wcmoore
join:2005-08-08
Sterling, VA
| reply to ieolus
Re: Here come the ham bashers....
An operator at one end of the conversation will likely be on the working power grid. If he has BPL signals on his electric lines and the signals are interfering he will not be able to hear the distant radio operator. Also another problem is radio signals in the shortwave bands can skip on the ionosphere for thousands of miles causing interference in multiple locations.
As a side note a recent NATO study was released which noted the potential for interference from BPL systems and the threat BPL would pose to military communications. |
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wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Dunnellon, FL
| reply to ieolus
Yes, with as little as 35mW of broadcast power and under the right atmospheric conditions - BPL will be the pop-hum and buzz heard around the world. The very basic nature of the frequencies current trial version of BPL use makes their signal literally bounce and skip through the atmosphere to be heard hundreds if not thousands of miles away. These devices being usually class C or maybe even B FCC devices *must* make right of way and may not interfere with licensed used of the frequency band. However, the FCC seems to be looking the other way while holding its hand out to have a thorough palm greasing. Money talks, little people walk...
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The RIAA killed my legal webcast. Sadly it will never be mourned... |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus  :You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go. Pot, this is kettle, you're black.
This topic has been discussed at length multiple times and your arguments are NOTHING new. Just more attacks by someone who does not bother to do any research.
Here is a thread you need to read:
»BPL Standard Advances |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy :said by ieolus :I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind. Translation: I have no argument. You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
3 edits | reply to N3OGH
SB-200 go for about 150 to 200 dollars in good working order. They use a pair of 572B triodes for power. The SB-220 goes for about 300 to 400 dollars in working order it does the legal limit of 1500 watts using a pair CX500 triodes. They are so easy to repair if you can get a good deal on one of these amps which is not working I would would consider it. The only part if failed is a killer is the power transformer if it is gone the unit becomes a parts rig. You can find them on the swap lists and at ham feasts. These two amp in their day where the most popular HF amp on the market and thousands and thousands where sold. I am told the best place to find them is at any Texas Ham feast, Texas is a big place and they need big power on their HF setups   I have my SB-200 hooked up to one of my TS-530S it is a great combination. This outfit has the parts to update the Green Pigs.
»www.harbachelectronics.com/
I ran a G5RV dipole for years. I recently replaced mine with a conventional dipole with parts from The Wireman. »thewireman.com/index.shtml
I am fortunate to live in a area that will never see BPL. We have Hamradio operators in important positions in the local power company so any such proposal will be laughed out of the building.
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Have you eaten a pork chop for Allah |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus :I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind. Translation: I have no argument.
said by ieolus :Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet). And there never will be because of the costs to deploy the technology. It doesn't have the distance of cable or fiber and has more issues than DSL.
said by ieolus :They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity. Do some research on how BPL is deployed before you bring up the "electricity in every home argument." It is NOT that simple.
said by ieolus :About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that. Cable companies make a lot of profit selling internet service. So do the telephone companies. Power companies are mostly regulated so their profit is fixed for electrical service. Their internet service would not be regulated.
said by ieolus :As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see. A North Carolina trial had the power company working with radio operators until it cost to much to mitigate the interference. The power company then said their was no interference and shut the HAM operators out. The trial was shut down after the power company couldn't make the system work.
There are certain BPL systems that do not create interference (like the Motorola system which was o.k.ed by the ARRL) but other systems currently out there have issues and those companies do not want to correct them because it would cost money and eat into their profits. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to snorpus2
said by snorpus2 :
The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.
So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.
And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning.
I didn't know that, interesting.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to moonpuppy
I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind.
Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet).
They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity.
About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that.
As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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snorpus2
| reply to ieolus
The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.
So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.
And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus :I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question. Not logical at all.
said by ieolus :Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide. The BPL mantra was they would provide service to rural areas. They don't. They would be viable third pipe. They aren't. They would allow power companies to make money off this internet craze. They aren't.
said by ieolus :Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country. It is not. It never will be without major infrastructure changes and a lot of money. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Transmaster
That sounds like a good idea.
Actually, I could probably feed my G5RV with that until I can scrape up the cash for my tower.
Where did you pick yours up at, and what are they going for these days?
I've always had an affinity for tube driven equipment. My first HF rig was a Kenwood 830 with 2 6146 B's in the back. Nothing like the warm glow of tubes on a chilly winter night....
I can't WAIT to put the tower up. My neighborhood used to be kinda rural. It wasn't uncommon to find cars up on blocks in peoples driveway, or a bulldozer in the side yard. Now it's full of rich yuppie types who are going to FREAK when I put that big azz HF beam and VHF/UHF array up. I only need about 35 feet to clear the top of my house and surrounding structures/trees.
Did I mention I'm about 350 feet above sea level 
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY | reply to KA3SGM
Now there's some talk that ALWAYS captivates the ladies... |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| reply to N3OGH
SB-200 Heathkit, The Green Pig |
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Eat a BLT for Iran |
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Hehe
@ssa.gov
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus :I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications? With interference, the HAM operators may shutdown, sell equipment, and vanish. Why would anyone learn to use HAM if you can't really use it because of interference.
I am not a HAM operator. But I support them and want them to continue to exist. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to moonpuppy
I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question.
Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide.
Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus :I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications? Like clockwork, this argument comes up every single time.
If BPL does go down in one area, the interference will be gone from just that area. You want to communicate with someone in an unaffected area. If that unaffected area has BPL, and the interference, then how can you hear from someone in the affected area?
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | reply to N3OGH
I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :I also have a 1 acre lot with NO deed restrictions. Yep, it's soon to be tower time. Towers are nice. Even better with no deed restrictions. |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
 ·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to ronny_b
said by ronny_b :said by KA3SGM :Ham Bashers like ME !! I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use. Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna. A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. All of which are illegal. Ron WB0ALI Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup. But BPL interference to licensed Ham operations are perfectly legal?? 
I would love to see each BPL engineer even come close to passing the test for a valid Amateur radio license, and lets add the Morse requirements back in, just for fun, at a mere 13 WPM, or better 20 WPM.
Let em' flail in their own $#!t for a while
BPL would be Dead on Arrival because of their engineers being completely incompetent of passing a basic FCC exam, that the subjects of their interference have been already subject to.
Ron, you have an Advanced class Ham ticket as I do, why would anyone bother to seek the legal license anymore if unlicensed operators were to take over complete control of our ham bands.
I did however get to put a 640AM Carrier Current station back on the air at West Chester University, back in 1989.
Quite amazing what distance that 1 watt modulated onto the dormitory power lines can cover.
73, George-KA3SGM
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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