kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: First Admendment Right
said by TKJunkMail  :said by justin147 :We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? For the last 20years I have always assumed I was being listened to on the phone and now on the internet. Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. Ohhh, yeah, we know that.  Major head, major... major! In order! The nurse is coming! Take your pills and get off the computer... |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
 ·Charter Pipeline
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to TransitMan
Wait, what?
When did Bill of Rights apply to corporations? By the people, of the people, for the people. Don't see "company" or "corporate" in there anywhere. When companies became the new indivudual, this country went to hell because now the "rights" afforded come to protect the businesses and not the people who use them. People can't compete with the lobbying power of businesses.
Now everything these days is "for the good of business" and not "for the good of the people". Sad.
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norm
@verizon.net
 from:
TKJunkMail
| reply to ken11
said by ken11 :
There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. Very true- although the government would generally have to violate a whole lot of other rights in order to violate your privacy. Taken as a whole, the bill of rights and all the follow-on laws pretty much ensure privacy, even if there's no explicit right.
The problem is with the telcos who, as I understand it, had no legal requirements to give up their customers phone records. I just haven't seen anyone who can point to an actual law they've broken... |
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ken11
@geusnet.net
from:
TKJunkMail
| reply to kamm
ROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'..
There is finally one person that gets it. There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. I'm surprised it took half a page for someone to bring this point up. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it. Well, you have bigger problems than someone listening in on your phone. When you get back, the FBI may be doing more than listening in. Keep an eye out for the people following you around after your stated plans to overthrow the government are read. I am sure some FBI or NSA computer has already digested your statements.
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
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| reply to TKJunkMail
It explains a LOT about your positions. It must be a very sad world you live in. A world filled with fear and loathing. A world where there are bad guys everywhere. A world where you EXPECT to be monitored. I thought we had gotten past that when we defeated the nazi's, but apparently you are still living in the 1940's, where the citizens are AFRAID of their government.
That's wrong on so many levels. It explains why you post what you do, because you see a 'terrist' behind every door, and you want the gestapho to protect you from the bad me.
I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it.
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. ROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'...
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail : Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time. That is true but there is a world of difference between a craftsperson listening to a call (officially for maintenance purposes) and a Telco or ISP making customer information available to law enforcement without a warrant.
/Tom |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| reply to justin147
said by justin147 :We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? For the last 20years I have always assumed I was being listened to on the phone and now on the internet. Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time.
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justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :Umm, NO! Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it.. I agree, giving away customers' personal data is not protected by the First Amendment! It is not freedom of speech nor press. It does, however, violate their customers right to privacy (Fourth Amendment) which is something the bush administration and numerous major corporations have been doing lately! Now they just want immunity from the law? I'm rather appauled by this. |
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
1 edit | reply to TransitMan
Couldn't agree more that it's a violation of rights. It is the 4th though not the 1st that was trampled here. |
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TransitMan
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join:2000-09-05
Dayton, OH
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. At least businesses forewarn you prior to talking to somebody that your call may be recorded or monitored. Then if you proceed with the call, then you have given them consent to do so.
If you do not give consent, you merely hang up.
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
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1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
They have a right to LISTEN to you conversation? Where do you get THAT from? Any time I call support, they ALWAYS say 'this call may be monitored, blah blah'. If I make a phone call, I have the EXPECTATION of privacy. AND, in most areas, you cannot RECORD a phone call unless both parties are aware.
The telco's flaunted the bill of rights, and should pay the price. If the price is they go bankrupt, then so be it. BUSINESS is NOT ABOVE THE LAW. If they WANT to be a 'person' under law, then they are subject to the same laws we are.
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
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| reply to Cabal
Umm, NO!
Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it..
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Verizon and the others ILLEGALLY provided data and communications to the government WITHOUT a WARRANT. What part of 'unreasonable searches' and 'but upon probable cause' don't you understand. I'll summarize it for you. The government has NO RIGHT to monitor you UNLESS they have SPECIFIC information that you are engaged in criminal activity. That's why we have the justice department, to put a muzzel on 'heil bush', who quoted the bill of rights as 'just a piece of paper'.
The problem is that these companies KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY violated ALL our rights. They should be sued into oblivion.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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| reply to TransitMan
said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights?
said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated.
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| reply to TransitMan
The article is about warrantless wiretaps, and you think this is a FIRST Amendment issue? I weep for our (clearly underfunded) schools.
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TransitMan
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join:2000-09-05
Dayton, OH
clubs:
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·Earthlink TrueVoice
| I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES.
Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. Big business does not have the right to take away those rights, under no circumstances, unless one broke the law.
The government under "King" George has taken our freedoms and liberties and have tried to use them against us.
Enough, I say. Let the lawsuits proceed in the courts, where the real criminals must fess up.
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