evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
 ·Windstream
1 edit | Completely reasonable.
The limits look quite reasonable to be honest. Might be nice to not have your aggregate bandwidth and latency in the toilet because of a couple of crapbags in your area absolutely must run P2P or newsgroup downloads 100% of the time.
Unlimited means you can be connected without a time limit, like the old dial-up days and "$9.99 for 15 hours". No one in their right mind thinks it means unlimited bandwidth. I'd fully expect my ISP to dropkick me if I were consuming 100% bandwidth 100% of the time.
Now lets hear from the pirates... |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
 ·RapidVPS
·surpasshosting
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·VoicePulse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by evilghost  :Now lets hear from the pirates... 90-135 MB's uploaded (depending on package) in a 12 hour period is an acceptable cap limit to you? That is very restrictive. Heck a couple of kids killing off an afternoon playing an online game would eat through that. As I said, my VoIP phones would kill that as well if someone talked for awhile. What about trying to get some digital photos onto Snapfish? These caps seem to me, to be within reach of many "normal" users.
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
1 edit | said by swintec :said by evilghost :Now lets hear from the pirates... 90-135 MB's uploaded (depending on package) in a 12 hour period is an acceptable cap limit to you? That is very restrictive. Heck a couple of kids killing off an afternoon playing an online game would eat through that. As I said, my VoIP phones would kill that as well if someone talked for awhile. What about trying to get some digital photos onto Snapfish? These caps seem to me, to be within reach of many "normal" users. If you're doing that type of activity it's doubtful you'll be on the 1.5Mbit/200Kbps package, one would likely be 'Residential Plus' or greater and would be subjected to a more appropriate bandwidth restriction. If you're dumping 90M of images it would be a good idea to pre-process them prior to upload.
The Internet's a community of attached networks/nodes, not a cesspool for leeches.
I'd actually be inclined to do business with a company that enforced reasonable limits because it would be highly likely that I'd get the speeds and services I paid for instead of being subjected to congestion like morning traffic. |
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morbo
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| reply to evilghost
what the hell are you talking about?
in regards to broadband, unlimited has never meant "unlimited connected time" and trying to twist it to that is extreme. broadband connections are all always-on. unlimited = unlimited usage. that means unrestricted.
not anyone's problem if dumbass CableOne outfit didn't get the memo. class action lawsuit anyone? |
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
1 edit | said by morbo :what the hell are you talking about? in regards to broadband, unlimited has never meant "unlimited connected time" and trying to twist it to that is extreme. broadband connections are all always-on. unlimited = unlimited usage. that means unrestricted. not anyone's problem if dumbass CableOne outfit didn't get the memo. class action lawsuit anyone? If I negotiate a PPPoE connection, how exactly is that always on? No, it isn't always on. The marketing term is there to ease understanding of current dial-up customers (who they're trying to attract). Only the people who inaccurately think otherwise are disappointed. |
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morbo
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| pppoe, are you serious? you are just splitting hairs with that argument.
any reasonable person understands that UNLIMITED means unlimited of that product or service. there are not multiple definitions of the word unlimited. in this case, unlimited broadband means unlimited use of your connection, not unlimited connection time. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to swintec
This seems more restrictive than it actually is. That's 90-135 MB before you trigger the rate limiting.
I did a chart to illustrate.
Basically, they're saying that -- during prime time -- sustained heavy downloading and uploading is going to pulled back to 50% of your maximum speed.
Most P2P users don't upload faster than 80% of their capacity at most, and they download at a rate of about 25% or less of their download capacity.
And, if you are on Cable, then you are on a shared service with your neighbors. If you do P2P on Cable, then you should already be backing off of your speeds during prime-time.
I'm wondering if the 8.3% threshholds will turn out to be so low that it impacts more users than necessary. But the actual impacts of hitting the threshhold, and what it would do to my Internet usage patterns, are actually quite mild.
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
| reply to morbo
Odd that their corporate lawyers, laymen, marketing companies, aggregate population, and normal users don't see it that way. Why would they market the service as unlimited with regard to bandwidth and impose clear bandwidth limits based on their pricing tier? |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :The limits look quite reasonable to be honest. Might be nice to not have your aggregate bandwidth and latency in the toilet because of a couple of crapbags in your area absolutely must run P2P or newsgroup downloads 100% of the time. Unlimited means you can be connected without a time limit, like the old dial-up days and "$9.99 for 15 hours". No one in their right mind thinks it means unlimited bandwidth. I'd fully expect my ISP to dropkick me if I were consuming 100% bandwidth 100% of the time. Now lets hear from the pirates... Unlimited means everything without.....LIMITS! Sorry, this is NOT unlimited and is metered internet access.
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :Unlimited means you can be connected without a time limit Unless your name is Merriam or Webster, please refrain from making up definitions to suit your narrowed view.
»www.m-w.com/dictionary/unlimited
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morbo
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| reply to evilghost
for one thing, you should have noticed reading dslreports that most corporations selling broadband have moved away from the UNLIMITED advertising for a reason. because any action by them that is not UNLIMITED is a potential lawsuit.
as to why CableOne still does this, who knows. perhaps they are idiots. one thing is clear: saying a product is unlimited and then having limits on it is false advertising. multiply that by all their customers, and you can see the problem. |
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
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| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :Odd that their corporate lawyers, laymen, marketing companies, aggregate population, and normal users don't see it that way. Why would they market the service as unlimited with regard to bandwidth and impose clear bandwidth limits based on their pricing tier? Because they're in competition with DSL and FIOS, which isn't as impacted by heavy users because a much larger pool of bandwidth can be divided over a much larger pool of customers.
They need to make the customer feel that the Cable Internet service is as capable as the DSL or FIOS service, which usually does not impose such limits (stated or otherwise).
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bassrck4
join:2006-05-09
Berwick, PA | reply to evilghost
Yar... |
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dvarona
join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
·Covad Communications
3 edits | reply to evilghost
No, it is not odd. Corporate lawyers, and marketing companies love to pretend to sell something and not give it to you. "SAVE $300"-- by spending $1000; nothing is saved at all. "GET FREE REFILLS FOR LIFE!!" just by paying the overpriced shipping and handling fee of $19.95 for sending by USPS in a $0.95 postage snail-mail box. "ONLY $20!!!!!" ("after $750 rebate" in small print whose application makes the customer jump through steps that are nearly impossible to complete).
They're all greedy to deceive. And you appear to be too, because you claim plausible deniability by requiring people to hear "unlimited" and apply it in your narrow context. You sound very much like a corporate type whose profit margin is sustained by cutting costs and treating the customer as a liability beyond their payment aspect. Will you clearly and unequivocally state that you have no financial connection to any business that is making its income in this way?
Your inclusion of "laymen", "aggregate population", and "normal users" is odd, since it is the normal users that are complaining. Do you have any data that allows you to include them here? Probably none for the others either, but those seem self-evident.
Don't promise what you can't deliver. All you have to do is remove the word "unlimited", and tell people what their data transfer caps are. Simple. Don't lie. Don't try to trick the customer and tell them it was their own fault. Don't tell us what hogs we are and then refuse to tell us how to really fix it. You're trying to have the best of both worlds by talking out of both sides of your mouth.
--dv |
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pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Canada
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 ·Novus Entertainmen..
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :If you're doing that type of activity it's doubtful you'll be on the 1.5Mbit/200Kbps package, one would likely be 'Residential Plus' or greater and would be subjected to a more appropriate bandwidth restriction. If you're dumping 90M of images it would be a good idea to pre-process them prior to upload. Give me a break, 90MB worth of images is *nothing*. Photos I take on my camera are easily 4-5MB a piece, that's only 18 photos at 90MB! If I want to upload a bunch of photos that I have taken at a family gathering .. that's at least 30 or 40 photos of various loved ones, this isn't even heavy usage. I want to upload these photos to Flickr and I want people to be able to print high quality versions of them, that's at least 200MB uploaded. With 200Kbit upstream, uploading that many images is still quite reasonable.
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
2 edits | reply to dvarona
No, it's the pirates who are complaining. It's the people who feel they are entitled to saturate to the point of degradation by running BitTorrent, P2P, newsgroup download, etc that complain. A normal user will very rarely hit that limit.
The term 'unlimited' certainly pertains to access hour restrictions/hour restrictions, not bandwidth. The context is inferred from the dial-up days.
Evidently people are more concerned with dissecting pedantic uses of 'unlimited' and threatening legal action while behind the scenes they're slowly building a nice cache of pirated content; odd.
I'd prefer reasonable limits to be set to avoid my ISP being forced to trunk in additional bandwidth because the leeches saturate the network forcing price-hikes or retardation of higher speed roll-out due to budget constraints.
Caveat emptor always applies, John Wayne said "Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid", I think it sums it up nicely for those who think 'unlimited' in this context applies to bandwidth utilization. |
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hurfy
Premium
join:2002-08-06
Spokane, WA
| Even your definition doesn't work tho.
You can only use this 'unlimited' connection for about 1 hour during the day before they penalize you !!!
So you can have it on as long as you like provided you don't use it for anything. OK, we know which end of the deal you are on.
Anyways
Maybe if it was 9 to 5 or something. That is an awful draconian limit to cover til midnight! I am not even sure i could go home and play games after work. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | reply to evilghost
Which pirates are complaining?
I've already shown that this doesn't hurt the pirates.
You sure are full of assumptions -- and, so far, most of them have been wrong. |
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King Duck
join:2005-04-10
Elizabeth City, NC
1 edit | reply to funchords
Fios does not have limits for downloads or uploads....
Nor does Verizon DSL.
Although one could argue that your connection speed is a limitter I guess...
 |
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swintec
Premium
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Alfred, ME
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| said by King Duck :Fios does not have limits for downloads or uploads.... Not yet anyways.
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