Real cost of T1? in Business Connectivity http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19285822 en Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:05:03 EDT Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:05:03 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19367010 JoelC707 : I was hoping you would come along and confirm or deny what the guy told me. I thought it sounded funny at first but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed plausible. In any case I'm glad to know the truth now, thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19367010 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:05:47 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19359690 Splitpair :
said by bobs_bigboy :

whats the difference between a pop and co?
A central office is a ILEC or CLEC facility or building containing their equipment. A POP or point of presence is a location almost always in a CO where two different carrier networks can be crossconnected to one another.

For example let’s say MCI/Verizon wishes to connect to one of their customers through the ILEC last mile. MCI will establish a POP in one of the ILEC CO's then to make the connection will drop an order on the ILEC to have them crossconnect a channel on the Carrier Facility Assignment (CFA) of the POP to a channel defined by the ILEC for delivery to the end user.

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19359690 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:51:08 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19359597 Splitpair :
said by JoelC707 See Profile :

When I had my first T1 circuit installed the Bellsouth guy that came out to install it told me if I ever change providers, all I had to do was give them the circuit ID and they would reuse it.
He was mistaken as the circuit is leased to the carrier not you the end user. One you cancel service with a carrier they drop a disconnect order on the ILEC once that D order is worked the facilities go back into the assignment pool and the circuit ID is canceled out in WFA. As such the ID is only useful if the carrier passed the D order in error and then we might be able to pull the old assignments out of the WORD and reestablish service a little faster then processing a new order.

Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19359597 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:36:52 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315412 AWD :
said by bobs_bigboy :

whats the difference between a pop and co?
It's my understanding that IXCs (Paetec, Global Crossing, Sprint, etc.) use POPs to interconnect via fiber. And LECs (AT&T, Verizon, Qwest, etc.) use COs to distribute to the end user via copper.

Anyone?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315412 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 03:51:20 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19311336 JoelC707 : I can see where they would disconnect the pairs to free them up, especially in a high utilization area. I'm spoiled in a way, the office building I'm in has an RT right at the driveway so we have roughly 1000' of copper to worry about before it turns into fiber for the ride back to the CO.

I wonder why that Bellsouth tech told me what he did then, since once it is disconnected that circuit ID wouldn't be valid anymore. Sure he could have been lying or simply ignorant of what really took place but I would think the installer would know better. Maybe it is because I'm in an office building with an RT out front that we don't have to worry about capacity so they leave the circuit connected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19311336 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:36:11 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310899 LBDSL : If you disconnect a service (DSL, T1, DS3, etc) the loop will be disconnected, and no longer exist. We have trouble getting people to understand this. I have potential users call all the time, stating, "oh we had a T1 2 years ago, at this location, so you don't need to install anything", sorry to say, yes we do. Just like you can't take out that classic sports car for a sunday drive this week, after you sold it 5 years ago, you don't have it anymore.

A loop is made of using a number of splice points from the CO, to you, using a F1,, and F2 cables, the F1, coming out of the CO, and the F2, 1-2 miles away from the CO (typically). So once a circuit is canceled, the pairs (speaking in copper terms), are no longer in use, and cleared in the database, at which point someone else in the area would be assigned those pairs if/when they order some form of service (voice, date, etc)
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Lightning Bolt Technologies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310899 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:32:53 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310848 JoelC707 : I'm a little confused, but maybe that's because I'm making an assumption on something I don't fully understand. For example, my current T1 is through FDN with Bellsouth as the loop provider. I have a new bonded T1 installed (also through FDN) that they brought in over two new pairs. When I disconnect the old one they won't disconnect the pairs at the CO will they? Wouldn't they just disconnect the cross connect to the ILEC?

Assuming they leave the circuit complete to the CO why couldn't the new carrier take over the circuit? I can understand if they disconnected the pairs then it wouldn't work that way. But that brings up another question, wouldn't the circuit ID change once it is reconnected? Then you are basically using a "new" circuit and have no benefit of using an existing circuit. In any case, which would be cheaper, the carrier paying for the loop or the end user? The carrier would get a better rate I would think but I'm not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310848 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:24:32 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310068 RockyBB :
said by JoelC707 See Profile :

said by RockyBB See Profile :

If you were to change any of the providers (to Covad direct, or AT&T or anyone else) you would have to install a new T1 circuit.
Why would you need a new circuit installed? The last mile copper doesn't change any, just the cross connect at the CO. When I had my first T1 circuit installed the Bellsouth guy that came out to install it told me if I ever change providers, all I had to do was give them the circuit ID and they would reuse it.
If the customer pays for the access loop, then you are correct...that is called "customer provided access." If the carrier is paying for the loop, then the Bell company will not have the authority to cross-connect it to a different provider.
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310068 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:22:28 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310013 JoelC707 :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

If you were to change any of the providers (to Covad direct, or AT&T or anyone else) you would have to install a new T1 circuit.
Why would you need a new circuit installed? The last mile copper doesn't change any, just the cross connect at the CO. When I had my first T1 circuit installed the Bellsouth guy that came out to install it told me if I ever change providers, all I had to do was give them the circuit ID and they would reuse it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19310013 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:15:15 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19301492 LBDSL : In general terms, a PoP is typically where the ISP connects to the Internet backbone (public Internet), where as the CO, is where the phone lines come in and branch off to each home, or business.

A PoP can be in a CO, or in a Carrier hotel/data center.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19301492 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:31:28 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19301421 anon : whats the difference between a pop and co?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19301421 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:14:33 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286750 LBDSL : at&t owns the last mile copper, which runs from your location to the CO. It is then plugged into Covad's Equipment, flows over the Covad network, to the nearest PoP, at which point it you hit the public Internet.
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Lightning Bolt Technologies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286750 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:58:58 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286654 Carlisle : Ok is safe to assume that covad gets the line from ATT. when there is a problem ATT is the one that comes out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286654 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:43:31 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286475 LBDSL :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

If you were to change any of the providers (to Covad direct, or AT&T or anyone else) you would have to install a new T1 circuit.
In general this is correct, however with Covad, you can do an ISP switch, which doesn't require a new install, but that is typically not common with T1's, and more so with DSL circuits, but can be done with Covad T1's
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Lightning Bolt Technologies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286475 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:21:08 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286413 RockyBB : your assumptions are incorrect. circuit pricing is not front loaded. perhaps some waived install fees are earned out during the contract period which do not have to be recovered in a renewal term, so your could approach a renegotiation on those grounds with the current provider.

sounds like you have a T1 circuit to Covad as resold by Megapath. If you were to change any of the providers (to Covad direct, or AT&T or anyone else) you would have to install a new T1 circuit.
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286413 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:11:05 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286347 Carlisle : Circuit is still on but the contract is coming to an end. I read somewhere the cost are low after you have paid approximately 6 months on the circuit. that's when the reseller starts to make his cash I would think. So I'm wondering what it would cost me to deal with ATT direct (if possible) instead of covad or megapath. to keep the circuit up at the end of the contract.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286347 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:57:31 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286297 RockyBB : cost to a phone company is a different topic than price to a customer. What's on your mind?

if you're referring to a circuit that is now disconnected, but used to work as a T1, that circuit is now inactive and nothing about it exists except in memory...so you will have to order a new one, and absorb any install fees and timeframes as if that circuit was never there.
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286297 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:50:02 EDT Re: Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286123 LBDSL : Are you talking about the maintenance of the physical loop, and all hardware attached?
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Lightning Bolt Technologies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19286123 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:16:23 EDT Real cost of T1? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19285822 Carlisle : Does anyone know the actual cost of a T1 line, if the circuit is already in. What does it cost the Phone company. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19285822 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:45:46 EDT