Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| Cut them some slack...
Folks..
Here is a company that is doing it RIGHT.
And, by right, I mean one that bit the bullet..and told their investors and shareholders that this company is NOT going to be left behind in the broadband race..and IS going to build a world class FTTH network.
And, they're doing it. To the tune of megabucks..billions of dollars. (25 billion or so?)
Do you and I want the latest and greatest technology or some old tired worn out copper crap lying in the roads probably since the titanic sunk?
Well, GUESS WHAT? It costs them to do this..and these prices are certainly very reasonable considering the huge investment they are making.
For all intents and purposes..these ARE the same prices cable companies charge. And, it also goes to show that when you want REAL speeds and technology..this is what it costs the Telcos as well.
I've long argued on this website that DSL is simply no bargain. Wrap it up with that landline and compare speeds versus speeds..and you'll see that it's downright EXPENSIVE compared to cable HSI.
But now, there's a new kid on the block..a telco willing to do what it takes to really compete..and you and I should support them in their efforts.
Or..simply don't be the one to bit** when AT&T come's a callin on your door..and wants to hang a vrad on your lemon tree.
Because that's where it belongs. Right before they haul it off to the scrapyard and finally get the right idea..to do this right.
Verizon..is doing it right.
Support them.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Its all fine as long as Verizon leaves the copper connected.
Even with the rate hikes the price/performance ratio sems reasonable. But people should still have the option of going with the $14.95 "value DSL" if that's more suited to thier needs.
If VZ doesn't want to reconnect the copper, they should offer a comparable 768/128 tier over FIOS. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| With the price of copper these days, I'd be very suprised that they wouldn't be selling it as scrap copper ($$$$).
Its all business. Business means we will charge as much as people are willing to pay.
POTS in general is on its way out, as people are not willing to pay +50/month for something that can be had over cell phone or VoIP for less.
People are still willing to pay for TV (those with HD ... even more so). Some just want plain old rabbit ears.
Internet...will vary. Some will pay +$40/month for 3-6Mbps DSL or Cable
Some will pay +$50/month for 10Mbps or more, and some are unwilling to pay more than $20-$25/month.
Sales people have to find out the sweet spot and either bundle it (disguise it for some with over priced POTS) or through some other means make it look attractive.
Who really wants to pay + $125/month for TV, phone or Internet ($1500 / year!). That's almost half a car payment.
If I was closer to L.A., I'd have rabbit ears and save up to $60/month on TV alone
--
Canada = Hollywood North |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
|  reply to Rick
Rick, you are absolutely right. Verizon laid out a lot of cash for this FTTH, the only Provider that has done this. People are always looking for that Free Lunch, but if you want state of the art technology you have to pay for it. You will see in the near future other Providers will have to upgrade their Networks just to keep up with Verizon. |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| reply to Rick
I am not cutting them some slack. Cablevision has been keeping up and will be cheaper then fios. If Fios wants more customers on long island they will have to stay price competitive on Long Island. IF they start raising their prices and cablevision doesn't then people wont switch over. |
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w4ncr
join:2000-10-27
Wilmington, NC
| reply to Rick
Iwould pay any price to get Verizon Service where I live instead of the copper crap I have to deal with from AT&T
all you lucky dogs getting Verizon Fios. All I have is DSL 6-mbps service ADSL2+ every night I look at my stats which are going downhill sometimes even lose sync, and guess what I am only about 7000 feet from the CO, and the copper is about twenty five years old, and no talk ever of fiber or a lemon box at my condo.
PLEASE VERIZON COME TO WILMINGTON N.C. WITH FIOS, WE NEED YOU!!!!!!! |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
|  reply to majortom1029
said by majortom1029  :I am not cutting them some slack. Cablevision has been keeping up and will be cheaper then fios. If Fios wants more customers on long island they will have to stay price competitive on Long Island. IF they start raising their prices and cablevision doesn't then people wont switch over. The Key Words are "Keeping Up," that's all the rest of the Providers can do. I keep telling you guys, FTTH is the future, everything else is second rate. That Big Pipe is needed for all our Digital Needs. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: | reply to majortom1029
cablevision is a great company with great products, services and prices.
The competition is good for sure in fios/cablevision areas.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 27th, @08:02PM
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :Well, GUESS WHAT? It costs them to do this..and these prices are certainly very reasonable considering the huge investment they are making. I couldn't care less about their expenses deploying a new technology. They are doing it for one reason, and one reason only-- profit. They would not have put strand-one in the ground if they didn't think it would pay back their $25 billion investment many times, over time.
At work we continually upgrade our equipment. Old servers get replaced with new ones after a certain life cycle. Legacy 10M hubs got replaced with 100M switches, and now 10 years later those switches are being replaced with Gig-E.
Infrastructure gets upgraded, but WE DO NOT increase our prices because it's part of the cost of doing business.
What's the difference between us and Verizon?
Verizon has a near monopoly. We do not. We have to remain competitive or risk losing business to competitors. Verizon does not because, for now, they are the only FTTP provider and raise prices "because they can".
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :Folks.. Here is a company that is doing it RIGHT. And, by right, I mean one that bit the bullet..and told their investors and shareholders that this company is NOT going to be left behind in the broadband race..and IS going to build a world class FTTH network. And, they're doing it. To the tune of megabucks..billions of dollars. (25 billion or so?) Do you and I want the latest and greatest technology or some old tired worn out copper crap lying in the roads probably since the titanic sunk? Well, GUESS WHAT? It costs them to do this..and these prices are certainly very reasonable considering the huge investment they are making. For all intents and purposes..these ARE the same prices cable companies charge. And, it also goes to show that when you want REAL speeds and technology..this is what it costs the Telcos as well. I've long argued on this website that DSL is simply no bargain. Wrap it up with that landline and compare speeds versus speeds..and you'll see that it's downright EXPENSIVE compared to cable HSI. But now, there's a new kid on the block..a telco willing to do what it takes to really compete..and you and I should support them in their efforts. Or..simply don't be the one to bit** when AT&T come's a callin on your door..and wants to hang a vrad on your lemon tree. Because that's where it belongs. Right before they haul it off to the scrapyard and finally get the right idea..to do this right. Verizon..is doing it right. Support them. A fibre company "doing it right" would be offering SYMMETRICAL SPEEDS. fibre is more than capable of providing specially since theres max 32 subs on a node!
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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Fiosguy2
@verizon.net
| reply to majortom1029
Re: Cut them some slack...
Cablevision Stinks.
I have the Internet from FIOS and it kills CV. Besides that article was wrong on a couple of points.
VZ canceled the DVR increase. It never went up here. Also the NEW price for FIOS triple play on Long Island is now $84.95 for 2 yrs. Price went down ..... |
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ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
September 28th, @12:30AM
| reply to alchav
I have to say these prices are for people who don't take an annual contract...The letters are being mailed out to any customer not on an annual contract...with no contract you pay $47.99..annual agreement..$39.99/$42.99 depending on your market. VZ's marketing/PR dept needs a FiOS upgrade, alarming good month to month customers with a frightening price increase, when all they need is an annual plan...Go figure...and did every FiOS internet customer received this letter ?? Bundled plans should remain as is....maybe that's the idea ?? |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
| reply to rebus9
I highly doubt your companies costs are near what Verizon has to pay for FIOs. they did not have high prices to begin with because they needed customers to order the service. Not all businesses can run the same way and yes - it is about making a profit after spending huge sums of money and getting enough profit to help pay for more expansion. I have yet to see the problem. Service companies HAVE to do this or else they would never be a viable company.
a few switches are not in the same league with creating a fiber network - not even in the same universe. |
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rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 28th, @11:25AM
| said by CylonRed :I highly doubt your companies costs are near what Verizon has to pay for FIOs. a few switches are not in the same league with creating a fiber network - not even in the same universe. You don't think very far outside the box, do you?
GTE/Bell/et al, which merged over time to become what is now Verizon, put copper in the ground and on poles decades ago and they've been riding that cash cow ever since. Now they're putting fiber in the ground and will be milking that cow for decades more.
No, our costs are not on par with Verizon, but neither are our revenues. When you compare OUR revenues vs. equipment turnover costs, with VERIZON's revenues vs. equipment turnover costs, it would be obvious they get a longer/higher return on their equipment investments than we do.
Verizon had no choice but to lay fiber. Their copper has been out there since the Korean War in many places-- and in our area since at least the 60's. It's old, brittle, corroding-- not to mention they've been getting their bloody asses kicked for years by the cable companies providing way faster internet service.
Replacing infrastructure every few decades is part of the cost of doing business, and they have already budgeted for it. This is nothing new, and it's not hurting them financially. FIOS is a long-term, profitable investment for Verizon.
Plus, they HAD to do it to get into the lucrative cable TV business, because they can't deliver 200 channels over miles of 50 year old copper.
It was not negative revenue on FIOS that forced their price increase. Bottom line, the reason they did it was they know "FIOS is a smash it, everyone wants it, and we can raise the price because people will STILL want it."
VZ has the goods, nobody else does, and they know people like you will pay any price to get it.
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
| Bottom line is- they have to provide profit to continue replacing the structure or investors will leave them - period - it is as simple as that. It is a long term investment certainly - that does not really change anything.
It has already been mentioned in this thread at least one cable company is doing the same speeds and there is no reason to believe they will suddenly stop providing more speed as needed.
Telephone companies don't replace their infrastructure every decade or so - they go much farther out which raises the prices to replace. Just be glad they did not have Congress pass legislation so that the entire US pays for their fiber build out.
Anyone who did not see this coming - has got blinders on purely based off the cost to deploy alone. |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
| reply to rebus9
said by rebus9 :said by CylonRed :I highly doubt your companies costs are near what Verizon has to pay for FIOs. a few switches are not in the same league with creating a fiber network - not even in the same universe. You don't think very far outside the box, do you? GTE/Bell/et al, which merged over time to become what is now Verizon, put copper in the ground and on poles decades ago and they've been riding that cash cow ever since. Now they're putting fiber in the ground and will be milking that cow for decades more. Verizon had no choice but to lay fiber. Their copper has been out there since the Korean War in many places-- and in our area since at least the 60's. VZ has the goods, nobody else does, and they know people like you will pay any price to get it. Rebus, what planet do you come from? Granted, the Copper Infrastructure was laid centuries ago, but calling it a Cash Cow is not even close. That Copper Infrastructure still had to be maintained. The Telco's have never been loved, but they have struggled through the years, and Customer Service has always been on top of their list.
Verizon didn't have to go with FTTH, and cut their cost with FTTP and use existing Copper like AT&T. I think they made a wise choice, but the customer base is just not up to expectations. So I think to answer to their Stock Holders, prices have to go up. Everybody likes cheap Broadband, but the reality is High Technology is not cheap. |
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rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 28th, @04:20PM
| said by alchav :Rebus, what planet do you come from? Granted, the Copper Infrastructure was laid centuries ago, but calling it a Cash Cow is not even close. That Copper Infrastructure still had to be maintained. The Telco's have never been loved, but they have struggled through the years Excuse me? Telcos struggling? Hmmm, let's see:
AT&T: mktcap 258.5B, share price 42.40, P/E 21.78, EPS 1.94
VZ: mktcap 128.5B, share price 44.28, P/E 21.04, EPS 2.105
AT&T and VZ are 2 of the 30 components that make up the Dow.
Get the idea? They're doing QUITE well. To suggest they are struggling is nothing more than P.R. dis-information.
As for copper maintenance, yes of course, it has to be maintained. But their large initial investment in laying that copper has payed off HANDSOMELY.
And as for the cost of fiber, it is LESS expensive over time to replace copper with fiber than it is to replace copper with new copper. Their infrastructure is in decay and it has to be replaced. They chose to do it the smart way.
Copper is limited bandwidth. There are only so many frequencies you can pack onto it, and distance is a factor.
Fiber is nearly unlimited. In 1999, a fiber pair could carry a circuit, typically OC-3, OC-12, or if you were really fat, OC-48. Now OC-192 is commodity, and OC-768 is soon becoming the next "standard".
But guess what? It doesn't end there. Just 8 years after this huge "gotta lay it NOW before we totally run out of capacity" fiber buildout, much of that is still sitting dark. Why? Because we are getting 80 x 10 Gbps waves (80 x OC-192) on a single pair. Five or 10 years from now, that will probably be 1000 x OC-768 waves, which is basically more bandwidth than a mortal can fathom by today's standards.
Either you work for a phone company, invest heavily in telcos, or haven't fully thought your argument through.
I should also note that Road Runner did a huge HFC deployment of their own. No, it's isn't fiber all the way to my house, but there is fiber within approx 50 yards of my property. Close enough. And they're still charging the same price as they did when they provided RR over their old coaxial network.
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dav0r
translate
Premium
join:2003-06-15
Albertville, MN
·Charter Pipeline
·Embarq
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :Here is a company that is doing it RIGHT. Totally agree. Well said. |
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