Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
 ·BlueYonder Interne..
 ·Be There
| Where To Draw The Line?
Just thinking, because of the way the Sandvine shapes, clear and obvious forging of RSTs to force a TCP session closed, it could be said that they temporarily block content.
Where do you draw the line? If the CMTS is rammo with P2P so say 85% of flows are being RST'd how long before 'delaying' becomes 'blocking'?
It's a tricky distinction. I'm not versed enough in network neutrality to comment with too qualified an opinion but the way the Sandvine operates is a cheap (less hardware needed in the appliance for the same number of subs) and insidious way of doing things whose result is clearly obvious from both sides of the connection.
They are probably fine with thins while they target specific protocols though, it's a far from uncommon thing to do and it is to an extent blown up because of the size of Comcast, however on the other hand the size of Comcast asks the question of why they can't afford to keep the plant upgraded enough to manage traffic without using this equipment. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| said by Ignite  :It's a tricky distinction. There is no difference. This is Comcast trying to control the debate.
Forging RST packets is an active attempt by Comcast network administration to shut down a connection - not delay it. How can that be anything but blocking? |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| said by Talis :Forging RST packets is an active attempt by Comcast network administration to shut down a connection - not delay it. How can that be anything but blocking? P2P apps make numerous connection attempts. If you're the only member that contains the data someone needs, they'll try the connection again later. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Ignite
The relevant lines in the FCC policy statement would seem to be:
said by FCC :
(2) consumers are entitled to run applications and services of
their choice, subject to the needs of law enforcement
[and]
... All of these principles are subject to reasonable
network management.
Reasonable management might include throttling, i.e. dropping a percentage of packets from certain low-urgency types of traffic, only when the network is too congested, and without discrimination by packet destinations. What Comcast is doing instead is forging packets to prevent customers from seeding torrents to peers outside of Comcast. This is not "reasonable network management"; it is blocking a specific use of a protocol regardless of network conditions. |
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madrhino
join:2004-07-03
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| reply to Talis
said by Talis :said by Ignite :It's a tricky distinction. There is no difference. This is Comcast trying to control the debate. Forging RST packets is an active attempt by Comcast network administration to shut down a connection - not delay it. How can that be anything but blocking? It's not blocking.It's not Friday.It's not even daytime. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to espaeth
I understand, but thats not the issue. The issue is what Comcast is doing to shut down that traffic. If the BitTorrent protocol didn't work the way it did, do you think Comcast would NOT be sending RST's? They would still block it because it isn't the connection ATTEMPTS that are their problem, its the connection itself once it's established. |
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