huh?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100578 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:18:47 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100042 funchords : I fixed my earlier post to say that they imply it by not advertising it. But you were too fast! ;)

said by Nightfall See Profile :

It seems that a bunch of people here believe that Comcast advertises unlimited access. I would like to see that for myself. So far, no one has come forward with that proof.
I haven't seen it, either.

But it does stand to reason that if my tier is 6 Mbps, that I'm allowed to use up to 6 Mbps (Megabits per second) ... or 360 Megabits per minute ... 21,600 Megabits per hour ... 518,400 Megabits per day ... and so on.

And if that's not the deal -- then what is the deal? What am I forking my hard-earned money for?

The only reason that I can fathom that Comcast has an invisible cap is because of the shared nature of Cable Internet service. There are plenty of other shared Internet services that have solved this problem -- EDVO, WISPs, Satellite ISPs.

Comcast DOES NOT WANT to be known as a shared service. They're in competition with FIOS and DSL which doesn't have to impose such restrictions.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19100042 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:58:11 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099905 Nightfall :
said by funchords See Profile :

said by Nightfall See Profile :

said by wispagod See Profile :

Well, it seems like fals advertising to me if they say unlimited usage, then try to enforce a cap, or complain when you use it to much, that's not right either
Where have they advertised unlimited usage? I keep hearing this from various people here, and in the last 3-4 years there hasn't been a single print or TV ad that has been released that says "unlimited usage". Please provide some kind of proof.
They have advertised unlimited use by not advertising limited use. Remember, they are head-to-head in competition with DSL and FIOS. Comcast's tiers are set to make the customer believe that Comcast HSI is superior (to DSL) or equal (to FIOS).

This issue is illustrating, in bright lights, that Comcast HSI is not what it seems.

See my post here: »Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
They advertise it by not advertising it? Sorry man, but that really is reaching. They could be comparing speeds, uptime, services such as antivirus, or spam filtering. To say that they don't advertise it, but since they are comparing services, they are saying its unlimited is a load of crap statement.

Now, I will say that Comcast should come out with some kind of set limit in the news. For that matter, all companies like Charter and other providers should do the same thing. Either publish your limits or don't complain if someone uses their connection full bore. At the same time though, there is a very big difference between saying "unlimited use" and not saying it.

As I said before, provide some proof. It seems that a bunch of people here believe that Comcast advertises unlimited access. I would like to see that for myself. So far, no one has come forward with that proof.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099905 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:33:36 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099694 Richard B : The problem is you do not have a right to redefine unlimited. If Unlimited access the Comcasts is being true to the word compared to the bad old days of Mom and Pop ISP where one could be bumped offline for inactivity or being connect too long.

I do not recall Comcast offer unlimited bandwidth. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099694 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:57:55 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099524 RARPSL :
said by DMS1 See Profile :

said by KrK See Profile :

Personally, people use the internet the way they use it. I don't see anyone suddenly increasing usage just because they found out what their cap limit is. What I do see happening is the people who have been exceeding the limits CUTTING BACK their usage to just below the cap... but isn't that the point?
I disagree. The vast majority of users probably never exceed a tenth of what the current soft cap is. However, it the small band of heavy downloaders that have the potential to affect the performance of individual nodes because their usage can be many times the average.
Unless everyone uses the same amount of bandwidth some HAVE TO "Use More Than The Average" since anytime you have different amounts of anything some are going to be under the average and some above it since the definition of average is the total of the measurements divided by the number of measurements. The problem is that the cap is set too low to support the users on the node. You should provision for the heavy users and let low usage users get their bandwidth as part of the equation. The idea is that you look at the actual measurements to see what they look like.

There are 3 different measures that can be called "The Average". The normal usage of Total/Count is the Arithmetic mean. The other 2 look at what value occurs the most often [Mode] and what value occurs at the middle when you list them in order of magnitude [Median] (ie: If you have 1001 measures, which one occurs at position 501 and thus has 500 below it and 500 above it).

One of these alternate "averages" is a better measure in this case since the vast majority of the measures are, as stated, below the cap (IOW: Mode and Median are probably near each other and way below the inappropriate Arithmetic Mean). An Arithmetic mean is only a valid measure when it is near the Mode and/or Median values (as it is NOT in this case).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099524 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:32:08 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099417 DaSneaky1D : OK...Download, burn, delete.

Alright, I can see that. Even still, I think that the amount of people that would do that are still small enough to not impact a network if Comcast did state a hard line of acceptable usage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099417 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:14:19 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099273 Ebolla : at that time it was more likely saying unlimited access with fine print indicating 24hour connection unlike many dial-up services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099273 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:54:10 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099066 funchords :
Then there are the Power users that are aware that they are pushing the unknown "limits" with their monthly totals.
These are the ones that will likely see a stated cap and run right up to that limit EVERY month - "Because I pay for it".
Does anyone here have a cell phone that comes with a certain amount of "free minutes" every month?

Do you use them?

It's the same thing. Nobody talks for the sake of talking, but some certainly talk more than others. Exposing the limit is not going to drive people to use it more. But it will tell the ones that are ALREADY using it heavily that they have to use it less.

Ah, but then again, there's that competition problem again.

As soon as Comcast is "limited," then DSL/FIOS have a field day. Just like Satellite had a field day with Comcast CATV over "Digital Cable."
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099066 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:26:40 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099052 Kearnstd : but still limits without saying what they are because its regional and then not being open in those regions is like a 200mi freeway, the first half is 65mph and not posted and the second half is 55mph again not posted, yet the cops know and issue tickets.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099052 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:24:02 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099030 djrobx : A couple years ago I would have agreed that its difficult to actually consume so much data. But, with HD movies at around 9GB a pop (even more if not reencoded to DVD9 size), it's pretty easy to actually utilize a lot of gigs now.

Couple that with 8+mbps speeds even those huge data files don't really take that long to download. You can blow through that stated "90GB cap" in a day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099030 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:20:09 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099017 funchords :
said by Nightfall See Profile :

said by wispagod See Profile :

Well, it seems like fals advertising to me if they say unlimited usage, then try to enforce a cap, or complain when you use it to much, that's not right either
Where have they advertised unlimited usage? I keep hearing this from various people here, and in the last 3-4 years there hasn't been a single print or TV ad that has been released that says "unlimited usage". Please provide some kind of proof.
They have implied unlimited use by not advertising limited use. Remember, they are head-to-head in competition with DSL and FIOS. Comcast's tiers are set to make the customer believe that Comcast HSI is superior (to DSL) or equal (to FIOS).

This issue is illustrating, in bright lights, that Comcast HSI is not what it seems.

See my post here: »Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099017 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:17:19 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099013 dadkins : As it stands, there are the FU** IT types of HSI customers and they get kicked eventually - good!

There are peoplr like myself that use the connection "normally" and will never have to worry about a cap or "The Letter/The Call"

Then there are the Power users that are aware that they are pushing the unknown "limits" with their monthly totals.
These are the ones that will likely see a stated cap and run right up to that limit EVERY month - "Because I pay for it".

There's the problem.
Forget that Comcast will likely set the hard cap at some silly low number so everyone will be on a level playing field.. like 50GB per month? Lower?

What do you think the average usage per customer is?
Aint 100GB. Sure as hell isn't 200GB

Screw that!
A 50GB cap would not CURRENTLY affect me, but what about the thousands of others out there that hit 100GB per month?
Sure going to piss off a few, eh?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099013 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:16:54 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099010 morbo : if you signed up under the "unlimited" banner 4+ years ago, they are on questionable legal ground if they try limiting it now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19099010 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:16:27 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098889 DaSneaky1D : Most people with HSI don't even know how to use the Internet that much, where to go to download that much, or have an idea what a GigaByte even is. I seriouly doubt there will be an upward trend by any majority if they stated their limits.

And honestly, anyone that can find a way to consume 300, 400, ect GB of data is quite likely wasting it. Are people routinely storing that much data a month? Are people watching 10 hours of IPTV everyday each month? Even a combination of activities is excessive, and the majority of HSI users are not that type of consumer for any residential ISP, let alone Comcast.
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098889 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:57:03 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098853 lesopp : They also aren't advertising it as "limited".

This is from the fine print on the "Select a Package" web page:

Comcast High-Speed Internet: Equipment fees not included in monthly service charge. Prices do not include applicable taxes, installation or franchise fees. Pricing, content, and features may change and may vary by area. Call your local Comcast office for restrictions and complete details about service, prices, and equipment in your area. Pricing and service offerings displayed on this site are for residential Comcast customers only. Commercial and business pricing and service offerings differ. Prices are subject to change. Speed comparisons are for downloads only and are compared to 768Kbps DSL and 56Kbps dial-up. Maximum download speed of 4Mbps (or 6 Mbps) and upload speeds of 384Kbps (or 768Kbps) depending on the product that is selected. Increased speeds not yet available in all areas. Actual speeds may vary and are not guaranteed. Many factors affect download speed.

Based on what is on their website, a subscriber should be able to learn about limitations from their local office. Them not providing a definition for that local limitation is all the more reason to embrace competition.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098853 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:51:01 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098840 Nightfall :
said by wispagod See Profile :

Well, it seems like fals advertising to me if they say unlimited usage, then try to enforce a cap, or complain when you use it to much, that's not right either
Where have they advertised unlimited usage? I keep hearing this from various people here, and in the last 3-4 years there hasn't been a single print or TV ad that has been released that says "unlimited usage". Please provide some kind of proof.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098840 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:49:32 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098796 S_engineer : How do you know that since Comcrap doesen't give you a number in black and white. Remember, these numbers also vary from market to market.
Personally, I think a number in black and white would be too low, therefore making Comcrap state a actual cap would be a bad idea.
--
Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098796 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:42:28 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098702 Rob :
said by KrK See Profile :

I'd tend to agree. These days they have shied away from using the word "Unlimited" to avoid the legal consequences but have done nothing to disperse the public misconception that it is unlimited, and since they don't tell you it's capped, in fact, they deny it if asked, people DO assume it's unlimited.

Thus the bad press every time a heavy user gets stomped on.
Bad press by who? By DSLReports? By the Washington Post? Other than DSLReports, most news outlets that report the bad press have no clue what they are talking about. They only see 1 side of the story.

Every time a user comes here complaining they got cut off from Comcast because they downloaded 500GB .. or even worse, 1 TB in a month.. I smile, pat my cable modem, and enjoy watching them whine how they called and threatened to leave and go to DSL. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098702 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:30:21 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098656 Rob :
said by wispagod See Profile :

Well, it seems like fals advertising to me if they say unlimited usage, then try to enforce a cap, or complain when you use it to much, that's not right either
Comcast isn't advertising their service as unlimited, therefore, they aren't guilty of false advertising.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098656 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:25:41 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098598 dadkins : It will happen like this...

xxxGB cap, "ONOES!!!1 I'm not getting all of what I'm paying for, must download for the sake of downloading because I am paying for it!"

Usage spikes! Your Comcast line chokes because all your neighbors take the above attitude and open it up!

You and I may not do this, but you know damn well some people will do it!

Screw that noise! :huh:
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Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098598 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:18:07 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098563 KrK : I'd tend to agree. These days they have shied away from using the word "Unlimited" to avoid the legal consequences but have done nothing to disperse the public misconception that it is unlimited, and since they don't tell you it's capped, in fact, they deny it if asked, people DO assume it's unlimited.

Thus the bad press every time a heavy user gets stomped on.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098563 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:13:23 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098486 wispagod : Well, it seems like fals advertising to me if they say unlimited usage, then try to enforce a cap, or complain when you use it to much, that's not right either]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098486 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:03:54 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098443 KrK : Uh, those are the people who are exceeding the caps now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098443 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:58:09 EDT Re: I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098416 DMS1 :
said by KrK See Profile :

Personally, people use the internet the way they use it. I don't see anyone suddenly increasing usage just because they found out what their cap limit is. What I do see happening is the people who have been exceeding the limits CUTTING BACK their usage to just below the cap... but isn't that the point?
I disagree. The vast majority of users probably never exceed a tenth of what the current soft cap is. However, it the small band of heavy downloaders that have the potential to affect the performance of individual nodes because their usage can be many times the average. These are exactly the people who would take great pride in running to within a few megabytes of the limit. If these people found out that the limit was 400GB per month when they were only currently doing 350GB, they would up their usage. This is why any published cap is going to be way lower than the current soft caps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098416 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:54:09 EDT I still don't agree that knowledge = Greater use http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098360 KrK : This argument of "If we declare the Cap, then average users will increase usage to reach just below the Cap."

That's based on what--- Nothing. Personally, people use the internet the way they use it. I don't see anyone suddenly increasing usage just because they found out what their cap limit is. What I do see happening is the people who have been exceeding the limits CUTTING BACK their usage to just below the cap... but isn't that the point?

However, I think what Comcast really fears is the advertising damage--- they have to inform the public that NO, it isn't unlimited, and they are worried that the competition (DSL) may advertise their true, no capped limits....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19098360 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:46:14 EDT