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  benc Premium join:2007-06-17 Glen Carbon, IL
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| I Think The Government Should Get Involved
I know that I'll probably get scolded for this, but it'd make sense.
I would favor having only government E-mail servers that provide E-mail addresses to every single citizen. Since E-mail resembles letters, this could be in the domain of the USPS.
However, I would favor this only if there is tight regulation. After all, it's a felony (I think) to intercept letters and discover the contents, ensuring privacy. A similar law could be applied to E-mail.
Also with government resources a very, very strong encryption method would be possible. Say, a 1,024-bit key that changes every hour.
I would also favor charging postage for E-mail. But only after a certain allowance (say, 6,000 messages free every year). That's 500 messages a month, more than enough for any normal individual. Almost no individuals will end up paying. However, it would seriously cut down on SPAM, which I think is a good thing. As for corporations, well they all have lots of money. If they can afford $.41 to send letters to every customer and employee, they can afford $.05/E-mail.
This allowance would be charged by the head or entity, not by the account. So multiple accounts won't mean skirting the limit.
I understand why some may not like the idea of government-run E-mail. But the USPS is government also, and I have absolutely no qualms, worries, or concerns about employees going through the mail. If they do so they will be in very serious trouble.
And if privacy is a concern, you're still stuck even with the current state of things. The government can already sniff network traffic, so what difference does it make if they run the nation's E-mail servers as well? | |   Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
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| said by benc :I know that I'll probably get scolded for this, but it'd make sense. I would favor having only government E-mail servers that provide E-mail addresses to every single citizen. Since E-mail resembles letters, this could be in the domain of the USPS. However, I would favor this only if there is tight regulation. After all, it's a felony (I think) to intercept letters and discover the contents, ensuring privacy. A similar law could be applied to E-mail. Also with government resources a very, very strong encryption method would be possible. Say, a 1,024-bit key that changes every hour. I would also favor charging postage for E-mail. But only after a certain allowance (say, 6,000 messages free every year). That's 500 messages a month, more than enough for any normal individual. Almost no individuals will end up paying. However, it would seriously cut down on SPAM, which I think is a good thing. As for corporations, well they all have lots of money. If they can afford $.41 to send letters to every customer and employee, they can afford $.05/E-mail. This allowance would be charged by the head or entity, not by the account. So multiple accounts won't mean skirting the limit. I understand why some may not like the idea of government-run E-mail. But the USPS is government also, and I have absolutely no qualms, worries, or concerns about employees going through the mail. If they do so they will be in very serious trouble. And if privacy is a concern, you're still stuck even with the current state of things. The government can already sniff network traffic, so what difference does it make if they run the nation's E-mail servers as well? Sorry, I got to scold you.
Are you INSANE?!
Aside from the privacy concerns, we do not need to give the government MORE REASONS to TAX US for STUPID STUFF.
It is not the government's job to give e-mail addresses to citizens.
Charging postage for E-mail?!?!?!? MORE MONEY to the government?!
Look, your idea is as insane as Hillary's 5,000 dollars per child in a "401k" plan.
The government is already too involved in our lives. | |  amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
| reply to benc No way. Makes no sense either.
I'll start w/the business side. You honestly think there should be an additional charge? So buying an Exchange server (or, even if it's a Linux box, the hardware had to cost something...), a T1 line (or business class cable/dsl), and paying TONS of money every month - and don't forget your customers who also pay for their internet access... should have to pay AGAIN ????(that's three different places now... where on earth does this magical 3rd charge come from? where, do tell, would it go TO?)
Encryption? Wrong again. People can and do have this on their own - freely. The only thing "possible" in your scenario would be that they have all the keys and backdoors at their disposal...
Now, if your scenario were more along the lines of FREE email, that's different. Sure, that'd be nice. Having a free email system from the postal service, that'd be a bit different. Think about the tech side though - it'd be a nightmare to setup and maintain - which is why they probably don't want to do it... | |  JSRoman Premium join:2005-03-10 Callahan, FL
| reply to Rob said by Rob :said by benc :I know that I'll probably get scolded for this, but it'd make sense. I would favor having only government E-mail servers that provide E-mail addresses to every single citizen. Since E-mail resembles letters, this could be in the domain of the USPS. However, I would favor this only if there is tight regulation. After all, it's a felony (I think) to intercept letters and discover the contents, ensuring privacy. A similar law could be applied to E-mail. Also with government resources a very, very strong encryption method would be possible. Say, a 1,024-bit key that changes every hour. I would also favor charging postage for E-mail. But only after a certain allowance (say, 6,000 messages free every year). That's 500 messages a month, more than enough for any normal individual. Almost no individuals will end up paying. However, it would seriously cut down on SPAM, which I think is a good thing. As for corporations, well they all have lots of money. If they can afford $.41 to send letters to every customer and employee, they can afford $.05/E-mail. This allowance would be charged by the head or entity, not by the account. So multiple accounts won't mean skirting the limit. I understand why some may not like the idea of government-run E-mail. But the USPS is government also, and I have absolutely no qualms, worries, or concerns about employees going through the mail. If they do so they will be in very serious trouble. And if privacy is a concern, you're still stuck even with the current state of things. The government can already sniff network traffic, so what difference does it make if they run the nation's E-mail servers as well? Sorry, I got to scold you. Are you INSANE?! Aside from the privacy concerns, we do not need to give the government MORE REASONS to TAX US for STUPID STUFF. It is not the government's job to give e-mail addresses to citizens. Charging postage for E-mail?!?!?!? MORE MONEY to the government?! Look, your idea is as insane as Hillary's 5,000 dollars per child in a "401k" plan. The government is already too involved in our lives. Just imagine how much spam would go to these USPS.com email addresses. -- »www.seabee.navy.mil | |   benc Premium join:2007-06-17 Glen Carbon, IL
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| reply to amungus said by amungus :No way. Makes no sense either. I'll start w/the business side. You honestly think there should be an additional charge? So buying an Exchange server (or, even if it's a Linux box, the hardware had to cost something...), a T1 line (or business class cable/dsl), and paying TONS of money every month - and don't forget your customers who also pay for their internet access... should have to pay AGAIN ????(that's three different places now... where on earth does this magical 3rd charge come from? where, do tell, would it go TO?) My idea is that there won't be any publicly accessible E-mail servers, except those of the government. The fees would finance the servers. The idea is that E-mail would join the ranks of public services, such as roads, police, fire dept., etc.
said by amungus :Encryption? Wrong again. People can and do have this on their own - freely. The only thing "possible" in your scenario would be that they have all the keys and backdoors at their disposal... Two things to say about that.
Yes, some use encryption, although I doubt most do. It'd be great if it was universal. Although I admit it would be even better if more people knew about it. Last I heard, over 75% of Wi-Fi access points are completely unsecured (not even WAP). I do wish more people knew about that. I don't have active Wi-Fi but I know if I did I'd secure it the best I can.
As for backdoors and keys, aren't we already there? If not I would be surprised. After all, I learned that the government keeps records of *all* international phone calls to or from the U.S. Yes, even the boring calls I made to my uncle in New Zealand.
said by amungus :Now, if your scenario were more along the lines of FREE email, that's different. Sure, that'd be nice. Having a free email system from the postal service, that'd be a bit different. Think about the tech side though - it'd be a nightmare to setup and maintain - which is why they probably don't want to do it... I did mention the concept of a certain number of free E-mails granted to each individual. The number of 6,000/year, means 500/mo., which then means about 16-17 E-mails a day, every day. That's a lot of E-mail for one person.
However, I realized one shortcoming to my system. How about message board E-mails from free message boards? If there's a membership fee then it won't be as big of a deal, though very very few message boards actually do charge.
I should have realized my system isn't perfect, but then again neither is our government. I was just trying to think of a way to fix the "transfer" problem, by eliminating the need to transfer, and to also come up with a way to reduce SPAM which I know no one likes.
Here, I have a different idea:
How about charging E-mail postage only for commercial entities (but not individuals)? Certainly not an end-all solution (other countries after all), but it'd be a step in the right direction in terms of SPAM. | |   Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 USA
| reply to benc said by benc :I would also favor charging postage for E-mail. But only after a certain allowance (say, 6,000 messages free every year). That's 500 messages a month, more than enough for any normal individual. Almost no individuals will end up paying. However, it would seriously cut down on SPAM, which I think is a good thing. As for corporations, well they all have lots of money. If they can afford $.41 to send letters to every customer and employee, they can afford $.05/E-mail. The trouble is, how do you define where an individual ends and a corporation begins? If someone has a hobbyist mailing list with 1,000 people on it and he sends out an update every week, he will be sending 52,000 e-mails. After his 6,000 free e-mails, he would be paying $2,300 in government e-mail tax for his hobby. That amount of a bill for what is simply a hobby mailing list would prove prohibitive.
And how about website generated e-mails. Say I run a hobby website with a forum or blog. Suppose the system has a user verification system to prevent abuse. So when a new user signs up, they get an e-mail with a link to prove that they are a real person and not a bot. Each of those e-mails will cost me money. Even worse, bots attempting to post spam to my forum/blog will be causing me to send out e-mails which will cost *me* money.
Finally, what about the case of the individual who has their security compromised. Spam bots can send out thousands of e-mails per hour. Even if the user found and fixed the infection quickly, they could wind up with a huge tax bill.
This doesn't even get into the issue of how you would track this system, manage it, or collect taxes on it. It would be a huge and completely unneeded Federal program. | |   nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to benc That's gotta be the finest piece of satire I've ever read. Sad thing is, you were probably being serious.  | |   Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 USA
| reply to benc said by benc :My idea is that there won't be any publicly accessible E-mail servers, except those of the government. The fees would finance the servers. The idea is that E-mail would join the ranks of public services, such as roads, police, fire dept., etc. So Google wouldn't be able to offer GMail anymore? Yahoo wouldn't be able to offer Yahoo Mail? I don't see how that would be legal much less possible. What if Google moved their mail servers to Mexico/Canada/wherever? Would the US Government prosecute them for running a non-governmental e-mail server that allowed US Citizens to sign up with it? What if the entire company was outside the US? Would this company be declared illegal? Perhaps blocked? Using some kind of Great Firewall?
said by benc :As for backdoors and keys, aren't we already there? If not I would be surprised. After all, I learned that the government keeps records of *all* international phone calls to or from the U.S. Yes, even the boring calls I made to my uncle in New Zealand. The details of the international phone call tracking aren't completely known, but from all reports it seems to be a listing of X called Y in country Z, not the actual audio with complete transcript.
Allow the US Government to completely control e-mail and you can imagine the data mining that would go on. One college student might joke via e-mail about a bomb and suddenly find themselves the subject of an FBI visit.
said by benc :However, I realized one shortcoming to my system. How about message board E-mails from free message boards? If there's a membership fee then it won't be as big of a deal, though very very few message boards actually do charge. There's a reason for that. If a message board charged for access, people would generally just move someplace else. Under your plan, messageboards would need to either a) charge for access, or b) be part of a big corporation with deep pockets. The only free messageboards hosted in the US would then be corporate owned ones likely doing everything they could to slant discussions pro-parent-company.
said by benc :I should have realized my system isn't perfect, but then again neither is our government. Another reason not to let the government run the entire country's e-mail system. 
said by benc :I was just trying to think of a way to fix the "transfer" problem, by eliminating the need to transfer, and to also come up with a way to reduce SPAM which I know no one likes. Your plan wouldn't reduce spam. Spammers don't send out their own e-mails. They use trojan-infected "zombie" computers to send out their spam e-mails. The spammer just tells the "head zombie" what message to send. This head zombie tells all of the other zombies what to do and they start spewing spam. The spammer uses very little of his bandwidth and a lot of everyone else's.
said by benc :How about charging E-mail postage only for commercial entities (but not individuals)? Certainly not an end-all solution (other countries after all), but it'd be a step in the right direction in terms of SPAM. See my other reply to you. How do you define "commercial entities?" What about an individual who sends out a lot of non-spam e-mail (mailing list, hobby message boards, etc)? How do you track how many e-mails are sent and collect the taxes? Would the government need some sort of e-mail tracker program installed at every company in the US? (Scary thought.) | |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
1 edit | reply to benc i dont think im quite confortable yet with government email servers. [tinfoil hat]they would have a back door no matter the encryption if they did make it a service like the USPS. the NSA and its internal supporters would insist, infact the servers would probally decrypt, scan and reencrypt all messages and it would be cloaked under the patriot act.[/tinfoil hat] -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |   benc Premium join:2007-06-17 Glen Carbon, IL
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| reply to nixen said by nixen :That's gotta be the finest piece of satire I've ever read. Sad thing is, you were probably being serious. I was being serious. However, I'm glad I posted this so others could point out shortcomings, if there were any. In this case, it turns out there are some. | |   benc Premium join:2007-06-17 Glen Carbon, IL
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| reply to Jason Levine Oh man...I didn't think of the zombie PCs. You're right, with the zombie PCs my system wouldn't help the problem.
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When I said "commercial entities," I meant business that are for-profit. So the likes of Dell, IBM, Microsoft, regional banks, and even your local mom-and-pop would count.
The hobbyist sending 1,000 weekly E-mails wouldn't count because he isn't doing it to make money.
As for E-mail counting programs, would it matter? Many big companies haven't done much to protect consumer privacy. AT&T comes to mind when I say this. Any such program, however, must only count out-going E-mails, not scan them. Making it open source would help. | |   benc Premium join:2007-06-17 Glen Carbon, IL
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| reply to Kearnstd said by Kearnstd :i dont think im quite confortable yet with government email servers. [tinfoil hat]they would have a back door no matter the encryption if they did make it a service like the USPS. the NSA and its internal supporters would insist, infact the servers would probally decrypt, scan and reencrypt all messages and it would be cloaked under the patriot act.[/tinfoil hat] Isn't that possible already?
However, I know that my argument will fall apart if there's an encryption method that the government just can't get into. Does such a method exist? I'd be quite curious to know what it is, if it exists.
I heard of something called PGP (or something like that), but didn't the government make them provide a backdoor? | |   ePostageDue
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| reply to benc said by benc :I would also favor charging postage for E-mail. so when some spammer in china spoofs my email address I get to pay for all those messages? | |   lolspammer
@bell.ca | yes isn't it wonderful? That chinese spammer is helping to indirectly fund our government!  | |
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