Good for them in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19152555 en Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:10:26 EDT Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:10:26 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19161377 CableConvert : ...and those options are? Funny how people throw out lines like fact with no back up...who are they??? My parents are also on the GA line. They are too far away from the nearest CO for dsl...examples lets see examples. FYI...just because you "qualify" according to the teleco...does not mean you can get service. They often tell customers they qualify only to inform them on the install date that they are in fact too far from the co. They have told me for years I qualify...when I know that I am too far to receive service. I'd say you are the one not so educated]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19161377 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:31:51 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19159282 yock : I suspect you're right. My own city has three broadband providers, but none of which have any plans to offer FTTH service just yet because Verizon has zero infrastructure here. No doubt Chattanooga is in a similar boat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19159282 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:55:03 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19159194 odog :
said by yock See Profile :

No, he was making the point that no private company has yet wanted to do this in the region because of the cost. If private industry sees this as an inviable option, turning it into a government project doesn't suddenly make it fiscally responsible.
If Chattanooga was part of VZ's territory they probably would have started building at least part of it already. All the private enterprises care about is ROI, median income, homes per mile. The metrics a private enterprise uses are more tight, but Chat has the homes per mile and income that would have justified doing FIOS there. It probably would only hit the burbs, and not the low income sections but the metrics are there so they would build it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19159194 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:38:41 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19157602 battleop : There are more than 2 that can do DSL in Chattanooga. America Internet, Chattanooga Online, Networks Inc, and VPNtranet all have pipes that peer into the AT&T DSL ATM Cloud. There are some other national ISPs like Earthlink that also peer into the ATM network.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19157602 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:12:25 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19157156 JimF :
said by pcnetworx1 See Profile :

Well, then do you think a resource allocation solution to the first come first serve is a good idea? Such as the spectrum should just be requested by XYZ corp, the public votes if it should, XYZ corp gets spectrum "for free", then the FCC makes sure that XYZ corp utilizes the spectrum most efficiently to the public's wishes, and if not revoke the license, or prompt a sale to somebody to change the operations owner?
Maybe, but that isn't the issue with fiber. You could lay as many as you want. It is not using a common spectrum. But to make a long story short, if private corporations are not interested in doing it, then the likelihood that the public sector will do it more efficiently is not very great from what I have seen. Good luck to them though.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19157156 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:56:30 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19156708 pcnetworx1 : Well, we know what happens when that is done now *cough* Verizon wiring ALL of Pennsylvania for 45 mbps *cough*

Well, then do you think a resource allocation solution to the first come first serve is a good idea? Such as the spectrum should just be requested by XYZ corp, the public votes if it should, XYZ corp gets spectrum "for free", then the FCC makes sure that XYZ corp utilizes the spectrum most efficiently to the public's wishes, and if not revoke the license, or prompt a sale to somebody to change the operations owner?

Holy run on sentences Batman!

Intriguing idea just written even though somewhat bloated wording.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19156708 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:39:03 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19156649 JimF :
said by pcnetworx1 See Profile :

Anybody remember from history who funded the first US rail line? Or how about land grants to make the transcontinental railroad?
Yes, but the government only gave the land to the railroad companies, who built and operated the railroads. It was the equivalent of giving cash, except that the taxpayers did not have to fund it directly. Do you propose that Chattanooga give money to the cable companies or telcos to build it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19156649 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:30:05 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155557 Yauch : Yes, because *all* technological advances were the direct result of government intervention. It's a wonder we don't still kill mammoths with rocks and wear their fur.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155557 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:19:55 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155536 Yauch : Even with that awesome wifi connection I've got in my cardboard box in the alley, for some reason I still feel poor.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155536 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:16:08 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155392 battleop : If you are that far out in EB then you won't get EPB FTTH. It's only in the City Limits of Chattanooga. Not East Ridge or Red Bank or Harrison Ooltewah or North Georgia or any other place where EPB's Power monopoly exists. So if you live out side of the city limits there is a chance you will pay %2 for something you could have never had to begin with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155392 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:53:39 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155377 battleop : PM me what neighborhood they are in and I will tell you what choices they really have.

And BTW Ringgold borders East Brainnerd. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155377 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:50:53 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155245 anon : Your parents are uneducated about their situation. I live in E Brainerd, almost to the furthest extreme point of E Brainerd before the road crosses into GA, and I have at least 2 options for DSL, one option for Cable. I can't believe there is a physical address anywhere in E Brainerd that does not qualify for DSL service. And as pointed out, this is a local government competing against private business. Let's see, they own a hotel, a power company, a telecom, tried to buy the water company.... yeah, I'm thrilled that my city government is spending my tax dollars this way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155245 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:40:26 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155267 pcnetworx1 : To keep going on this little thought, without government intervention, railroads would be quite possibly non-existent.

Anybody remember from history who funded the first US rail line? Or how about land grants to make the transcontinental railroad?

Would you *like* to travel everywhere by stagecoach still? Because with your current thinking; that's what you'd have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155267 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:30:12 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155011 yock : No, he was making the point that no private company has yet wanted to do this in the region because of the cost. If private industry sees this as an inviable option, turning it into a government project doesn't suddenly make it fiscally responsible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19155011 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:50:23 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154688 BF69 :
said by Kearnstd See Profile :

the government paid for most of the electric grid too because the companies back when the grid was being built basicly said rural areas where unprofitable.
and the phone lines in rual areas too. And back then people bitched about tax payer dollars going to LUXURY things like, electricty, running water and phone service. Anyone that doubts me can go look it up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154688 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:06:03 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154462 Kearnstd : the government paid for most of the electric grid too because the companies back when the grid was being built basicly said rural areas where unprofitable.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154462 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:29:59 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154455 openbox9 :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Because in the US anyone can sue anyone over anything.
Don't forget the whole unfair competition thing funded by a bottomless pit of taxpayer money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154455 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:29:31 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154446 axus : What about all the people getting access to fast broadband service than they would have gotten otherwise? That sounds like a form of wealth to me. Government pays for other things like voting machines that don't create wealth, but we still want them]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154446 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:28:14 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154290 anon : Like any location in the US where a municipal utility has entered the communication space - if the Incumbent had provided a reasonable service with an eye towards the future with decent customer service then the muni would have never gone down the road.

Chattanooga is no back woods community. Their BOD and City Council are sophisticated business men and women. They all voted unanimously to go forward with the project. Therefore, they must feel the Incumbent has failed and the community would be better served by the muni (much like electricity was brought to much of this country).

Could it be because Comcast has a 450 MHz plant in Chattanooga (worst in the US)? Could it be because Comcast was rated as one of the 10 worst customer service companies at MSN? Could it be because the community wants to have access to next-generation broadband similar to FiOS, Japan, Korea, and other fiber focused countries? The answer is probably yes to all. Comcast can sue all day long but they made their bed of feces and now they will have to lay in it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154290 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:27:53 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154344 CableConvert : Dont know about Ringgold GA, but my parents live in East Brainard (actually in Chattanooga), and its Comcast or dial up...thats it. So forgive me but your first assumption that affordable high speed broadband provides choice is wrong...incorrect, a lie. Do your research before you make comments like that. I asked my parents WHO RESIDE IN CHATTANOOGA what they thought...and they are thrilled with having a choice. They have had rotten service with Comcast. Appointments where no one shows up, outages, incorrect billing, wrong equipment sent out, etc. I say if the people who reside there want it...it does not matter what we think]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154344 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:15:40 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154339 openbox9 : But that's what karlmarx's wealth redistribution is all about. It doesn't matter if everyone loses, so long as everyone is on the same playing field and has the same thing. Ok in theory, but in practice, it suffers horribly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154339 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:14:54 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154336 TK Junk Mail :
said by Kearnstd See Profile :

why do incumbents even have a right to sue cities that want to deploy their own broadband networks?
Because in the US anyone can sue anyone over anything.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19154289 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:07:11 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153963 odog :
said by dadkins See Profile :

said by odog See Profile :

Ummm....FIOS? Last time I checked VZ was a public company, but they are definitely a business and very much looking to make an eventual profit. They obviously believe in GPON/FTTH as an effective delivery method for VVD.
FiOS?
Where do you see Verizon in this?
»www01.epb.net/index.php?page=new···s&id=136

»www.epb.net/

There is more to fiber than just Verizon's FiOS.
From what I can see, this will be a EPB project - not Verizon.
He was trying to make a point that no private business would do this because of the money it costs. I wasn't inferring that VZ was involved just pointing out that the second largest phone company in America is doing the same exactly thing on a much larger scale. If anything the costs would be the same if not cheaper than VZ as they have caused the cost of GPON gear to go down in price dramatically.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153963 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:16:04 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153761 Richard B : Excuse me the problem is no wealth is being generated. All you are doing is transferring dollars from one person to another. This is the classic broken window fallacy. You are telling the baker yes it huts that government takes his share of the 200,000,000 but the installers will buy more bread from him (not always true). The problem is you are not factoring in the baker out of x amount of dollars. In turn he will pass the cost on to the consumer in the way of higher prices and he is out of dollars that he could had use to better himself or his business like hire help or invest in new equipment. It ends up as a net loss for those involved. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153761 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:42:59 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153636 dadkins :
said by odog See Profile :

Ummm....FIOS? Last time I checked VZ was a public company, but they are definitely a business and very much looking to make an eventual profit. They obviously believe in GPON/FTTH as an effective delivery method for VVD.
FiOS?
Where do you see Verizon in this?
»www01.epb.net/index.php?page=new···s&id=136

»www.epb.net/

There is more to fiber than just Verizon's FiOS.
From what I can see, this will be a EPB project - not Verizon.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153636 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:22:19 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153601 openbox9 : Where have you been? Haven't read your "down with government, free everything for everyone" viewpoint for a while.
said by karlmarx See Profile :

But you just answered your own question. "TAXPAYER MONEY". Why should comcast/at&t or any other company be allowed to ride on TAXPAYER MONEY.
Because if a corporation is doing business, they're paying taxes...often times, a lot more than you or I do.
said by karlmarx See Profile :

The TAXPAYERS think this is a good idea. Comcast and AT&T don't. Suprised? I'm not. What's good for the taxpayer isn't good for the megacorps. That's what this is all about, a network FOR THE PEOPLE.
Great, but my original comment/point is still valid and should be addressed before you can have a network "for the people".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153601 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:16:10 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153433 karlmarx : But you just answered your own question. "TAXPAYER MONEY". Why should comcast/at&t or any other company be allowed to ride on TAXPAYER MONEY.

The TAXPAYERS think this is a good idea. Comcast and AT&T don't. Suprised? I'm not. What's good for the taxpayer isn't good for the megacorps. That's what this is all about, a network FOR THE PEOPLE.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153433 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:47:27 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153364 openbox9 :
said by Yauch See Profile :

That's outdated thinking. Networks should be public owned like roads. Sure they're forcing your to buy the cars to drive on the roads too, but that's beside the point.
That sounds great, but the problem is that EPB is taking taxpayer money, building their network to provide their services. Does EPB plan to open the network up for anyone to connect to and sell services? After all, if a publicly owned network, the public should be able to do business on the network...including AT&T, Comcast, etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153364 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:35:42 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153247 battleop : "Sure they're forcing your to buy the cars to drive on the roads too, but that's beside the point"

That's the whole point. Maybe if they allowed ISPs access to the network (not free access) like they promised with MetroNet. The city originally tired to offer Metronet as a Fiber Transport. ISPs would have bought into Metronet to reach businesses in Chattanooga. None of the ISPs really bought into it because it had a poor technical design. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153247 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:15:11 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153240 MrMoody : Sure it will cost more, fiber never installed costs $0.

It's telling that the incumbents start suing every time a municipality tries to give its citizens what they want.
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"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153240 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:13:20 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153172 Yauch :
said by battleop See Profile :

Too bad EPB does not behave like a utility. They are taking tax payer dollars to compete with Private Businesses. It would be one thing if Private business was not supplying HSI but there is very good coverage in Chattanooga from multiple providers.
That's outdated thinking. Networks should be public owned like roads. Sure they're forcing your to buy the cars to drive on the roads too, but that's beside the point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153172 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:01:46 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153150 battleop : Too bad EPB does not behave like a utility. They are taking tax payer dollars to compete with Private Businesses. It would be one thing if Private business was not supplying HSI but there is very good coverage in Chattanooga from multiple providers.

Between Fiber, Wireless, DSL, and Cable just about every address in Chattanooga has at least 2 of these options. EPB Claims that we do not, and that the fastest speed in town is a 1.5Mb T1. EPB claims that Comcast is the only choice for "Cable Tv" They have never heard of Direct TV or Dish Network, and yes they both carry locals.

It should also be noted that it will cost around $1,500 per EPB customer (not served customer) to install the network. If the network fails it will become a 2% rate hike for all EPB customers.

The city fails to understand that this will not hurt Comcast or AT&T, it will only hurt the local providers in Chattanooga. Comcast and AT&T make billions each year. They have the resources and very deep pockets to level EPB. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153150 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:55:41 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153144 ieolus : Its a reflexive action he has towards any type of activity that doesn't spawn from his beloved monopolies.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153144 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:54:08 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153036 Yauch : Sure the installers and employees will live in the county. That's $12/hour flowing right back into the community. Too bad they have to spend $200 million up front before the citizens start seeing their taxes come back $12 at a time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19153036 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:33:47 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152802 nasadude :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

.... on the usual graft and waste of local government...
unlike our national government, not all local governments are run by people that don't believe in government. Lots of government employees believe in government and try hard to make it work.

do you have specific information that tells you the local or state government is corrupt?

or is your statement a generalization of your belief that government is automatically dysfunctional and that all functions could be better handled by the private market?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152802 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:50:50 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152673 karlmarx : How do you get that? Their TAX dollars will flow right back into the community. Most likely, all the installers and employees will be citizens of the county, so, dollar for dollar, they are pumping it right back into their local economy. Vs. Comcast, who outsources all their work overseas, that means when people pay their comcast bill, the money is gone forever.

I'm willing to wager that every dollar they spend will provide much more LOCAL economic activity than ANY return they get spending money on comcast. I don't mind if my taxes go to pay LOCAL people, who spend their money LOCALLY.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152673 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:25:59 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152666 odog :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I doubt the citizens will feel so approving of government when their hard earned tax dollars are spent on the usual graft and waste of local government and the fiber installed costs more than any private business would incur.
Ummm....FIOS? Last time I checked VZ was a public company, but they are definitely a business and very much looking to make an eventual profit. They obviously believe in GPON/FTTH as an effective delivery method for VVD.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152666 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:24:31 EDT Re: Good for them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152627 TK Junk Mail : I doubt the citizens will feel so approving of government when their hard earned tax dollars are spent on the usual graft and waste of local government and the fiber installed costs more than any private business would incur.
--
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Internet News
My BLOG
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A quote from the article.
"the true purpose of government was to do what is best for the people it serves" and "What I relish is the idea that I will now have a choice. That is the most wonderful tool a consumer can have when dealing with a monopoly because it enables you to tell “Mrs. Rude” or “Charlie I-Don’t Care” what they can do with their wire."

The more the megacorps try to tighten their grip, the more communities will slip through their grasp.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19152555 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:59:46 EDT