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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
reply to TKJunkMail
Re: **BREAKING NEWS** RIAA Wins lawsuit

I'm not terribly surprised.. What was her defense?

"I didn't do it.. "


TKJunkMail
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1 edit
 reply to howrman
»www.marketwatch.com/news/story/j···DB981%7D
A federal-court jury on Thursday found a Minnesota woman infringed on copyrighted material by sharing music files over the Internet in the first such case to go to trial.

Jammie Thomas had been sued by six record companies in U.S. District Court in Duluth, Minn., in 2006 for sharing songs by artists such as Destiny's Child and Green Day via the popular online service Kazaa.

A jury on Thursday ordered Thomas to pay $9,250 for each of 24 of those songs, for a total of $222,000, according to court filings.
An extensive discussion of the jury results can be found in this news item:
»www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···er=japan

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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
reply to Couch Potato
Re: First RIAA Lawsuit Heads to Trial

Because they paid, before hand, to have it in the statue. I believe it's $700-$150k per song. That's quite a gap eh?

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
reply to woody7
It depends what she has to defend herself. Remember, they only have to be 51% right. There's really no innocent until proven guilty in Civil court, since both sides are technically citizens.

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS

reply to Doctor ASCAP
Re: Oh! Yes, Copyright Infringements Can be Criminal

Well that's case law against a corporate entity. Which I would assume would mean they were selling copyrighted material. Which is actually stealing. There's no legislated criminal law on the books for making a copy of something, with no money changing hands. Case law should only be viewed narrowly, especially because it is so often over-turned.


supergirl

join:2007-03-20
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reply to howrman
Loss of HD is Really Bad for the Defendant

said by howrman See Profile :

The "loss" of the hard drive is very bad for the defendant. It allows the jury to infer that she destroyed the hard drive because it contained incriminating evidence. That helps the RIAA establish liability and, perhaps more importantly, it makes the defendant look bad to the jury. Moreover, the story about Best Buy replacing the drive without the defendant's permission shortly after she received a letter from the RIAA just doesn't ring true to me. As a result, my guess is that, this case may make some good law for the RIAA.
The plaintiff only has to assert "spoilation" on the defendant's part. The woman had a duty to preserve the evidence (the HD). Judges aren't too sympathetic to a party that spoils possible evidence. Judges have even thrown the book at parties in a lawsuit that spoiled evidence that had nothing to do with the case since it made them look guilty.

Why the RIAA isn't arguing spoilation in a summary judgement request (motion) is beyond me.
--
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-Supergirl


Doctor ASCAP

@wideopenwest.com

reply to Ahrenl
Re: Oh! Yes, Copyright Infringements Can be Criminal

I at one time was involved with suing individuals and there businesses in Federal Court for copyright infringements. And yes, Copyright Infringements Can be Criminal...

United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U. S. 131,
158 (1948). And deliberate unlawful copying is no less an
unlawful taking of property than garden-variety theft.
See, e.g., 18 U. S. C. §2319 (criminal copyright infringement); §1961(1)(B) (copyright infringement can be a predicate act under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt
Organizations Act); §1956(c)(7)(D) (money laundering
includes the receipt of proceeds from copyright infringement).

Couch Potato
What?
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join:2004-08-29
Evansville, IN
reply to howrman
Re: First RIAA Lawsuit Heads to Trial

If they can't prove they have any actual damages then how/why are they entitled to anything ?!

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS

reply to tc1uscg
Naah, Civil case only requires a preponderance of evidence. That means they basically just have to prove that there's a better than not chance that she downloaded something.

Also, it would get tossed from lack of evidence in the Grand Jury deliberation, which, if this is going to trial, has already happened.


Anonymous_
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reply to howrman
said by howrman See Profile :

said by woody7 See Profile :

you could change your own drive and who would know.
It's very easy to figure out when a hard drive has been formatted/installed.
i can set my time in my bios to an date before hand

so nice try


tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI

reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl See Profile :

It's absolutely a civil case. First and foremost, there is no criminal copyright law. Secondly, the RIAA is bringing the case, only the government can bring a criminal case. You can't criminally charge someone else, you have to have the DA do it.

Finally, I'm sure the RIAA has some vague IP sniffer data that nobody on the jury will understand, that the defendants lawyer will have to try and debunk. That will most certainly result in that glased eye look you get from the majority of people when you mention any type of computer process.

The icing for the RIAA is that they can blame failure on the "suspicious" disappearence of the defandants HD. So they don't have to worry about creating negative case law.
In that case, the judge will toss it out of court due to lack of evidence and they have the burden to prove she told BB to remove it. Maybe she never heard of the program "kill disk" or maybe she did. Played stupid and BB fell for it, swapped out her HD. Regardless. Evidence is circumstantial and without the drive, that's about as far as it will go. Think they can make her take a poly?

Hanko

join:2001-12-28
Eatonville, WA
reply to howrman
Just change the date and time in the bios before you add in the HD and make sure the HD was manufactured before the Date and time you specify..

WirelessMajr
Premium
join:2005-08-03
College Place, WA

reply to howrman
With regards to Geeksquad/BestBuy, having worked in Geeksquad...

It all depends on what was wrong with the unit when it was checked in, or what the computer was brought in for. If it was brought in because it had a heavy spyware/virus infection (highly likely), and the drive failed diagnostics tests, then (under warranty) the drive would be replaced (under terms of warranty).

If that was the case, and the BestBuy to which she took her machine did not return the customer her drive, then the customer is not at fault.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to howrman
I'm not doubting you but do you have a link to the statute? I'd like to read it.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

reply to Neyland
What's the case? Illegally possessing, illegally sharing or both? If they are trying to prove she illegally shared the song, does the sharing software she used contain a download counter? Is that what they will use for proof that it was downloaded x times?

If they cannot prove how many people downloaded it, then I agree. In fact, I think it's even worse. It's like owning a really fast car doing 35 in a 35. The cop assumes you are guilty because you drive a really fast car and he knows you have been speeding even if you aren't speeding now...

But -- this is a civil case where the burden of proof is not as strict as criminal. (i.e. The glove doesn't have to fit!)

howrman

join:2000-07-08
Philadelphia, PA

reply to Neyland
It's illegal to offer a song for downloading, even if nobody took the defendant up on her offer. The number of times a song was actually downloaded is only relevant to the extent that it bears on the RIAA's actual damages. However, I suspect that the RIAA will seek only statutory damages (i.e. the amount specified in the statute). If so, the RIAA won't have to prove that it had any actual damages. Statutory damages are set precisely because it may be difficult or impossible for a plaintiff to prove actual damages.


woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
reply to howrman
It doesn't matter when the drive was changed, my point was that is they are just stating the an ip addy was used to upload/download music without any other proof. Is that enough in it's self to win?
--
BlooMe


Neyland

join:2003-02-04
USA

reply to howrman
I'm just curious.. I could say, create a song sharing web site and log all the visitors there. Take a random sampling of my web logs, dummy a tool, screen shots what have you allege visitor xx was hosting a song...

I'm asking because I'm no lawyer....

How can they prove how many people actually got a file from her?

I mean wouldn't that be like a police officer pulling you over for doing 40 in a 35 and fining you for 200 in a 35 because you're in a car capable of the speed?

howrman

join:2000-07-08
Philadelphia, PA

reply to Neyland
The RIAA's proof will consist of documentation that, at a specified date and time, IP address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx was sharing a song whose rights have been assigned to the RIAA. Further, the RIAA will produce proof from the defendant's ISP that, at the time of the alleged infringement, that IP address belonged to the defendant. Lastly, (and most problematic) the RIAA will have to prove that the defendant had control of the computer when the alleged infringement occurred. That should constitute a prima facia case. Since the hard drive was lost by the plaintiff, the RIAA cannot and will not have to show that the protected song and sharing software existed on the hard drive.

howrman

join:2000-07-08
Philadelphia, PA

reply to woody7
said by woody7 See Profile :

you could change your own drive and who would know.
It's very easy to figure out when a hard drive has been formatted/installed.
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