Re: probably in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19288919 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:07:38 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:07:38 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19353235 djrobx : Then how do you explain "digital cable" equipment like TiVo Series 3 working and Motorola 3416's working?

FIOS TV saves 2 QAM channels vs. cable due to not having internet data on the same line. That's it. There clearly IS a bandwidth crunch, that's what's creating the HDTV channels limitation that created this news article to begin with. 135 QAM channels @ 6mhz = 800mhz. Cable TV is pretty much the same (some markets have been upgraded for more capacity than others)

The technology is what it is. I don't doubt Fios has a superior picture to your cable. Maybe the cable company just doesn't give a crap about quality?
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Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19353235 Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:55:46 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19343929 UncleDirtNap : "Fios TV is the same as cable TV, it's just delivered on an all-fiber network up to the home instead of up to a neighborhood node (ONT is acting like a cable node)."

Don't think I can buy that. I've seen FIOS TV regular and HD and Comcast's on similar HD plasma TVs and the FIOS channels are noticeably cleaner, sharper and brighter.

Don't know the details about such things but the guy with Comcast says he was told the difference is the result of Comcast having to compress their signals while Verizon FIOS doesn't.

He's already planning to switch the moment FIOS TV is available to him.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19343929 Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:24:42 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19289505 BosstonesOwn : Not really , they invested heavily on the wrong segment at the moment. They will fix the switch capacity issues soon ;)

Edited: Wrong link.

They are starting to add more channels in the co on the older equipment. I have heard that the older ONT's were why they didn't use more channels. Before they were given to them they had that limitation , so they bought with in specs of the ONT and then the ONT company revised the ONT , while Verizon was left holding the bag with the older equipment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19289505 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:05:31 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19289463 afiggatt :
said by amungus See Profile :

So if I read all that correctly, they still pipe 'analog' signals out to coax in houses? I would bet that the reasoning was that there weren't as many HDTV's in use at the time. It's also convenient to just plug in a regular TV to ordinary coax and not even worry about an extra box to plug in, wire up, etc... Easy for the regular TV person with little technical experience who might get confused while hooking everything up.
Fios TV is effectively all digital. All the channels you get with their SD or HD STB or DVR are digital on QAM256 channels. What they did was also provide for up to 40 analog channels to be piped to the home through the ONT (Optical Network Terminal) in the channel 2 to 49 block. You can hook up a TV with an analog NTSC cable ready tuner and get those channels. But these are local channels ONLY - local broadcast and PEG along with several throw-ins such as WGN and a weather channel. ALL the national SD and HD channels are digital only and encrypted so you need a STB or DVR or a TV/STB with a cable card to get those channels.

However the SD and HD locals are also provided in the clear (ie unencrypted), so you can get those with a digital TV or STB with a QAM tuner without an extra fee for a STB.

As Fios TV is a relatively new service, it is likely the vast majority of Fios subscribers are using the Fios STB/DVRs for their main TVs, so the analog channels are irrelevant to those setups. There are probably some with a kitchen or bedroom TV getting the analog channels. Verizon will be providing the minimal Motorola DCT 700 STB as a small cheap STB as an option for the analog sets. Once the DCT 700s have been provided and Verizon has regulatory approval to kill analog, it appears they will undertake an aggressive schedule to do so. This has been all discussed in the Fios TV forum, but maybe it is useful to rehash it here for those who have not kept up on the discussions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19289463 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:58:25 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288919 amungus : Wow! Being nowhere near Verizon's FiOS, that's all very interesting news to me :D

Cool that they were smart enough to use lots of existing hardware - had no idea they actually used "normal" moto boxes either!

So if I read all that correctly, they still pipe 'analog' signals out to coax in houses? I would bet that the reasoning was that there weren't as many HDTV's in use at the time. It's also convenient to just plug in a regular TV to ordinary coax and not even worry about an extra box to plug in, wire up, etc... Easy for the regular TV person with little technical experience who might get confused while hooking everything up...

If they went all digital, and kept HD at a reasonably good quality (sounds like they already do!), then there's no question they could be one of the best TV providers in existence. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288919 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:38:01 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288799 afiggatt : The problem is not the 32 QAM channels they are missing out of the 135, but that the entire national SD and HD channel set is currently carried on 44 QAM channels in total. Out of 103 channel set, 40 are currently set aside for analog for the local stations and PEGs. That leaves up to 63 QAM channels. The newer COs and VHOs have reportedly been built out to 63 QAMs, but the earlier C0s and VHOs were equipped with 54 QAMs. I'm in an area with 54 QAM channels (Sterling, VA) with 44 QAM channels appear to be reserved for national channels (with 43 in use, but not all are anywhere near maxed out) and SD RSNs and 10 QAMs for the local SD, PEG, and HD channels.

BTW, Verizon does not have more than 2 HD channels on a QAM256 channel. They also have on average only 7 to 9 SD channels per QAM256 channel, so they are not packing anywhere near as densely as many cable operators. Hence the better picture quality as each HD channel has 19.2 mb/s allocated to it, regardless.

The more reliable reports are that Verizon has been busy adding QAM channel capacity to the "older" COs to bring them up to 63 QAM channels or at least add a few more QAMs that can be used for national channels. That will provide the bandwidth for a modest number of new HD channels. Mercer County, NJ has 14 HD locals from Philly and NYC and 3 HD RSNs so they must use more than 10 QAMs for the locals.

Verizon has gotten approval from the FCC to shut down the 40 analog channels and go entirely digital. Recent reports are that may be done as soon as March, 2008. The hardware for those 40 analog channels will be replaced with hardware for up to 40 digital QAM channels. That will give them the bandwidth to add up to 80 HD channels even while waiting to upgrade the system to be able to use all 135 QAM channels. In hindsight, I'm sure Verizon management wish they have never bothered with providing analog channels, but 3+ years ago when they were presumably making the final decisions on the system, it must have been considered the safer course to get approval from the local government franchise boards.

yes, some of us Fios subscribers have been trying to figure out how they use their QAM line-up. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288799 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:19:03 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288761 TurtleFan : So am I understanding this story right? That we are now going too get at least 100+ QAM channels that you can tune on a capable TV, or PC based TV tuner? If so, that's ten times better than the locals 2-13 that we get now. The remaining 20 or so aren't worth watching...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288761 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:13:46 EDT Re: probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288559 djrobx : Fios TV is the same as cable TV, it's just delivered on an all-fiber network up to the home instead of up to a neighborhood node (ONT is acting like a cable node). That's why they're using the same Motorola DVRs cable companies use, and even compatible with CableCARD technology and Series 3 TiVos.

Adhering to that standard has saved them a ton of work in using pre-existing hardware (as opposed to U-verse who has had to pioneer a new delivery system), but it also means they share the exact same bandwidth limitations as cable operators in terms of TV.

The article is referring to an additional limitation on Verizon's backend before it even gets delivered to the home. 32 QAM channels lost is huge. Lots of cable operators squish 3 HD channels into a 38mbps QAM256 channels, so that could be 96 HD channels!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288559 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:43:43 EDT probably http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288419 amungus : They likely do need more equipment. I'd guess that massive amounts of video is needing massive amounts of storage... Since they seem to have enough bandwidth, but not enough switching (hubs? do they really mean switches...???), there's probably a need for more switching equipment too...

Awesome that they're really serious about video and using fiber. Too bad other telco's can't do what they are doing. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19288419 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:21:35 EDT