Yauch
join:2005-06-24 | reply to pnh102
Re: Punish the Snitchers
I would just assume that a court order would be sufficent incentive. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Yauch  :I would just assume that a court order would be sufficent incentive. It would be... but if the legal climate exists in which phone companies will be punished for cooperating with law enforcement, they will fight such orders to the hilt.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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KraziJoe
join:2006-09-08
Alexandria, VA
·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :said by Yauch :I would just assume that a court order would be sufficent incentive. It would be... but if the legal climate exists in which phone companies will be punished for cooperating with law enforcement, they will fight such orders to the hilt. That's just absurd. The talk of lawsuits is because the Telco's just handed over the information without a Court Order.
The FBI/NSA just showed up and said gimme information and they did. THAT is the problem and that is why the people are suing... |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by KraziJoe :The FBI/NSA just showed up and said gimme information and they did. THAT is the problem and that is why the people are suing... The government has been doing this sort of thing for years. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when it was determined that "having a problem" could be useful for political attacks.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| Or when it was determined that their actions were...you know...
Illegal.
I think you'll agree that this is the main problem in America today, we have all these "laws" that just get in the way of law enforcement. If only we could remove all these so-called "laws" that provide "protection" to our citizen's "civil rights", it would be so much easier to protect the people of the United States. After all, America was founded on the ideals of "complete safety from any bad thing", and if you read your constitution, you'll see that your personal safety is guaranteed 100% of the time under every possible circumstance. I still don't understand where all these smelly hippies get this whacko idea that they have "rights", I've looked all over the constitution and I don't see that anywhere.
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Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
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Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
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·ViaTalk
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The government has been doing this sort of thing for years. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when it was determined that "having a problem" could be useful for political attacks. Regardless of how long they've been doing it, it's still illegal. The constitution is the highest law of this country. Once we turn it into a guideline, there is no longer a basis for our government. It's called a slippery slope... |
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NewMariner
join:2005-06-24
| said by Cogdis :said by pnh102 :The government has been doing this sort of thing for years. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when it was determined that "having a problem" could be useful for political attacks. Regardless of how long they've been doing it, it's still illegal. The constitution is the highest law of this country. Once we turn it into a guideline, there is no longer a basis for our government. It's called a slippery slope... I believe it is a guideline, or else we wouldnt have amendments... |
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qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
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4 edits | reply to CrazyFingers
Uhm HELLO??? McFly???
I see that you support the police state, where our freedoms are flushed down the toilet for 'convenience'. Despite the bu**shit you've been told (and you apparently took-hook, line and sinker!), this has nothing to do with fighting terrorism! There are plenty of ways for law enforcement to get whatever they want or need. This is simply a way for them to be able to do "fishing expeditions". See, to keep the govt. from infringing on the rights of its citizens, there are safeguards in place to protect us. Law enforcement needs to go to court and convince a judge that any intrusion into the private life of its law abiding citizens is outweighed by the public benefits of doing so. It's not a complicted thing to do, but it IS an important check. This system has served us well through the centuries, including MANY wars! Now, you and your ilk seem Hell bent on flushing our protected rights and freedoms down the toilet! Maybe you are so paranoid that you need the govt. to 'protect' you, but unlike you, I believe that the average citizen needs protection from govt. intrusions more then we need protection from terrorists.
See, the way our political system works best is when the citizens have a healthy DISTRUST of the govt. WE are the fourth branch of the government-it's up to us the citizens to keep corruption in check! Your way of blind: "yup, yup, yup" obediance puts us on a slippery slope towards fascism!
Look, if you're SO concerned about your "personal safety" then get your state and city to put more cops on the streets of our cities and towns. You're MUCH MORE LIKELY to be injured or killed by a robber, gang member or drunk driver then a terrorist. Police walking the beat in our neighborhoods are FAR MORE EFFECTIVE in preventing crime then some big computer bugging all our phone calls and emails is! |
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Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
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| reply to NewMariner
Re: Punish the Snitchers
Constitution: fundamental law: law determining the fundamental political principles of a government.
If the constitution is amended, that amendment becomes LAW.
Nobody can choose which laws they want to follow. Not even the president. |
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disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| reply to CrazyFingers
Maybe, but if you start from the premise that terrorists hate us for our freedoms - the inverse must also be true, the terrorists love us for our laws. Obviously our founding fathers couldn't anticipate this, but fortunately our fearless leaders have recognized that by dispensing with some laws, they're removing the succor and solace they provide to the terrorists. I can only imagine how much this has put the terrorists into a shambles. Even more so since by dispensing with some laws, the Bush administration is in essence increasing freedoms, thereby taunting the terrorists with the very thing they hate. The nation terrorized becomes the provocatuer - take that you terrorists! |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Cogdis
said by Cogdis :If the constitution is amended, that amendment becomes LAW. Nobody can choose which laws they want to follow. Not even the president. Unless he chooses that option in the signing statement. |
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CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| reply to qworster
Re: Uhm HELLO??? McFly???
Settle down there sparky.
Take a deep breath.
Now, click here: »dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm
Now, go back and read it again.
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Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to CrazyFingers
Re: Punish the Snitchers
I agree. We should protect you from everyone and yourself too.
So effective immediatly, we're going to lock you up in a small room with no windows or connection to the outside world. We'll hold you there forever. You'll be safe and protected never have to worry about being harmed by anyone ever again!
Enjoy!
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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fatness
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The government has been doing this sort of thing for years. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when it was determined that "having a problem" could be useful for political attacks. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when they learned it was happening.
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Sure, that'll work.. |
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Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by KraziJoe :The FBI/NSA just showed up and said gimme information and they did. THAT is the problem and that is why the people are suing... The government has been doing this sort of thing for years. The only time people started "having a problem" with it was when it was determined that "having a problem" could be useful for political attacks. You sit there and defend practices that Kim Jong Il would be proud of. And once again we are supposed to rely on your baseless assertions: all is well: Bush knows what he is doing: "they" hate our freedom: Rush is right: Fox News is the only real news.. "war is peace", "freedom is slavery"; "ignorance is knowledge" and on and on and on it goes. Baseless assertion after baseless assertion...
YAWN
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Getting your news from Bill O'Reilly is like getting your nutrition from deep-fried Ding Dongs.
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | reply to qworster
Re: Uhm HELLO??? McFly???
He was poking fun at it all.. I got it.. so calm down and don't forget to pass..  "puff puff pass" you know.. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Cuchulainn
Re: Punish the Snitchers
said by Cuchulainn :Bush knows what he is doing: And you only prove that I am correct. If it was someone other than Bush doing this, then we'd not hear anything about it.
I always yawn when I hear the anti-USA left whine about civil rights. It is plainly clear that they're in the tank with the enemy in this war, and they will pull any sort of stunt they can over here to help the enemy win. Whining about this BS is just another feather in their cap.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD
·Verizon FIOS
| said by pnh102 :said by Cuchulainn :Bush knows what he is doing: And you only prove that I am correct. If it was someone other than Bush doing this, then we'd not hear anything about it. I always yawn when I hear the anti-USA left whine about civil rights. It is plainly clear that they're in the tank with the enemy in this war, and they will pull any sort of stunt they can over here to help the enemy win. Whining about this BS is just another feather in their cap. Allow me to retort:
Your utterly baseless assertion was that Bush is right. Not mine.
I always yawn then I hear the xenophobic, jingoistic "proud-patriot since 9/11/01" right whine about how we shouldn't worry when the liberties enshrined in the First, Fourth and Eight Amendments (to name but a few) are trampled time and time and time again. Trampled by an utterly incompetent administration that can't even figure out who the "enemy" is. It's clear that they do not have the first idea about the meaning of the Constitution they claim to defend (well, the anachronistic Second Amendment anyway). Resorting to regurgitated Rush/Hannity/O'Reilly platitudes is the extent of their mental dexterity.
PS - I've just spent eight of the last ten years abroad serving my country. Just what exactly is "anti-USA" about that??? 
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Getting your news from Bill O'Reilly is like getting your nutrition from deep-fried Ding Dongs.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Then what are you complaining about? You should be happy the Bush administration is keeping the military in business.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by Cuchulainn :Bush knows what he is doing: And you only prove that I am correct. If it was someone other than Bush doing this, then we'd not hear anything about it. I always yawn when I hear the anti-USA left whine about civil rights. It is plainly clear that they're in the tank with the enemy in this war, and they will pull any sort of stunt they can over here to help the enemy win. Whining about this BS is just another feather in their cap. So you're saying that if it was anybody else that violated our civil rights nobody would care 
Regardless of who is listening, giving that kind of power to a small group of people opens the door to corruption. Do you even realize the kind of profitable information that can be obtained through this system? Eventually, there WILL be somebody who can't resist that temptation.
How much are NSA agents paid anyway? |
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