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| |  BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users
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|  kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users Yes, and we would pay for it, if it was available. | |
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1 edit | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by kreggo:Yes, and we would pay for it, if it was available. It is available in Texas. just not from Verizon and not cheap.
»www.infobahn.com/research-information.htm
2 T-3's come close - one OC3 should cover you.
Edit - For the OC3 it looks like you will need to have a business name for, but you can grab 3 T-3's at home.  | |
| | | | | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users Yes, but you are being nastily practical.  They say they will pay. I'd like to see which ones will cough up $20,000/mo for an OC3. 
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Internet News
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| | | | kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users Now you're just being silly.
We are discussing consumer broadband offerings such as Verizon FIOS. Try to keep on track here.
Verizon charges around $50 for around 30Mb. I submit that they could offer a faster package at a higher price point and people like me would happily buy it.
I'm just saying that it doesn't make any sense for a provider to flat out refuse to sell an item when customers are asking for it and willing to pay for it. | |
| | | | | | | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by kreggo:Now you're just being silly. We are discussing consumer broadband offerings such as Verizon FIOS. Try to keep on track here. Verizon charges around $50 for around 30Mb. I submit that they could offer a faster package at a higher price point and people like me would happily buy it. I'm just saying that it doesn't make any sense for a provider to flat out refuse to sell an item when customers are asking for it and willing to pay for it. Not silly at all. You are making several assumptions (knowingly or otherwise). You are assuming that the price per MB is linear and therefore you create a "reasonable" price in your head based on the cost of existing packages. You did it without even knowing it by accusing fAcEtIOUs  of "being silly" when he proposed some prices that didn't meet your expectations.
The fact is that it costs more, much more, for them to offer such huge speeds. There are considerations that have nothing to do with the last mile delivery. They can offer 10 customers 10Mbps service or they can offer 1 customer 100Mbps. Are you willing to pay the difference?
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Fred Thompson For President 2008 »www.fred08.com | |
| | | | | | kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by BillRoland: Are you willing to pay the difference? I would love to be able to answer that question, but I can't since the internet providers have determined that users should not even have the option for higher speeds.
That's the whole point to my argument; until someone offers 100Mbps and sets a price, your argument is nonsense. | |
| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by kreggo:until someone offers 100Mbps and sets a price, your argument is nonsense. You won't see those offerings for a while because the providers realize that consumers aren't willing to pay the price. The providers can't justify the time and money necessary to make those offerings to the public. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
 ·Mediacom
| You forget that the technology not only exists in countries like Japan and South Korea, but it's exceptionally cheap there. IE, 100Mbps fiber to the home for $30-ish per month.
It only costs them so much more because they say it costs them so much more. They're just A) lazy and B) greedy. | |
| | | | | | | RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by TheRogueX:You forget that the technology not only exists in countries like Japan and South Korea, but it's exceptionally cheap there. IE, 100Mbps fiber to the home for $30-ish per month. It only costs them so much more because they say it costs them so much more. They're just A) lazy and B) greedy. Comments like these always leave me shaking my head at the obvious lack of anything resembling a basic understanding of economics. | |
| | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Mediacom
1 edit | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users No, I have an understanding of economics. And the issues with the telecoms in this country have nothing to do with economics. AT&T could easily afford to expand their network, without substantially increasing costs. Yes, they would take a hit to their immediate profits and shareholder earnings, but that's okay. It takes money to make money. They're not willing to invest, even though the technology would ultimately make them money. They (the shareholders, probably the single most greedy group of people in the world IMHO) want their money NOW, not 5-10 years down the line. | |
| | | | | | | | | RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
2 edits | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by TheRogueX:No, I have an understanding of economics. And the issues with the telecoms in this country have nothing to do with economics. AT&T could easily afford to expand their network, without substantially increasing costs. Yes, they would take a hit to their immediate profits and shareholder earnings, but that's okay. It takes money to make money. They're not willing to invest, even though the technology would ultimately make them money. They (the shareholders, probably the single most greedy group of people in the world IMHO) want their money NOW, not 5-10 years down the line. I stand corrected, that is a simply brilliant rant analysis  | |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | You don't invest, do you?
It's not about an immediate return.. its about wondering, with trends and actions of the individuals, if their money is going to be well spent and well taken care of to BE there in 5 to 10 years.
In case you haven't heard of Enron, may I tell you that my father, a 61 year old laborer who worked hard his whole life to provide for his family, put his kids through college, and did all of what you could ask of ANY father to do for his family, lost $50,000 of his money in that mess. His money was in a low risk account too.
Now, those "greedy" investors are wondering the same thing. It's the "greedy" investors that keep these companies running. The stockholders are owners of the company. They have a RIGHT to know that their money will be handled properly by the board. They have an EXPECTATION to know their money will not be mis-used and that good practice will be observed. Not rushing out a product to a consumer at a low price so they make little investment back. Remember, this is technology.. it changes so quickly! And, you, the very poster on this board wanting the next best thing, is going to be looking at AT&T and asking them, 5 years down the road, why they haven't made any investment to upgrade those hundreds of thousands of miles of plant to get it to you.
.. and how can they?? if they are not taking care of the "greedy" investor, rather, delivering to you a low price, cutting edge technology.
It has EVERYTHING to do with economics.. EVERYTHING.
The consumer needs to stop acting like spoiled children at Christmas time. Telecom is not going to change over night. The last 10 years had brought MANY changes and advances.. I'm surprised they've been able to keep up with it like they have.
If people would be happy with significant upgrades every 5 years, instead of EVERY year, then realistically, you'd see them. Companies simply can't afford to rebuild their networks every 2 years at $14.95 per subscriber or even $30 per subscriber.. at what point does that 'greedy' investor get to see a return on their investment? At this rate, never.
Investors don't have to put money in and expect nothing.. they invest to get a return. They get no return, they pull their money. I GUARANTEE you that if you put any money into them, you'd want the 'same thing'... EVERYONE does. And to be honest, with out the investor, this country goes NO WHERE. I thank GOD for the greedy investor.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
| | | | | | | | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
1 edit | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users These companies sell a 'product', and have to find a way of maxing maximum profits, which will drive up stock price and lure investors. More investment and money will make the company a good investment, and the company will find ways (or attempt) to put the competition out of business so that they can make more money, etc.
There are 2 kinds of investment strategies:
Short term
Long term
Short term: Early IPO on Redhat for example - make a truckload of cash in a few days. Timing is everything on when you want to get out. Eg. Real Estate is currently down, 3 years ago it was kicking butt. This kind you need to watch... great for daytraders.
»finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=RHT&t=my
Long Term: Take a look at Warren Buffets stock. This is a retirement strategy. »finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=BRK-A&t=my
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | |  telcolackey5The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA | said by kreggo:Yes, and we would pay for it, if it was available. 100Mb is available. You can order it from many carriers as a business line. I doubt however you would pay the real cost that they would charge. | |
| | | kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users And why would a consumer buy a business line?
Business lines cost more because they include service level agreements, guaranteed data rates, etc.
Consumers don't need these things.
I am a consumer. Say that slowly so you can remember it.
C o n s u m e r .
I just want more bandwidth on a consumer circuit and I'm willing to pay more for my 100Mbps than you pay for your pokey 6Mbps. | |
| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users Businesses are C O N S U M E R S too... they are Business consumers. You are a consumer as well.. you are a residential user.
Commercial products are not expensive SIMPLY because of the SLA. That's bandwagon talking points. There is much more to it that just that.
Businesses are charged FAR more also because of their expected use. The business rate IS the rate of providing a line. Residential users are actually discounted lines because it's known that a residential user will not consume as much as a business.
You ARE right that there is the guaranteed data rates, but again, it's far more than that. I forget the user here, on bbr, that said why a T-1 is more expensive, but his definition was very well said and I won't try to repeat it.
However. sot say that you are willing to pay more for your 100mb line and not take into account things like "guaranteed data rates"... get that 100 MB line, pay the more money for it and when you only get 90MB, will you say that you won't be back here complaining that you don't get your 100mb on your residential line and use the words "... and look what I'm paying for this!" or ".. and I'm paying a premium for the speed and not getting it"...
It's easy to state all of this.. and it's also been done before in the past. Those that went from 4mb lines to 8mb lines , etc.. it's all been said before.
You've also not addressed anyone else who have brought up valuable points about speeds. One in particular is that it's economic to sell 10 10MB lines that is is to sell 1 100MB line.. are you willing to pay the difference? There is a capacity issue be it telco or cable and they have to ensure they can deliver what they sell - otherwise, they're deceiving the consumer. In order to give YOU, a single user in a geographical area, that 100 line, they'd have to rebuild that entire area just for you. Again, you willing to pay those costs too?
I know it's no... that's why speed increases happen in a pace... fast or slow.. they just happen.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users Its because THEY CAN charge businesses more. Business have the money to pay the pied piper, domestic consumers don't. A part of it is SLA, another part is BECAUSE THEY CAN. Most Telcos revenues come off of B2B. | |
| | | | | |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| Re: BBR visitors are ouliers and not the mainstream users said by patcat88:Its because THEY CAN charge businesses more. Business have the money to pay the pied piper, domestic consumers don't. A part of it is SLA, another part is BECAUSE THEY CAN. Most Telcos revenues come off of B2B. This isn't true at all; business customers will shop for service far more than residential customers will. If it were just a matter of it being "because they can" one of the competitors would break rank and massively undercut the pricing to win a bid. You don't really see that, however, as business customers pay the true cost of bandwidth because they drive the growth of networks. Even though business peak time is only 9am-5pm M-F, you buy circuit capacity for 24x7 use. What makes residential service pricing possible is that peak residential usage doesn't overlap with peak business usage. Once the business usage tapers off you have excess capacity that is already paid for so you can resell it to residential subscribers for close to the cost for just the "last mile" delivery.
Look at any ISP that publishes public stats and you'll see graphs like this:
»home.visi.com/status/?i=bigpipes
You have a large peak in the middle of the business day, the bandwidth for which is funded by your business customers, and then a smaller trailing peak from residential users in the evening.
Residential pricing as it stands today is incapable of supporting the growth required to deliver 100mbps access by itself. It won't be until businesses start massively scaling their bandwidth consumption that these types of connections will trickle down to residential availability.
-Eric | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by kreggo:Yes, and we would pay for it, if it was available. Careful how you say the "we" word. Again, it's been made VERY clear here that people will NOT "pay" for it. At every step, people on this site complain that $42 a month for even a 12 or 16mb line is "too much"... so when/if a 100MB line comes down the pipe, who is the "we" that would "gladly" pay for it?
Those that are paying even $19.99 for DSL say it's too much. Those are the same people that are told time and time again what it was like to be on an up to 1.5 line, paying $95 a month, a $300 installation fee, a $100 modem fee, with a 2 year contract just a few short years ago.
I think the correct statement is "Yes, and *I* would for for it, if it was available"... the REAL question is, for how long would you pay for it?
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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 gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
1 edit | said by fAcEtIOUs:The same people today who say they NEED 100 mbps will be the same ones who need 1 gbps the second they would get 100 mbps. And they represent .001% of all users. Lets just skip 100mbps and go right into 100gbps.
People who have upgraded from dialup to dsl or cable have noticed a large difference in speed and people who Ive spoken to are very pleased with it.
Those same people didnt realize what the difference would be, and are now happily surfing, posting, chatting, gaming, etc.
And now thier lives are much richer, they meet and chat, interact with people around the world.
When they were on dialup it would take so long to do these things that they would become discouraged and find something else to do.
Now that we/they are learning what can be done with all that bandwidth, it is being put to good (or bad) use.
Life is too short to have a slow net connection.
Faster IS better!
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‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
| DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX | said by fAcEtIOUs:The same people today who say they NEED 100 mbps will be the same ones who need 1 gbps the second they would get 100 mbps. And they represent .001% of all users. No - the ones who say they need 100Mbps are the ones that think they will see an immediate 10 or 20x speed improvement in everything they do on-line. They don't seem to understand that the Internet is a shared resource and it's not just their local connection that limits performance. | |
| | | No because at that point internet speed has caught up with the average user's computer hardware limits. | |
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