BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by dodgetech2  :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. its logical to conclude that if they were losing vast amounts of money to piracy, they would do more then just give out a press release stating that we shouldn't pirate their shows. | |
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hmmm
@tel-ott.com | when people with no money and no plans to buy the material take it, how would you value it? 58 billion? | |
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Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
 ·Knology
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Surely you are not suggesting that pirating costs businesses $58,000,000,000? | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by TKJunkMail :Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. 
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justaguy
@lmco.com | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Your screen name is amazingly appropriate | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So should we effect change..or just take it?
The Revolutionary Army was "criminal"...until they won.
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Hangmn :said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So should we effect change..or just take it? The Revolutionary Army was "criminal"...until they won. Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? I'm 100% sure that when people enjoying their pirated versions of movies and music that are doing it for the "greater good" and are thinking about their contribution to your so called "revolution" and not doing it for their own selfish desires. | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by BF69 :Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? I'm 100% sure that when people enjoying their pirated versions of movies and music that are doing it for the "greater good" and are thinking about their contribution to your so called "revolution" and not doing it for their own selfish desires. And I suppose you are going out to Best Buy every week and buying this swill like a good little consumer?
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| The rampant piracy of content, while it has caused a bunch of bullshit spin and lawsuits has also led to the creation of:
iTunes
Yahoo Music
Real Rhapsody
eMusic
Napster (legal version)
MTV Urge
Zune
Movielink
CinemaNow
BitTorrent Store (legal version)
Vongo
Amazon UnBox
Netflix
Blockbuster Online
Are these options all good ones? Most certainly not. Some are absolutely unusable and are no real step in the right direction. Some however, are quite popular and pretty good (iTunes, Netflix) alternatives to piracy.
Sure, the content "mafiaa" should abandon DRM and get with the program full force instead of pushing out more asinine half-hearted attempts like Vongo, but the fact remains that if there was no rampant piracy of content, digital download services either would be far far worse or would not even exist at all.
As for the statement of $58b in "piracy losses" per year, that's 100% pure bullshit. | |
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| | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by BF69 :Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? Ah, there is the rub. I don't trade in pirated **AA content. If it isn't worth paying to see it, it isn't worth seeing at all.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So many people are in prison in the US because the Laws are out of control, and the legislatures are bought and sold every day...
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. And that there is the main reason. Buying laws should send people to prison.
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People pray to God because they're told to. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. People are buying laws so that they can send people (others) to prison 
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Hangmn :said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So many people are in prison in the US because the Laws are out of control, and the legislatures are bought and sold every day... You're right! Damn those laws against murder, rape, child molestation and drug dealing!!!!!!!! | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by BF69 :You're right! Damn those laws against murder, rape, child molestation and drug dealing!!!!!!!! You are truley showing your ignorance son
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»davescustompc.com | |
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| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | You were doing so well until you threw "drug dealing" into the mix... | |
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| Yeah right laws against child molestation. What a fucking joke those laws have been made into lately. People that do that should be put down like rabid dogs, but these days we have people in jail for longer for copying DVDs or possessing a little bit of weed. Child rapists are constantly being let out of jail early or given light sentences. Disgusting. | |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24 | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. I'd vote for it, lets do it. | |
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| | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Yeah, it's because you can go to jail for having a roach in your ash tray. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by yabos :Yeah, it's because you can go to jail for having a roach in your ash tray. First of all pot is ILLEGAL. If you wish it not to be do something about it or move to Canada or Alaska. Secondly in most states just having a roach in your ashtray won't get you any jail time. Maybe a years probabtion at most. Thirdly if you are that dumb to leave a roach in your ashtry for the cops to find maybe you deserve jail. | |
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| | | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON
| Yeah it's illegal and I won't argue about whether it should be or not but it'd really dumb they would throw someone in jail for such a small amount when the person isn't hurting anything. If they have 10lbs in their trunk then throw the book at them but when the person isn't hurting anyone except perhaps themselves it's not a good thing to throw someone in jail for that.
I don't live in the States but I do watch Cops and they arrest people for things like that. They say "oh it's not a big deal but we're arresting you.." | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net | Move to Denver. If the cops find an ounce or less it's legal. | |
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| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by TKJunkMail :Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. (bolding mine)
Call us when you actually have some data to back that supposed theory you have outlined here since, as the facts would stand, it is wrong.
Maybe we should start locking people up who state things as fact without data to back it up... Hmmm.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
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| | justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. NO, NO, NO, people are not that stupid. Most educated people don't wonder, but rather lament the fact so many people are in prison in the US. The vast majority of U.S. prisoners are non violent offenders. You Wana lock someone up now and force me to pay my taxes to in-prison a broke college student who likes to listen to music and shares his collection with other like minded students? Get Real. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. Because incarceration is big business and big profits? | |
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| | Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. If more bankers were in Jail I might agree | |
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| st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| said by Hangmn :said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get I couldn't agree with you more. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Hangmn :said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get So you're the "cut your nose to spite you face" kind of guy huh? Yes screw big business which only provide the JOBS that provide Americans with the moeny they need to live. Real fricken smart. I am assuming you know what a JOB is. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Small businesses create the jobs that provide Americans with the money they need to live. Big businesses just fuck that up.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Draxsr :
The sub-prime "screw up's" aren't a government problem. It's a greed problem. The people in this country have issues with living within their means. No one forces one to sign a mortgage without giving it your own due diligance. Opting for an absurd, adjustable rate rests solely on the moron signing the paperwork. And I'd love to meet the moron who signs up for an 'interest only' mortgage where their payments pay ONLY the interest and nothing on the principle. It's what happens when someone making 30K/year thinks they need to live in a 300K house. It's sad and those morons do not deserve to be bailed out by the taxes others, who know how to live within their means, shell out. IMHO, YMMV.
That is a perfect statement, and one I wish I made myself.
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ | |
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Bas
@comcast.net
 from:
madrhino
bear73
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by superdog :said by Draxsr :
The sub-prime "screw up's" aren't a government problem. It's a greed problem. The people in this country have issues with living within their means. No one forces one to sign a mortgage without giving it your own due diligance. Opting for an absurd, adjustable rate rests solely on the moron signing the paperwork. And I'd love to meet the moron who signs up for an 'interest only' mortgage where their payments pay ONLY the interest and nothing on the principle. It's what happens when someone making 30K/year thinks they need to live in a 300K house. It's sad and those morons do not deserve to be bailed out by the taxes others, who know how to live within their means, shell out. IMHO, YMMV.
That is a perfect statement, and one I wish I made myself. The problem with your little theory is that in most suburban areas next to a MAJOR CITY a 1200 square foot house on a postage stamp sized lawn costs $250,000.00. So where do you suppose people should live, a cardboard box? | |
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| | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Bas :
The problem with your little theory is that in most suburban areas next to a MAJOR CITY a 1200 square foot house on a postage stamp sized lawn costs $250,000.00. So where do you suppose people should live, a cardboard box?
Plenty of larger and cheaper places are available, in places like North Philadelphia, Camden, East St. Louis, Anacostia, etc.... | |
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drdaleemille
join:2000-06-17
Norfolk, VA
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? I have an M.A. in economics and I still need someone to explain to me what economic loss means in this context. Suppose that I pirate TV shows, and because I don't spend my money on cable I am able to make bigger car payments, so I buy a more expensive car. Or I am able to invest more, which gives businesses more capital. Has the national economy lost anything, or is it a wash? NBC may have lost, but does the U.S. lose? | |
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| ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. OUTSTANDING summary of the imaginary vs actual impact of file sharing. Thank you for posting! | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by ross :OUTSTANDING summary of the imaginary vs actual impact of file sharing. Thank you for posting! The NEW study being discussed here isn't just MUSIC ONLY like the studies you quote. It also includes movies, books, etc.
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My BLOG
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by TKJunkMail :The NEW study being discussed here isn't just MUSIC ONLY like the studies you quote. It also includes movies, books, etc. From ArsTechnica:
"Study: P2P effect on legal music sales "not statistically distinguishable from zero"
By Ken Fisher | Published: February 12, 2007 - 08:49AM CT
A new study in the Journal of Political Economy by Felix Oberholzer-Gee and Koleman Strumpf has found that illegal music downloads have had no noticeable effects on the sale of music, contrary to the claims of the recording industry.
Entitled "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," the study matched an extensive sample of music downloads to American music sales data in order to search for causality between illicit downloading and album sales. Analyzing data from the final four months of 2002, the researchers estimated that P2P affected no more than 0.7% of sales in that timeframe.
The study compared the logs of two OpenNAP P2P servers with sales data from Nielsen SoundScan, tracking the effects of 1.75 million songs downloads on 680 different albums sold during that same period. The study then took a surprising twist. Popular music will often have both high downloads and high sales figures, so what the researchers wanted was a way to test for effects on albums sales when file-sharing activity was increased on account of something other than US song popularity. Does the occasionally increased availability of music from Germany affect US sales?
The study looked at time periods when German students were on holiday after demonstrating that P2P use increases at these times. German users collectively are the #2 P2P suppliers, providing "about one out of every six U.S. downloads," according to the study. Yet the effects on American sales were not large enough to be statistically significant. Using this and several other methods, the study's authors could find no meaningful causality. The availability and even increased downloads of music on P2P networks did not correlate to a negative effect on music sales.
"Using detailed records of transfers of digital music files, we find that file sharing has had no statistically significant effect on purchases of the average album in our sample," the study reports. "Even our most negative point estimate implies that a one-standard-deviation increase in file sharing reduces an album's weekly sales by a mere 368 copies, an effect that is too small to be statistically distinguishable from zero."
The study reports that 803 million CDs were sold in 2002, which was a decrease of about 80 million from the previous year. The RIAA has blamed the majority of the decrease on piracy, and has maintained that argument in recent years as music sales have faltered. Yet according to the study, the impact from file sharing could not have been more than 6 million albums total in 2002, leaving 74 million unsold CDs without an excuse for sitting on shelves.
So what's the problem with music? The study echoes many of the observations you've read here at Ars. First, because the recording industry focuses on units shipped rather than sold, the decline can be attributed in part to reduced inventory. Gone are the days when Best Buy and others wanted a ton of unsold stock sitting around, so they order less CDs. The study also highlighted the growth in DVD sales during that same period as a possible explanation for why customers weren't opening their wallets: they were busy buying DVDs."
I think it's likely the above referenced study is equally applicable to movies, books, etc.. Other independent studies have established file sharing has aided, rather than sapped, industry profitability through these transitional times. It is high time the industry embraced the futility of DRM, and the success of file sharing as a low cost distribution channel.
Astro-turf "think tanks" like IPI are the handmaidens of industry propaganda machines, cheerfully creating, for a fee, fallacious fantasy-fulfilling "reports/studies" in support of the illogical and unbelievable spew of industry PR departments. | |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH | Makes me want to go POP some CORN now! | |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by BF69 :Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? How would you design a metric to determine what the **AA is losing to piracy? Do you assume that every pirated copy of a movie is a lost sale? On what basis do you make that assumption? What if nobody offered pirated content, and sales remained at their current levels?
The **AA estimates their losses by first taking a WAG at how many copies of Titanic the public would buy, if they couldn't get a pirated copy. Then they take a WAG at how many pirated copies are floating around on the Internet. They subtract the second WAG from the first WAG, and derive the dollar amount of sales not made; but the result of their wagging is: WAG/A - WAG/B = WAG/X.
A WAG is still a WAG, no matter how the **AA spins it.
NOTE: WAG = Wild Assessed Guess
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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