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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to jc100

Re: Immunity

said by jc100:

Mindless rantings.

Each time you say you are done, you keep coming back.

Face it, your entire argument is nothing more than a rant against President Bush and Republicans and you will never see truth or logic when it contradicts your views. If you ever open your eyes (which remains quite doubtful), you will see that politicians (whether Democrat or Republican) will always look out for their best interests and not those of the country as a whole. Until you realize that, you will have nightmares of Republicans dancing around with illegal wiretaps and provocations of war.

And, if you bothered to do any research, you would have realized that most of these wiretaps were on calls that originated OUTSIDE the US which means they have very little protection under US law. I would be surprised if these calls were originally recorded here and not in some other country whose wire tapping laws are either negligible or non-existent.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
First and Foremost, ALMOST ALL Republicans voted for this. However, you don't bother to read down where I also Chastised the large percentage of Democrats who did, too. All but those 62-66 Democrats (forget number), don't deserve to be re-elected for going along with this foolishness. Hence, my argument has more merit than yours. Your argument is based of sheer ignorance of both history and mankind. You seem to make things one sided about the Muslims being out to kill everyone. I've proven you wrong EACH AND EVERY TIME with hard facts. You seem to be oblivious to reality.

Christians are far worse historically than Muslims. However, bad behavior is bad behavior. None of it should be tolerated, no matter who it is coming from. However, in dealing with it, there's a certain level of action thats required. I said it before, parking barriers by federal buildings, metal detectors, and increased airport security are fine. Those dont intrude on our every day lives. However, WIRETAPS are not. You obviously don't know history, which doesn't surprise me since you've gotten it wrong each and every time you've spoken. However, the FBI just got audited and it was found over 100 COPIED letters were mailed out DEMANDING information on Americans, in cases where such information was not required. More or less, the government is using these laws to spy on US and AVOID the checks and balances of the court. Likewise, who knows who they are monitoring. You and I don't got a list of calls. Obviously, they could be tapping into our phones, and without the courts overseeing it, we'll never know. That's the problem in a nutshell and you are playing naive in thinking the government has our best interest at heart here. I'll let you believe that. No one is going to force someone with blinders to change.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
All you have proven is your lack of understanding and complete ignorance of history.

I corrected you once before when you CLAIMED that the Democrats were unanimous in their voting about the Patriot Act. You argued semantics. I brought FACTS and not something that could be questioned but the Federal Record. You still tried to say Democrats were against this.

Do I think the FBI and government in general make stupid moves. Of course they do. However, I don't lay blame on just one person, I blame the entire structure. As for those Democrats who did not vote for the Act, where are they? Why aren't they yelling from very mountaintop, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

And if you think Hillary or Obama will repeal it, you will be sorely disappointed.

As for Christians killing more people, a)show some facts and b)the Muslims seem to be catching up rather quickly. BTW, if you are not a Muslim, then you are either to be killed or a slave according to radical Islam.

Better calm down before you have a stroke.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
You are completely a HOPELESS cause. FIRST, wake up from your delusion. I NEVER CLAIMED unanimous voting on the Patriot Act. Go find where I stated this. On the complete contrast, I SAID ALMOST all Republicans voted for it and around 62-66 Democrats voted no. I never once made the allegation you mention. I vehemently stated that those Democrats not in the 62-66 should be OUSTERED. READ CAREFULLY AND NOT WHAT YOU WISH TO SEE. Hence, FACTS aren't in your dictionary are they? Do you make up things as you go. Time and Time again I've caught your fallacies.

As for the FBI, they are abusing their power because we are letting them. By removing the courts and checks and balances, we have given them the right to do whatever they wish with no oversight. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The same for the NSA. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself when we unilaterally hand away our rights to one entity, and expect them not to go above and beyond their call of duty. It's dangerous to give such power to one person, but you'll never see this once again. To the point the Democrats aren't acting, they have LIMITED the Patriot Act and put stipulations. It's more than the Republicans did with their rubber stamps. SOmething is better than nothing at this point. Id rather have some gains than more losses. STill, the whole damn document needs to be repealed.

On Christian / Muslim Genocide, Muslims aren't even close. Please name me 7 million people Muslims have killed since 1940. Hitler, sponsored by the Methodist and Catholic Church exterminated 6 million. The Bosnian Serbs killed 1-200,000. Let's not forget the wars started by Christian Missionaries FORCING their beliefs onto people in Africa. We all know how much of a mess that place is in some countries. Good old colonialism, favoritism, and forced religion have mucked that place up. So by far, Christians drinking the sacrament are slurping the blood of those who they have killed. OF which includes people who have refused to convert (Inquisition and such). However, believe what you wish. Either way, bad behavior and murder isn't justified but take your IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY elsewhere. It wasn't but ten years ago the Serbs MURDERED those 100-200,000 Muslims and dropped them in mass graves. War Crime Trials are still taking place for those.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by jc100:

You are completely a HOPELESS cause. FIRST, wake up from your delusion. I NEVER CLAIMED unanimous voting on the Patriot Act. Go find where I stated this. On the complete contrast, I SAID ALMOST all Republicans voted for it and around 62-66 voted no. I never once made the allegation you mention. I vehemently stated that those Democrats not in the 62-66 should be OUSTERED. READ CAREFULLY AND NOT WHAT YOU WISH TO SEE. Hence, FACTS aren't in your dictionary are they? Do you make up things as you go. Time and Time again I've caught your fallacies.
Your own words RIGHT HERE:

»Re: People keep telling me Im Wrong

You used the word UNANIMOUS. Not "nearly" unanimous until I corrected you. All but 2 Democrats in the Senate voted for it. One against and one abstained. And you still keep forgetting the 3 Republicans in the House who voted against it. You = owned.

said by jc100:

As for the FBI, they are abusing their power because we are letting them. By removing the courts and checks and balances, we have given them the right to do whatever they wish with no oversight. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The same for the NSA. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself when we unilaterally hand away our rights to one entity, and expect them not to go above and beyond their call of duty. It's dangerous to give such power to one person, but you'll never see this once again. To the point the Democrats aren't acting, they have LIMITED the Patriot Act and put stipulations. It's more than the Republicans did with their rubber stamps. SOmething is better than nothing at this point. Id rather have some gains than more losses. STill, the whole damn document needs to be repealed.
The democrats did and do nothing except cry about the war. If a bill fails, re-introduce it until the American people say something and force the hand of the republicans. If not then they are just the same.

said by jc100:

On Christian / Muslim Genocide, Muslims aren't even close. Please name me 7 million people Muslims have killed since 1940. Hitler, sponsored by the Methodist and Catholic Church exterminated 6 million. The Bosnian Serbs killed 1-200,000. Let's not forget the wars started by Christian Missionaries FORCING their beliefs onto people in Africa. We all know how much of a mess that place is in some countries. Good old colonialism, favoritism, and forced religion have mucked that place up. So by far, Christians drinking the sacrament are slurping the blood of those who they have killed. OF which includes people who have refused to convert (Inquisition and such). However, believe what you wish. Either way, bad behavior and murder isn't justified but take your IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY elsewhere. It wasn't but ten years ago the Serbs MURDERED those 100-200,000 Muslims and dropped them in mass graves. War Crime Trials are still taking place for those.
Lesso already responded with a list of Muslim attorcities, I'd suggest you read them unless you had too much Kool Aid.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
And yet...

In the house, you will see 64 voted no. Only 3 Republicans. Hence, I do blame democrats, but not all. On the other hand, the Republicans voted unanimously to piss away your rights. At least 66 democrats between the house and senate spoke their mind. It's more than the opposite party did.

I am steadfast right by saying ALMOST UNANIMOUS. So while you might have corrected me on saying 1 or whatever, I WAS NOT FAR OFF. So the point stands. THREE REPUBLICANS and 61 DEMOCRATS. Thats 20X times the Republicans. POINT AND MATCH.!

The democrats did and do nothing except cry about the war. If a bill fails, re-introduce it until the American people say something and force the hand of the republicans. If not then they are just the same.

Um they aren't crying. They are CONTINUING to try and pass bills. Yet, the Republicans WHO HATE AMERICANS obviously and wish for war, DO NOT let anything change. Stay the course is the same MANTRA we have heard from Bush since Iraq began. Stay the course? Really? It's failed over and over and you want to keep trying? I swear, Bush and his Party are filled with certifiable retards. Last time I checked, if something doesn't work, you modify your strategy. NOT THE REPUBLICANS. You STAY the course. Let's not Forget that Republicans have had Control of Congress from 1995-2001 and 2003-2006. Between 2001 and 2003 they controlled the House. Hence, they have dictated the policy that has led us to much of our quagmire. Whine, sure they don't whine. Only one person in Congress has a kid in office. It's not their sons or daughters dying. They could care less. They care about the Black Gold that Iraq possess, not about Saddam. They have wealth to gain, and nothing to lose. After all, if they did, why did Bush Sr save the Kuwaiti oil fields in 1990 and not depose Saddam for War Crimes then? Like father Like Son..

"Lesso already responded with a list of Muslim attorcities, I'd suggest you read them unless you had too much Kool Aid."

And I responded to Lessop. I suggest you read my reply. Obviously, your bigoted mentality won't change, but give it a read anyway. In the mean time, should I consider you a TERRORIST. My guess, you are Christian. Your Brotheren have MURDERED around 7 million people in this past century! I guess that qualifies you as one, since you are grouping all Muslims in the same boat. So from this point on, when we say Terrorist, this will be including you and your Fellow Christians.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by jc100:

And yet...

In the house, you will see 64 voted no. Only 3 Republicans. Hence, I do blame democrats, but not all. On the other hand, the Republicans voted unanimously to piss away your rights. At least 66 democrats between the house and senate spoke their mind. It's more than the opposite party did.

I am steadfast right by saying ALMOST UNANIMOUS. So while you might have corrected me on saying 1 or whatever, I WAS NOT FAR OFF. So the point stands. THREE REPUBLICANS and 61 DEMOCRATS. Thats 20X times the Republicans. POINT AND MATCH.!
Contradiction in the same post. Almost unanimous does not equal unanimous. You = owned again.

said by jc100:

Um they aren't crying. They are CONTINUING to try and pass bills.
Yeah, Nancy Pelosi is really changing things in Congress. Is that why the DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED CONGRESS has a lower approval rating than the President?

said by jc100:

And I responded to Lessop. I suggest you read my reply. Obviously, your bigoted mentality won't change, but give it a read anyway. In the mean time, should I consider you a Terrorist. My guess, you are Christian. Your Brotheren have MURDERED around 7 million people in this past century! i guess that qualifies you as one, since you are grouping all Muslims in the same boat.
ASSumptions own you again. Keep grasping at straws. Still looking for those black helicopters circling your house?

And you did not respond to his list of Muslim atrocities.

»Re: They have endangered our society.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

2 edits
An overstatement is not an inaccuracy. Its simply an overstatement. It doesn't make my point any less valid that three Republicans versus 64 Democrats voted against it. Tit for tatt. You sound like a baby whining on semantics. Either way, MOST OF THE REPUBLICANS, voted to STRIP AMERICANS of our rights. IE. Republicans obviously do not Cherish America. What happened to small government. We have more to fear from the Republican Right and A Sizeable portion of Democrats voting for this Molarchy than we do the terrorists. It's the Republican right who have sold our rights away on a fictitious sense that terrorists are out to get us, just like the big bad boogy man.

"Yeah, Nancy Pelosi is really changing things in Congress. Is that why the DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED CONGRESS has a lower approval rating than the President?"

That's because the Republicans aren't letting legislation pass. More or less the hatred for Republicans put the Democrats in office. Unfortunately, those stay the course Republicans would rather see our boys die, than come up with a real plan. They had four years of TOTAL control to do so. Guess what, they offered us NOTHING but more problems and heartaches. America is FED UP NOTHING is being accomplished. It's by no fault of the Democrats now who are trying, but having their plans rejected by the IGNORANCE of the Republican Party not wanting a solution.

As for LESSOP. I thought you meant this post. I'm not going to respond to his timeline. You can tell me what you wish, but that timeline doesn't prove much at all. Muslims havent murdered around 10 million people historically.

Millions of Muslims dead during the Crusades.

Millions dead during the Spanish Inquisition. That same rhetoric you're tossing out now. Convert or Die.

Six million Dead During the Holocaust. Hitler, the Methodist, and Catholic Church Per perpetrated this.

Last, but not least, 100-200,000 Dead to to Christians in Bosnia.

So TERRORIST, which mantra do you follow? A hatred for your fellow man and people different than yourselves. Obviously, Christians love thy neighbor so much, that they just kill them. Or do we go with the logic of Christians overwhelming tolerance for Gays and Blacks historically? We're not even factoring in the deaths and hate crimes committed there. I know, we'll right you off as a Bigot and Terrorist along with your buddy Lesop. After all, if all Muslims are Terrorists, then so are ALL Christians. His timeline didn't even pale to the MURDEROUS history of your religion. POINT AND MATCH!!! Case CLOSED!

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by jc100:

An overstatement is not an inaccuracy. Its simply an overstatement. It doesn't make my point any less valid that three Republicans versus 64 Democrats voted against it. Tit for tatt. You sound like a baby whining on semantics. Either way, MOST OF THE REPUBLICANS, voted to STRIP AMERICANS of our rights. IE. Republicans obviously do not Cherish America. What happened to small government. We have more to fear from the Republican Right and A Sizeable portion of Democrats voting for this Molarchy than we do the terrorists. It's the Republican right who have sold our rights away on a fictitious sense that terrorists are out to get us, just like the big bad boogy man.
Backpeddle boy, backpeddle. Overstatement = inaccuracy.

If the Democrats can't control Congress then why did they say they were going to clean things up?

said by jc100:

That's because the Republicans aren't letting legislation pass. More or less the hatred for Republicans put the Democrats in office. Unfortunately, those stay the course Republicans would rather see our boys die, than come up with a real plan. They had four years of TOTAL control to do so. Guess what, they offered us NOTHING but more problems and heartaches. America is FED UP NOTHING is being accomplished. It's by no fault of the Democrats now who are trying, but having their plans rejected by the IGNORANCE of the Republican Party not wanting a solution.
Again, the Democrats are just as bad if not worse for the political BS they spoon fed you and the rest of the moveon.org idiots.

said by jc100:

As for LESSOP. I thought you meant this post. I'm not going to respond to his timeline. You can tell me what you wish, but that timeline doesn't prove much at all. Muslims havent murdered around 10 million people historically.

Millions of Muslims dead during the Crusades.

Millions dead during the Spanish Inquisition. That same rhetoric you're tossing out now. Convert or Die.
Millions during the Spanish Inquisition? Care to back that up with facts or are you trying to shovel more BS.

said by jc100:

Six million Dead During the Holocaust. Hitler, the Methodist, and Catholic Church Per perpetrated this.

Last, but not least, 100-200,000 Dead to to Christians in Bosnia.

So TERRORIST, which mantra do you follow? A hatred for your fellow man and people different than yourselves. Obviously, Christians love thy neighbor so much, that they just kill them. Or do we go with the logic of Christians overwhelming tolerance for Gays and Blacks historically? We're not even factoring in the deaths and hate crimes committed there. I know, we'll right you off as a Bigot and Terrorist along with your buddy Lesop. After all, if all Muslims are Terrorists, then so are ALL Christians. His timeline didn't even pale to the MURDEROUS history of your religion. POINT AND MATCH!!! Case CLOSED!

And the same argument you push for Christianity applies to Muslims too (since you love to paint with a broad brush.)

Iranian Revolution where hundreds were executed for not being Muslim enough. Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Technology is bad, music is bad, alcohol is bad, uncovered women should be stoned.....the list goes on.

That glass house of yours must have a lot of broken windows.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
Backpeddle? NO. Correct an overstatement yes. I can admit I misquoted. However, a mistatement where the numbers are close is not a real fallacy. 0 or three. Tit for TATT. It's a very MINIMAL number.

"If the Democrats can't control Congress then why did they say they were going to clean things up?"

I said they are TRYING. I didn't say they are succeeding. Why aren't they? Their bills are being defeated by Anti-America Republicans who wish to see more of our boys die, yet offer no real solutions themselves. In the four years of 100 percent control, what solutions did they bring us? Please tell me how Iraq is solved and we're not there. Bush was the Hero of the day, and everything ended peachy. O wait, Bush said stayed the course, the Republican Rubber Stamp congress didn't solve anything, and we're still in a quagmire. All the time, Democrats are at least making an effort. This effort is of course being shot down by those same Republicans.

"Millions during the Spanish Inquisition? Care to back that up with facts or are you trying to shovel more BS."

Unfortunately, there are no hard numbers. Records didn't exist. All that can be proven is large numbers of people fled. My guess would be hundred of thousands, maybe more. Once again, records don't exist that validate much. However, look at any genocide and one can easily see millions flee when they occur. To assume the same didn't happen would be naive. Here's one take on the genocide of the Inquisition.

»www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso···ion.html

More information follows below. Most was gathered from various places.

Some predict 150,000 Trials took place, of which some led to death. There are no real numbers of who died as a result. Let's not forget, when you factor those killed as a result of the war, you must factor in deaths of refugees. This is something their estimates do not.... The number is in the air. The one article claims 3-4 percent of 150,000 died directly (5000), yet no hard evidence is offered. Frankly, no one knows since records sucked. For all you and I can argue, every one of those people could have died, and it can't be disproven. On the other hand, the low numbers could be right. Its impossible to settle on a figure. Either way, my argument stands even if not millions, probably 10s of thousands up to maybe 100,000 or more when you factor in the refugees who probably fled and fell victim to the ailments. This is a valid assessment, as today when war refugees flee, the factor them in to the death toll.

Finally, I stated bad behavior is bad behavior. What makes you a Terrorist also makes those who support Muslim Fanaticism one. Obviously, your steadfast belief in Christianity and it's bad deeds, also applies to all. Since you are hardline defending the back actions of the church, you are no different than the radical Muslims defending suicide bombings. I did state this. You just can't read.