reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| Home run and NID wired
Hi all,
I'd like to install a home run to my DSL modem. I used to have Cox Cable for my phone service and they have installed a NID outside my premise. Cox connected their outside wiring to the NID box and the NID has a wire going from the customer access side to the station protector which connects to my inside wiring.
During the switch to AT&T, the technician bypassed the NID and has the AT&T outside wiring connected directly to my old style station protector instead. I just called AT&T to see if they can route their outside wiring to the NID instead of the station protector and the repair representative told me all they're responsible for is making sure there's dial tone at the station protector. If I need them to wire it to the NID, there will be a charge of $45 for the first 15 min and $16 for each additional.
Is AT&T required to connect their outside wiring through the NID or would I have to pay for them to wire it? Is there a way I can do it myself?
Thanks. |
|
wayjac
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-22
Indy | If you can use hand tools and connect wires you could do it yourself.
Can you post some pictures of the nid with the cover open and the station protector.
--
God bless our troops |
|
reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| 
NID and Station Protector |
said by wayjac  :If you can use hand tools and connect wires you could do it yourself. Can you post some pictures of the nid with the cover open and the station protector. I've attached the picture. On the left is my NID. On the right is the old station protector. From the picture, you can see a wire going from the NID to the station protector that Cox Cable did. After the switch to AT&T, the tech severed the cable and power is fed directly to the station protector. With the AT&T line connected directly to the station protector, I have no way to disconnect it safely to work on the wiring. When I measured the voltage, it measured at 50 volts. |
|
tonydi
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-11
San Jose, CA
| reply to reef
Doesn't look like the NID that Cox put in is like the normal Corning/Siecor boxes I'm familiar with. I don't believe the filter module for those boxes will work with your NID.
I think the easier solution is to just install a separate splitter. The following thread has a recent discussion about the splitter and how to install it...
»Internet drops when making or receiving phone calls |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to reef
DSL splitter and NID. | 
How I would add a splitter. |
said by reef :I've attached the picture. On the left is my NID. On the right is the old station protector. From the picture, you can see a wire going from the NID to the station protector that Cox Cable did. After the switch to AT&T, the tech severed the cable and power is fed directly to the station protector. With the AT&T line connected directly to the station protector, I have no way to disconnect it safely to work on the wiring. When I measured the voltage, it measured at 50 volts. 50 VDC sounds about right:
»www.google.com/search?client=ope···one+line
I believe that the NID in your picture includes a component to convert CDV to regular telephone? The test jacks are tied to the cable side of things? Cox would have just run the pair to the station protector, and disconnected the premises wiring from the terminals; using "beanies" to splice to your premises wiring?
I've never examined a cable company telephone connection up close and personal, but I don't see how AT&T can utilize that cable NID.
I have included a screen shot of a regular telco NID with a "whole house" DSL splitter. I'd leave the Cox NID out of it. I bought the splitter from HomeTech Solutions. They have a retail outlet less than two miles away; but they also do mail order and Internet business.
In your case, I'd just remove the cable end at the Cox NID.
Disconnect the premises wiring from the customer side of the station protector.
Re-connect the end of the Cox wire that AT&T disconnected to the customer side of the station protector.
Connect the end of the Cox wire removed from the Cox NID to the "Network" terminals of the splitter. At this point you should have dial tone to the "Network" terminals on the splitter.
Add a wire run to the "Voice" terminals in the splitter, and splice it to the house wiring with those "beanies".
Add your home run from the modem location to the "Data" terminals of the splitter.
P.S. Adding a screen shot to show how I would make the connections.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to reef
If that "NID" was installed by COX, then it belongs to them. You would have to move your wiring from that nid to the at&t location, or pay at&t to do it for you. This will be an ongoing issue when customers move from provider to provider, you will have to be able to move your own wiring or pay to have it done for you. Just be glad that they both are in the same general location on the home.....
--
R.I.P. Moby 1964 - 2007 |
|
reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| reply to NormanS
Thanks for the suggestion. I've already ordered the POTS splitter and hooked it up. See picture above. However, when I hooked it up, I made the assumption that AT&T will be able to use the existing Cox NID. I've connected the Network side of the POTS splitter to the customer access side of the terminals for the NID.
The NID Cox installed has both a service access side and a customer access side. When I had Cox before, I would be able to unplug the modular jack on the customer side to do tests to see whether its a inside wiring problem. If AT&T cannot use the same NID, should I ask them to install a new NID? Based on what you suggested, I would be able to hook up a line directly from the Station Protector into the Network terminals of the POTS splitter. My concern is working directly with the station protector itself. The wires are live and there is no modular jack within the station protector for me to disconnect to work on the wiring.
Thanks. |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by reef :Thanks for the suggestion. I've already ordered the POTS splitter and hooked it up. See picture above. However, when I hooked it up, I made the assumption that AT&T will be able to use the existing Cox NID. I've connected the Network side of the POTS splitter to the customer access side of the terminals for the NID. I suspect that AT&T won't be able to use the Cox NID. Doesn't Cox run coax to the company side of the NID? Wouldn't AT&T have to shift their drop from the station protector to the NID?
I would just take the Cox NID out of the loop altogether.
The NID Cox installed has both a service access side and a customer access side. When I had Cox before, I would be able to unplug the modular jack on the customer side to do tests to see whether its a inside wiring problem.
Exactly. That is what the test jacks are for.
If AT&T cannot use the same NID, should I ask them to install a new NID?
You could, but I don't know what company policy is for a customer request. I had a problem on my voice line, and when a tech found out I had DSL on the line, he expressed surprise that they had left the old station protector in place. He only had the NID box used for voice service, but he hooked it up in place of the station protector.
Based on what you suggested, I would be able to hook up a line directly from the Station Protector into the Network terminals of the POTS splitter. My concern is working directly with the station protector itself. The wires are live and there is no modular jack within the station protector for me to disconnect to work on the wiring.
When the phone tech replaced the station protector with the NID box, he worked on the live wiring. When I added the splitter, I worked on the live wiring. If you have a nut driver of the proper size for the terminal nuts on the station protector, not much will happen. If you draw sparks, not much will happen. You definitely should unplug all CPE before you begin. Unhook from the customer side of the station protector first. Get all your wiring to the splitter, and premises wiring splices done while you are "offline". Last step after all else is hooked up would be reconnect to the customer side of the NID.
If you don't feel comfortable around live DC voltage, by all means, call AT&T and schedule a NID install.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
wayjac
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-22
Indy
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to reef
I think the cable company made use of the preexisting telco nid by installing an adapter...... coax to wires
A little bit of electrical tape applied to one of the telco pair should take care of your concern with live wires, along with only handling one wire at a time.
--
God bless our troops |
|
reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| reply to NormanS
Thanks. I took your advice and bypassed the Cox NID. Now I have it wired directly from the Station Protector into the POTS splitter.
The home run seems to be working now. Although the SNR did improve from 12.5 to 16, the Attenuation remains unchanged at 63.5db. I would imagine it would have decreased a tiny bit since I have the old quad type cables in my IW. I'm using Cat 5 cables for the home run. I have the speed stream 4100b. Is there anything I need to do for it to remeasure the attenuation or does it do it automatically? |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | Line attenuation is, primarily, a measure of loss over a given length of wire. Short of changing the wire gauge (thickness) of the F1 (assumes this is copper) and F2, there is nothing that you can do to change it.
You don't get to change things with with the F1 (from the CO to the B-Box) or the F2 (from the B-Box, RT, or VRAD to the premises).
FWIW, I rewired from the old four-conductor station wire (16 gauge) to four-conductor CAT3 (26 gauge), and added a home run. My SNR changed very little (less than 1db) and my attenuation not at all.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| said by NormanS :Line attenuation is, primarily, a measure of loss over a given length of wire. Short of changing the wire gauge (thickness) of the F1 (assumes this is copper) and F2, there is nothing that you can do to change it. You don't get to change things with with the F1 (from the CO to the B-Box) or the F2 (from the B-Box, RT, or VRAD to the premises). Actually attenuation is also a function of any bridged taps that may be hanging on your line.
If your attenuation for the total CO distance is not reasonable you may have a big tap on your line. |
|
reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| said by public :Actually attenuation is also a function of any bridged taps that may be hanging on your line. If your attenuation for the total CO distance is not reasonable you may have a big tap on your line. My modem is reporting a hybrid value of 3 on startup. According to the FAQ, a hybrid #3 indicates a Bridged tap condition or in home wiring tap located 50'-250' from modem. However, it also indicates that the value may be incorrect for a speedstream 4100B modem. The only indication I have a speedstream 4100B modem is the label on the bottom of the modem. The technician readout page on lines 3 and 4 of my modem indicates a speedstream 4100.
3 Model Number 4100
4 Friendly Name SpeedStream 4100 ADSL Modem
Lines 9 and 10 indicate my firmware and software versions. I'm not sure if whether I have a 4100 or 4100B is indicated by the version numbers.
9 Modem DSL Firmware Version a7.00.02.00
10 Modem Software Version 1.0.0.63
In anycase, when I contacted the AT&T direct forum, they ran a line test and indicated I'm 13,800 feet away from the CO. My current attenuation is 63.5db. That seems rather high for being 13,800 feet away. I've seen other posts that has less attenuation with a longer distance away from the CO. |
|
public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| said by reef :In anycase, when I contacted the AT&T direct forum, they ran a line test and indicated I'm 13,800 feet away from the CO. My current attenuation is 63.5db. If most of the run is #26 cable, it is an reasonable value. |
|
tonydi
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-11
San Jose, CA
| reply to reef
That's a 4100b and a hybrid 3 really corresponds to a hybrid 1 in the FAQ. I'm sure Matthew in Direct would have checked for a bridged tap so I'm with public on the wire gauge thing. |
|
reef
join:2007-07-20
Mission Viejo, CA
| said by tonydi :That's a 4100b and a hybrid 3 really corresponds to a hybrid 1 in the FAQ. I'm sure Matthew in Direct would have checked for a bridged tap so I'm with public on the wire gauge thing. Matthew will be helping me tomorrow to check for a bridged tap. |
|
tivoboy
join:2004-05-10
Menlo Park, CA | reply to NormanS
I'm just reading here, but I gotta say, NormanS you rock! What a contribution and effort, editing photos, putting in so much detail. Quite a contribution indeed. You guys all need a raise or bonus or some sort of recognition!
TB |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA | I'd settle for a job (in between at the moment). |
|
