Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to nixen
Re: Bad juju
said by nixen  :That said, my particular beef comes from what I've observed having worked Verizon and for the various companies that now make up Verizon. In other words, I'm familiar with the mindset of the company - and it is a long-standing corporate mind-set. I think you'd be surprised to find out that this same mindset exists at pretty much every large company, and the only difference between them is the number of people who stand in the way of stupid ideas; it's a balance of power thing.
If you're a higher up at Verizon and are uncomfortable with this are you gonna spend your clout on this small by-passable issue or are you going to save it till they do do something like forcing people to their DNS servers.
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Mooooooo!!! |
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Jeff_Dallas
join:2007-11-05 | reply to printscreen
Yes, they are. Thats the part that bothers me. I am randomly getting their site on properly-formed addresses that obviously exits like www.google.com |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck :Quite frankly for any valid reason you can come up with pointing to this being a problem, I can come up with a valid reason why Verizon would see this as a useful to their customers; the fact that the bad domain error message most browsers throw up is somewhat confusing and likely results in a significant number of support calls incorrectly thinking it's a Verizon problem being just one of them. In all my years of working for ISPs, and that's a LOT of years, I don't think I've ever personally received a call from someone because they typo-ed. As stupid as some users are, and there are some real clue-children out there, typographical errors don't seem to result in support tickets. Who knows, maybe it's just because they're just too stupid to figure out how to get ahold of support, too. Whatever.
said by Combat Chuck :The issue is that the majority of the people here will suspend all logic to take whatever opinion it is that makes any large company look bad. True enough. I can admit to having observed that. I can also admit to having observed that there are those that will do the same but for the other half of the argument. That said, my particular beef comes from what I've observed having worked Verizon and for the various companies that now make up Verizon. In other words, I'm familiar with the mindset of the company - and it is a long-standing corporate mind-set.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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printscreen
join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR | reply to massysett
I agree. For most people a page like that is far more useful than a cryptic "Page cannot be displayed" or "DNS error". It isn't like they are redirecting legitimate addresses to their own servers. |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to nixen
said by nixen :I've worked for Verizon (and MCI and Bell Atlantic). Unfortunately, I can tell you, it's not like the PHB's didn't periodically ask whether such redirection could be done. But, hey, keep on thinking that the guys in the suits are "on your side". Did I say they were on my side, no. What I'm saying is the slippery slope argument is a stupid argument that is turned to when one wants to vilify anything. This is a non issue, should they start redirecting all DNS traffic to their servers, that is a separate issue. Quite frankly for any valid reason you can come up with pointing to this being a problem, I can come up with a valid reason why Verizon would see this as a useful to their customers; the fact that the bad domain error message most browsers throw up is somewhat confusing and likely results in a significant number of support calls incorrectly thinking it's a Verizon problem being just one of them.
The issue is that the majority of the people here will suspend all logic to take whatever opinion it is that makes any large company look bad.
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Mooooooo!!! |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck :said by nixen :If they're trying these "services" as something "optional" now, it's only a matter of time until they aren't an option. Please!!! The problem with the slippery slope argument is it can validly be taken all the way back to the other end of ridiculousness. If this is an issue because it leads to forced redirects then you know what, lets go all the way back and say it's bad for Verizon to offer internet service at all because if they're offering internet service now it's only a matter of time until they force redirect DNS requests to their servers. Or we could, you know, wait for them to actually force redirects before accusing them of doing it. I've worked for Verizon (and MCI and Bell Atlantic). Unfortunately, I can tell you, it's not like the PHB's didn't periodically ask whether such redirection could be done.
But, hey, keep on thinking that the guys in the suits are "on your side".
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to Combat Chuck
Thank you! |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to nixen
said by nixen :If they're trying these "services" as something "optional" now, it's only a matter of time until they aren't an option. Please!!! The problem with the slippery slope argument is it can validly be taken all the way back to the other end of ridiculousness. If this is an issue because it leads to forced redirects then you know what, lets go all the way back and say it's bad for Verizon to offer internet service at all because if they're offering internet service now it's only a matter of time until they force redirect DNS requests to their servers.
Or we could, you know, wait for them to actually force redirects before accusing them of doing it.
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Mooooooo!!! |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
1 edit | reply to massysett
You could at least quote the right person.  |
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massysett
join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD
| reply to SilverSurfer
said by Jodokast96 :But what about the (as someone else put it) technologically ignorant? The technologically ignorant won't care. They might even find this useful. The technologically sophisticated, who want a "clean net" or whatever, can opt out or use different DNS servers.
Bunch of hoopla over nothing. |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer : They will bring net-neutrality regs upon themselves. Then everyone will lose.... except of course the CEOs ...and Haliburton! NN will benefit anyone with an Internet connection. In fact, every org across the spectrum is on board with NN. I'm not sure where Halliburton comes into play in the NN discussion unless they have become a provider. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to SilverSurfer
Agreed, the "honor" system providers once semi-adhered to with the networks is out the window. They will bring net-neutrality regs upon themselves. Then everyone will lose.... except of course the CEOs ...and Haliburton!
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Where have the adults gone? |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :So tell me then, what the effect is? Clearly, you don't see any big deal about a DNS redirect and bury your head in the sand accordingly, but I'm wondering what other seemingly innoucuous avenue ripe for a "money grab" will the provider take next. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Don't like what they do, don't use their DNS servers. They aren't forcing you to do or use anything. Of course, that's "today". Who knows what "tomorrow" will bring? It's trivially simple to set up a rule in a router that simply redirects all 53/udp to "butter-finger" DNS servers and it won't matter what you have in your computer's local settings. If they're trying these "services" as something "optional" now, it's only a matter of time until they aren't an option.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to SilverSurfer
So tell me then, what the effect is? Are they redirecting you to to another page in place of the one you typed? No. The page you typed doesn't exist. So instead you're sent to a search page, and told the page you were looking for wasn't found. This is nothing more than a money grab.
As for the technoloically ignorant, they won't know the difference anyway. This is exactly the type of person it can give some help to. Maybe next they'll spell the site right. |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 : But it is not having any effect at all on what you or anybody else does. And you would know this definitively because?
said by Jodokast96 : If you don't like it, don't use their servers. Pretty simple. That is beautiful advice to suggest to those of us who know better and know that there are other DNS servers out there to use. But what about the (as someone else put it) technologically ignorant?
Given what we already know about providers, it is fairly accurate to state that if they're given a millimeter, they'll take ten thousand miles. This particular matter is no exception to that evidence. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :If you don't like it, don't use their servers. Pretty simple. as i just said, no it isn't. not for the tech ignorant, which is most of their customers. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to morbo
Should it be opt-in, sure, why not. But it is not having any effect at all on what you or anybody else does. Hell, 90% of the addresses I mistype anyway has already been taken by 3rd parties doing the same thing. Is it greedy? Absolutely. Unethical? Eh. And they did send notice that they were doing this. Of all of the crap for people to cry about, this isn't one of them. If you don't like it, don't use their servers. Pretty simple. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Don't like what they do, don't use their DNS servers. They aren't forcing you to do or use anything. this is my favorite line as it places the blame on technologically ignorant consumers. it makes Verizon look like it actually cares about consumers when it cares more about money. if they really cared about consumers it would be opt-in . |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | reply to Jodokast96
"Give them an inch, and they take a mile" |
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