N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Here come the ham bashers.... I can hear it now, all the Amateur radio bashers calling ham radio a "backwards" technology that no one uses anymore. That BPL is the future, and we should all just deal with it.
When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe.
Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions.
BPL is a still impractical application for broadband...
The FCC should let this technology die. It'll never see widespread acceptance..
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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lolinternet
@bell.ca
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... It's especially ironic because BPL is the true "backwards" technology. Lets pump our money into making an exact copy of our existing internet access only using Power Lines.
You CAN service rural areas with BPL, BUT you can do it JUST as easily using phone lines. You still need to run fiber out to the middle of nowhere to service 3 people, no matter what technology you use. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... Ya know, you're just up the road from me there in West Chester.
We should grab a beer sometime, or at least set up a sked on a local repeater.
Once I pay my truck off, I plan on saving up and getting my HF gear a little extra "horsepower". I'm not looking to go 1500 PEP, but a nice mid range amp would be nice.
I also have a 1 acre lot with NO deed restrictions. Yep, it's soon to be tower time.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by N3OGH  :I also have a 1 acre lot with NO deed restrictions. Yep, it's soon to be tower time. Towers are nice. Even better with no deed restrictions.  | |
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| | ronny_b
join:2004-10-10
Saint Louis, MO
| said by KA3SGM :Ham Bashers like ME !! I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use. Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna. A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. All of which are illegal. Ron WB0ALI Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup.  | |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
 ·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by ronny_b :said by KA3SGM :Ham Bashers like ME !! I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use. Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna. A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. All of which are illegal. Ron WB0ALI Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup. But BPL interference to licensed Ham operations are perfectly legal?? 
I would love to see each BPL engineer even come close to passing the test for a valid Amateur radio license, and lets add the Morse requirements back in, just for fun, at a mere 13 WPM, or better 20 WPM.
Let em' flail in their own $#!t for a while
BPL would be Dead on Arrival because of their engineers being completely incompetent of passing a basic FCC exam, that the subjects of their interference have been already subject to.
Ron, you have an Advanced class Ham ticket as I do, why would anyone bother to seek the legal license anymore if unlicensed operators were to take over complete control of our ham bands.
I did however get to put a 640AM Carrier Current station back on the air at West Chester University, back in 1989.
Quite amazing what distance that 1 watt modulated onto the dormitory power lines can cover.
73, George-KA3SGM
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" | |
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| | expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY | Now there's some talk that ALWAYS captivates the ladies... | |
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Hellrazor
join:2002-02-02
Abyss | When the power lines go down, so will BPL and the HAMS will be ok
Just kidding.. the FCC is a gov agency, they are always right. | |
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michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
 ·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
| said by N3OGH :When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe. Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions... »gcaresinc.blogspot.com/2007/09/m···rms.html | |
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wilburyan
join:2002-08-01
| I had the joy of sampling BPL at a hotel a couple of weeks ago... I really have no idea how bad it effects ham radio... but I know the TV in my hotel room was going through all sorts of crazy colors when I started downloading movies with it  | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by ieolus :I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications? Like clockwork, this argument comes up every single time.
If BPL does go down in one area, the interference will be gone from just that area. You want to communicate with someone in an unaffected area. If that unaffected area has BPL, and the interference, then how can you hear from someone in the affected area?
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question.
Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide.
Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by ieolus :I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question. Not logical at all.
said by ieolus :Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide. The BPL mantra was they would provide service to rural areas. They don't. They would be viable third pipe. They aren't. They would allow power companies to make money off this internet craze. They aren't.
said by ieolus :Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country. It is not. It never will be without major infrastructure changes and a lot of money. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind.
Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet).
They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity.
About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that.
As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by ieolus :I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind. Translation: I have no argument.
said by ieolus :Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet). And there never will be because of the costs to deploy the technology. It doesn't have the distance of cable or fiber and has more issues than DSL.
said by ieolus :They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity. Do some research on how BPL is deployed before you bring up the "electricity in every home argument." It is NOT that simple.
said by ieolus :About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that. Cable companies make a lot of profit selling internet service. So do the telephone companies. Power companies are mostly regulated so their profit is fixed for electrical service. Their internet service would not be regulated.
said by ieolus :As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see. A North Carolina trial had the power company working with radio operators until it cost to much to mitigate the interference. The power company then said their was no interference and shut the HAM operators out. The trial was shut down after the power company couldn't make the system work.
There are certain BPL systems that do not create interference (like the Motorola system which was o.k.ed by the ARRL) but other systems currently out there have issues and those companies do not want to correct them because it would cost money and eat into their profits. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by moonpuppy :said by ieolus :I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind. Translation: I have no argument. You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by ieolus :You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go. Pot, this is kettle, you're black.
This topic has been discussed at length multiple times and your arguments are NOTHING new. Just more attacks by someone who does not bother to do any research.
Here is a thread you need to read:
»BPL Standard Advances | |
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Hehe
@ssa.gov
| said by ieolus :I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications? With interference, the HAM operators may shutdown, sell equipment, and vanish. Why would anyone learn to use HAM if you can't really use it because of interference.
I am not a HAM operator. But I support them and want them to continue to exist. | |
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snorpus2
| The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.
So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.
And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... said by snorpus2 :
The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.
So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.
And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning.
I didn't know that, interesting.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Dunnellon, FL
| Re: Here come the ham bashers.... Yes, with as little as 35mW of broadcast power and under the right atmospheric conditions - BPL will be the pop-hum and buzz heard around the world. The very basic nature of the frequencies current trial version of BPL use makes their signal literally bounce and skip through the atmosphere to be heard hundreds if not thousands of miles away. These devices being usually class C or maybe even B FCC devices *must* make right of way and may not interfere with licensed used of the frequency band. However, the FCC seems to be looking the other way while holding its hand out to have a thorough palm greasing. Money talks, little people walk...
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The RIAA killed my legal webcast. Sadly it will never be mourned... | |
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| wcmoore
join:2005-08-08
Sterling, VA
| An operator at one end of the conversation will likely be on the working power grid. If he has BPL signals on his electric lines and the signals are interfering he will not be able to hear the distant radio operator. Also another problem is radio signals in the shortwave bands can skip on the ionosphere for thousands of miles causing interference in multiple locations.
As a side note a recent NATO study was released which noted the potential for interference from BPL systems and the threat BPL would pose to military communications. | |
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