jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK | [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Does Cox interfere in any way with Bittorrent traffic? Be it interfering with seeding, like Comcast is recently accused of, or traffic shaping, or some other degradation of service? | |
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 robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? not yet. but don't give them any ideas.
-rob | |
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 | jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? What exactly happens when one exceeds a limit that Cox lists at the URL below?
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
re: maximum monthly consumption caps | |
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Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Caps are loosely enforced,
If they are you will get a warning email to yoour primary cox.net account....
Continued abuse would prob lead to account termination..
But like I said, Caps are VERY loosely enforced | |
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| | | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? but what about traffic shaping? i don't think cox does that (yet) but we hope that cox won't follow comcast evil ways of telling us what we can and can not do (within reason) on what we are paying for.
-rob | |
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Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by robertfl  :but what about traffic shaping? i don't think cox does that (yet) but we hope that cox won't follow comcast evil ways of telling us what we can and can not do (within reason) on what we are paying for. -rob You already answered the question.... Are you unsure of your answer?
But I haven;t seen any evidence of Traffic shaping... Hasn't happened with me.... | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by robertfl :but what about traffic shaping? i don't think cox does that (yet) but we hope that cox won't follow comcast evil ways of telling us what we can and can not do (within reason) on what we are paying for. Thats when i drop cox like a rock and just use one of the 6 open wireless APs available to me.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by dvd536 :said by robertfl :but what about traffic shaping? i don't think cox does that (yet) but we hope that cox won't follow comcast evil ways of telling us what we can and can not do (within reason) on what we are paying for. Thats when i drop cox like a rock and just use one of the 6 open wireless APs available to me. Great attitude 
Nothing like causing problems for your neighbors... | |
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nastyneighbors
@cox.net
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by Fubar :Great attitude Nothing like causing problems for your neighbors... You never know... His neighbors might be the biggest jerks on the planet.  | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Fubar :said by dvd536 :said by robertfl :but what about traffic shaping? i don't think cox does that (yet) but we hope that cox won't follow comcast evil ways of telling us what we can and can not do (within reason) on what we are paying for. Thats when i drop cox like a rock and just use one of the 6 open wireless APs available to me. Great attitude Nothing like causing problems for your neighbors... If they're too ignorant/stupid to configure their routers then thats their problem. most of em are Qwest DSL and two are standard cox(preferred).
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Wow, these are some really ridiculously low caps... Only 40gigabytes downstream a month?
They'd better not enforce them I think there would be many many users who go over that, and it's only going to increase. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by KrK :Wow, these are some really ridiculously low caps... Only 40gigabytes downstream a month? They'd better not enforce them I think there would be many many users who go over that, and it's only going to increase. Got to agree with you there. even comcast gives you 90 gigs a month.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by MarkyD :all i can say with certainty is this. My torrents download much slower on my Cox 12/1 connection than they did on my AT&T 6/1 FTTP connection. I've tried changing clients, made sure my ports are forwarded properly, changed routers...It's a mystery. How much slower? | |
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| | SkateZilla
join:2006-01-24
Virginia Beach, VA | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Cox monitors bit torrent, you download stuff your not supposed to and they'll nail you. | |
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Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Cox Won't and doesn't care...
The RIAA does though | |
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| | | | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
1 edit | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? they have other 3rd parties who monitor the traffic. why you need to protect yourself.
greed is a very powerful tool and why to this day i don't buy any cd's.
-rob | |
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spanglo
Premium
join:2004-05-17
San Diego, CA
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by MarkyD :said by Fubar :said by MarkyD :all i can say with certainty is this. My torrents download much slower on my Cox 12/1 connection than they did on my AT&T 6/1 FTTP connection. I've tried changing clients, made sure my ports are forwarded properly, changed routers...It's a mystery. How much slower? I could max out my 6mbps pipe on ATT. On Cox I can never break 500KB/sec no matter how many torrents I have running, or how good the sources are. That does sound odd.
I regularly get over a 1MB/sec on my torrents with Premiere.
Anyone else in your area getting the same results? | |
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| | | | 
MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by spanglo :That does sound odd. I regularly get over a 1MB/sec on my torrents with Premiere. Anyone else in your area getting the same results? My neighbor and friend has experienced the same. Strange thing is, we can max out our connection no problem on websites like Microsoft, Apple...
--
MCSE, ACSA, and a lot more | |
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needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ | You have proof or just conjecture?
--
Great success! High five! | |
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Phaetos
join:2003-09-21
Slaughter, LA
| Hmm ..strange. I got hit with a C&D a few weeks back by Cox, for the one and only thing I ever tried to get off Torrent. Ever since then UTorrent won't connect and neither will the original BT client. won't work at all. but I can use the updated version of limewire that supports torrents now and it works fine. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by MarkyD :I am starting to think that Cox is using Sandvine in a testing phase in certain markets, OKC being one of them. Easy to verify if you use utorrent, view the clients and if you see them connect and immediately disconnect, its sandvine or similar quality of service degradation service.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Just for this, we should be able to get our full download speed on newsgroups, not 512K
-Rob | |
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| jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| said by MarkyD :I am starting to think that Cox is using Sandvine in a testing phase in certain markets, OKC being one of them. Actually, I brought up the topic because I suspect that Cox is interfering with my connection.
I recently had the rare need to provide a file to my team via Bittorrent. This time around, I noticed all sorts of problems (individual upstream connections going to 0kB/s after 10 seconds). And all sorts of randomness, rarely able to even come close (not to mention sustain) my self-imposed cap of 30kB/s.
I would have suspected a problem with up my upstream path, but my FTPs are 100% rock solid. Back to Bittorrent... I tried downloading off of a public torrent server, and was able to download just great, but my upload throughput was weak and random.
Example FTP stats...
> 9558016 bytes sent in 140.65Seconds 67.96Kbytes/sec.
Has anyone from Cox answered the original question, or has a response been avoided so far? "Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it?" | |
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| |
MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? I find it interesting that we're both in Oklahoma and noticing similar behavior. | |
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| | | bom619
join:2002-06-14
San Diego, CA | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Having unpredictable results in San Diego as well. New behavior... very strange. | |
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| | | | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Are ISPs going to bed with the RIAA/MPAA? talk about censorship and btw, their ads say "download movies/music at blazing speeds"
-Rob | |
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Pyrion
Liquid Metal Nanomorph
join:2001-12-01
Poway, CA
clubs:
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
·Cox HSI
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by robertfl :Are ISPs going to bed with the RIAA/MPAA? talk about censorship and btw, their ads say "download movies/music at blazing speeds" -Rob Note the lack of the keyword "illegally" in that statement.
--
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell | |
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| | | | | | jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by Pyrion :Are ISPs going to bed with the RIAA/MPAA? talk about censorship and btw, their ads say "download movies/music at blazing speeds"
Note the lack of the keyword "illegally" in that statement.
I think that you both have a good question for Cox, just you are asking it in different ways:
Assuming Cox is interfering with BitTorrent...
1] Are they doing this to partially curtail piracy on their network?
2] Or are they doing it to preserve more free bandwidth on their network? | |
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Pyrion
Liquid Metal Nanomorph
join:2001-12-01
Poway, CA
clubs: | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? I'm not asking a question, I'm pointing out a flaw in reasoning. | |
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| | | | jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| said by bom619 :Having unpredictable results in San Diego as well. New behavior... very strange. This guy was also complaining about BitTorrent uploading problems, in San Diego, but he got lost in a bunch of noise of people, who aren't Cox employees, telling him there isn't a problem:
»[CA] Packet Shaping, San Diego
I download IPFW and added the following firewall rule...
deny tcp from any to me 6881 tcp flags rst
...and ran another test. In a period of 5 minutes, the firewall rule detected OVER 2000 RST packets on the BitTorrent port.
I didn't run a packet sniffer on both sides of a BitTorrent connection to prove that fake RST packets are being generated, but I think I've proved to my own satisfaction that Cox is engaging in Comcast-like behavior. Even still, I want an answer from a Cox employee who can speak authoritatively on this.
The question, again: "Does Cox interfere, in any way, with BitTorrent traffic?" | |
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spanglo
Premium
join:2004-05-17
San Diego, CA
| said by MarkyD :I am starting to think that Cox is using Sandvine in a testing phase in certain markets, OKC being one of them. I personally know of four people that are noticing BitTorrent slowdowns (significant) on Cox in OKC. When I was running Cox and AT&T side by side for a few days, I started one torrent on my AT&T connection and was able to max out my connection with it. The download on Cox was stuck at 80KB/sec. I have no proof that Cox is doing anything...just observations. Sounds like a hell of a observation to me. | |
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Movieman420
join:2007-08-28
Rivesville, WV
| Sorry to say but from what I've been reading here and on the net, looks like Cox is using Sandvine as well.
»Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections
Comcast is in real hot water over this (last few pages of the thread contains links)as they're still denying it. Congress is even getting involved and the FCC has received legal complaints as well. I'm betting that Cox will tell their customers about traffic shaping and offer customer support regarding it...unlike CC.
Even the EFF is contemplating a class action law suit.
Them managing their network is fine but doing via forgery (and denying it!) is the wrong way to do it. Not to mention it also increases their profits at the same time. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
1 edit | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Does the firewall rule break the RST crap or is it too late once it hits the firewall?
I haven't used BT in a while so i don't know if its happening here.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | Movieman420
join:2007-08-28
Rivesville, WV
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Nope...can't be broken, only avoided by using a VPN or SSH connection. Goto torrentfreak.com they have a how-to just for Comcast victims that will work for you as well.
In the early pages of the Comcasat thread I linked above, there it a script you can run (written by a CC user) that tells you in real time what % of your connections are getting killed by RSTs. Best to test after you've d/led and are trying to seed..that's where you get nailed. Up to an 80% rst rate while seeding..about 20% while downloading. Normal (legit) RST rates rarely top 3-5% avg. | |
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jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| I have my first official denial from Cox:
Question:
I have a very basic question that I was needing an _authoritative_ answer on: "Does Cox interfere, in any way, with BitTorrent traffic?"
Answer:
Thank you for your e-mail. I understand that you would like to know if Cox interfere with BitTorrent traffic.
On this matter, I can tell you that Cox does not block the ability to upload or download files.
My comments:
While it appears (on the surface) that they are saying, "no", the answer is actually non-responsive. I asked if they interfered, in any way, with BitTorrent traffic. Their reply was that they do not block the ability to upload or download files.
And it appears that they're answering from a 10,000ft level. They appear to be blocking individual upload streams for periods of time. But the result at the 10,000ft level (not individual connections, but over the course of hours) isn't to block the ability to upload or download files, but to degrade the ability to upload files. | |
|
Movieman420
join:2007-08-28
Rivesville, WV
| Here's the script I mentioned.
@ECHO OFF
REM
REM Title: NetStat Check Reset V3
REM
REM Description: Extract summary data from Netstat and display percentage of current, average and a histogram of connection resets.
REM
REM CURRENT percentages are the difference between the previous (20 seconds ago) and current Netstat results.
REM AVERAGE percentages are the running total of the current percentages.
REM HISTOGRAM is a ranking of the number of current percentages that occurred. This shows the distribution of resets from 1-99 percent.
REM
REM So while the Average percentage may be 35%, the Histogram may show the majority of Current percentages are in the 20% range
REM with some spikes in the 40% or 50% range. This would indicate normal reset activity to be in the 20% range and the focus would be
REM in resolving the spikes.
REM
SETLOCAL
TITLE NetStat Check Reset V3
CLS
ECHO NetStat Check Reset Batch V3 [Ctrl-c quit]
REM Initialize variables
:init
REM Histogram values
SET HST00=0
SET HST10=0
SET HST20=0
SET HST30=0
SET HST40=0
SET HST50=0
SET HST60=0
SET HST70=0
SET HST80=0
SET HST90=0
REM Histogram print strings
SET PST00=___
SET PST10=___
SET PST20=___
SET PST30=___
SET PST40=___
SET PST50=___
SET PST60=___
SET PST70=___
SET PST80=___
SET PST90=___
REM Loop counter for header print
SET /A TESTCYCLE=-1
REM run Netstat summary page, find line and save 2nd field value
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Active Opens"`) DO SET /A PRVACTI=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Passive Opens"`) DO SET /A PRVPASS=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Failed Connection Attempts"`) DO SET /A PRVFAIL=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Reset Connections"`) DO SET /A PRVRESE=%%i
REM Begin loop section
:begin
REM Increment test cycles
SET /A TESTCYCLE=%TESTCYCLE%+1
IF %TESTCYCLE% GEQ 10 SET /A TESTCYCLE=0
REM Ping to nul used as timer
REM Each ping approximately 1 second delay
REM Value of 20 used as minimum wait time for connection activity.
REM
ping -n 20 localhost >nul
REM run Netstat summary page, find line and save 2nd field value
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Active Opens"`) DO SET /A NXTACTI=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Passive Opens"`) DO SET /A NXTPASS=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Failed Connection Attempts"`) DO SET /A NXTFAIL=%%i
FOR /F "usebackq tokens=2 delims==" %%i IN (`netstat -s ^| find "Reset Connections"`) DO SET /A NXTRESE=%%i
REM Subtract Previous from Next to get Current
SET /A CURACTI=%NXTACTI%-%PRVACTI%
SET /A CURPASS=%NXTPASS%-%PRVPASS%
SET /A CURFAIL=%NXTFAIL%-%PRVFAIL%
SET /A CURRESE=%NXTRESE%-%PRVRESE%
REM Accumulate the totals for averaging
SET /A CUMACTI=%CUMACTI%+%CURACTI%
SET /A CUMPASS=%CUMPASS%+%CURPASS%
SET /A CUMFAIL=%CUMFAIL%+%CURFAIL%
SET /A CUMRESE=%CUMRESE%+%CURRESE%
REM Add Active and Passive connections then subtract Failed connections
REM Calculate Percentage of Resets
SET /A CURESTA=(%CURACTI%+%CURPASS%)-%CURFAIL%
REM Bypass divide by zero errors
SET /A CURPRCT=0
IF %CURESTA% NEQ 0 SET /A CURPRCT=(%CURRESE%*100)/%CURESTA%
REM Accumulate current results for session average
SET /A CUMESTA=(%CUMACTI%+%CUMPASS%)-%CUMFAIL%
REM Bypass divide by zero errors
SET /A CUMPRCT=0
IF %CUMESTA% NEQ 0 SET /A CUMPRCT=(%CUMRESE%*100)/%CUMESTA%
REM Load histogram with current percentages in the range of 1-99%
IF %CURPRCT% LEQ 0 GOTO display
:break00
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 10 GOTO break10
SET /A HST00=%HST00%+1
SET PST00=%HST00%
IF %HST00% LSS 10 SET PST00=_%PST00%
IF %HST00% LSS 100 SET PST00=_%PST00%
GOTO display
:break10
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 20 GOTO break20
SET /A HST10=%HST10%+1
SET PST10=%HST10%
IF %HST10% LSS 10 SET PST10=_%PST10%
IF %HST10% LSS 100 SET PST10=_%PST10%
GOTO display
:break20
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 30 GOTO break30
SET /A HST20=%HST20%+1
SET PST20=%HST20%
IF %HST20% LSS 10 SET PST20=_%PST20%
IF %HST20% LSS 100 SET PST20=_%PST20%
GOTO display
:break30
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 40 GOTO break40
SET /A HST30=%HST30%+1
SET PST30=%HST30%
IF %HST30% LSS 10 SET PST30=_%PST30%
IF %HST30% LSS 100 SET PST30=_%PST30%
GOTO display
:break40
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 50 GOTO break50
SET /A HST40=%HST40%+1
SET PST40=%HST40%
IF %HST40% LSS 10 SET PST40=_%PST40%
IF %HST40% LSS 100 SET PST40=_%PST40%
GOTO display
:break50
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 60 GOTO break60
SET /A HST50=%HST50%+1
SET PST50=%HST50%
IF %HST50% LSS 10 SET PST50=_%PST50%
IF %HST50% LSS 100 SET PST50=_%PST50%
GOTO display
:break60
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 70 GOTO break70
SET /A HST60=%HST60%+1
SET PST60=%HST60%
IF %HST60% LSS 10 SET PST60=_%PST60%
IF %HST60% LSS 100 SET PST60=_%PST60%
GOTO display
:break70
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 80 GOTO break80
SET /A HST70=%HST70%+1
SET PST70=%HST70%
IF %HST70% LSS 10 SET PST70=_%PST70%
IF %HST70% LSS 100 SET PST70=_%PST70%
GOTO display
:break80
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 90 GOTO break90
SET /A HST80=%HST80%+1
SET PST80=%HST80%
IF %HST80% LSS 10 SET PST80=_%PST80%
IF %HST80% LSS 100 SET PST80=_%PST80%
GOTO display
:break90
IF %CURPRCT% GEQ 100 GOTO break100
SET /A HST90=%HST90%+1
SET PST90=%HST90%
IF %HST90% LSS 10 SET PST90=_%PST90%
IF %HST90% LSS 100 SET PST90=_%PST90%
GOTO display
:break100
REM Final formatting and print
:display
REM Assign values to print strings
SET PCUMESTA=%CUMESTA%
SET PCUMRESE=%CUMRESE%
SET PCUMPRCT=%CUMPRCT%
SET PCURESTA=%CURESTA%
SET PCURRESE=%CURRESE%
SET PCURPRCT=%CURPRCT%
REM Skip leading zero for negative numbers
IF %CUMESTA% LSS 0 GOTO dbreak1
IF %CUMESTA% LSS 10 SET PCUMESTA=0%CUMESTA%
:dbreak1
IF %CUMRESE% LSS 0 GOTO dbreak2
IF %CUMRESE% LSS 10 SET PCUMRESE=0%CUMRESE%
:dbreak2
IF %CURESTA% LSS 0 GOTO dbreak3
IF %CURESTA% LSS 10 SET PCURESTA=0%CURESTA%
:dbreak3
IF %CURRESE% LSS 0 GOTO dbreak4
IF %CURRESE% LSS 10 SET PCURRESE=0%CURRESE%
:dbreak4
REM Print line break and header every 10 cycles
IF %TESTCYCLE% EQU 0 ECHO .
IF %TESTCYCLE% EQU 0 ECHO %TIME% - CURRENT AVERAGE I 00%% I 10%% I 20%% I 30%% I 40%% I 50%% I 60%% I 70%% I 80%% I 90%% I
REM Print Current percentage, Average Percentage and Histogram
ECHO %TIME% - %PCURPRCT%%% (%PCURRESE%/%PCURESTA%) %PCUMPRCT%%% (%PCUMRESE%/%PCUMESTA%) I %PST00% I %PST10% I %PST20% I %PST30% I %PST40% I %PST50% I %PST60% I %PST70% I %PST80% I %PST90% I
REM Save values into Previous
SET /A PRVACTI=%NXTACTI%
SET /A PRVPASS=%NXTPASS%
SET /A PRVFAIL=%NXTFAIL%
SET /A PRVRESE=%NXTRESE%
REM Loop again
GOTO begin
Copy and paste this in notepad and save it as CheckRST.bat
Then run it whilst seeding to see if your getting hit by sandvine. More deets here:
»How to test how many connections are being reset by RST pack | |
|
| 
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Some of the Cox reports seem to match my experience with Comcast.
Guys, use the links at the bottom of my post here, and post your results, please.
A wireshark capture of this interference would also be excellent evidence.
-- Robb Topolski | |
|
| |
Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by funchords :Some of the Cox reports seem to match my experience with Comcast. Guys, use the links at the bottom of my post here, and post your results, please. A wireshark capture of this interference would also be excellent evidence. -- Robb Topolski Umm....Links? | |
|
| | | |
jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| A new response from Cox, including a very direct and unambiguous denial. I'd note that the malformed paragraphs are indicative of heavy cutting and pasting. Emphasis (below) is mine. So here you have it. Cox denies interfering with BitTorrent. (Unless they want to argue that they're not actively interfering with it, but passively interfering with it?!)
Thank you for your e-mail to Cox Communications. I understand that you
want to know if Cox interfere in any way with BitTorrent
traffic? I apologize for this inconvenience.
As you might know Bit Torrent is a Peer-to-Peer service. BitTorrent
metafiles do not store copyrighted data, hence the technology itself
does not constitute copyright infringement. Nevertheless, majority of
BitTorrent trackers users utilize the technology to download
copyrighted
material such as movies and software without legally purchasing them,
consequently, it led to tremendous legal pressure, usually from the
MPAA
and RIAA, to shut down numerous BitTorrent trackers.
Cox Communications adhere with the Intellectual Property Infringement
policy. You may not use the Service to post, copy, transmit, or
disseminate any content that infringes the patents, copyrights, trade
secrets, trademark, or propriety rights of any party. Cox assumes no
responsibility, and you assume all risks regarding the determination of
whether material is in the public domain, or may otherwise be used by
you for such purposes. We do not actively interfere with BitTorrent
and
you are solely responsible for using the service.
Cox also blocks some ports for security reasons. If BitTorrent uses any
of these port, it could be blocked. Please visit the link below where
you can find additional information of the ports Cox block. | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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kabhal
Premium
join:2002-02-05
Oklahoma City, OK
2 edits | I came to Cox from AT&T because Cox had a faster tier. 12000/1000; with at&t the highest I had was 6016/768 - but the connection was rock solid and worked great with at&t, web/torrents/usenet/ftp/gaming whatever. So no problems with that, they just didn't have the fastest speed.
I haven't tried torrents much yet with my new Cox 12000/1000 so I don't know about any "interferance", but my newsgroup downloads are fantastic. =) Unbelievably fast. I use giganews/newzbin/and newsleecher and my god, it's like night and day speedwise vs AT&T. Really great speeds. I'm really happy with it (had it for about month and half now) so I hope they don't start limiting/degrading usenet access like they are doing with torrents.  | |
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| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? I usually max out my lines with Azureus. I'm in Wichita.
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Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? | |
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jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| UPDATE: It looks like Cox has been tweaking their parameters since my initial complaint on Sunday. (Sitting at 0kB/s for very long periods of time.) I am still noticing some interference with my upload stream. But I'm able to reach and mostly sustain up to my self-imposed cap for stretches of a few minutes at a time. (Even if my uploads get to a sputtering start at first.)
Compared to Sunday, it looks like it is now probably operating more with the intent that they were shooting for, which would be to occasionally disrupt off-net upload streams in order to give on-net connections a chance to take hold. My upstream bandwidth gets torn down here and there, by varying amounts and at semi-random intervals (as far as I can tell).
Not that this doesn't still break networking standards. User funchords' definition of 'abuse' covers that well enough. | |
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| wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Funny, my tests between my server in SD and my line in Tulsa seem to be showing a 100% inability to act as a seed for either. The route between the two is 100% Cox.
jshort was kind enough to offer his help and we found that I can seed from my CBS line in Arkansas, but not from CBS in San Diego, nor from my residential line in Tulsa. They've apparently not gotten around to installing the filters in the Kansas market yet.
It appears Cox is doing their best to block seeding 100%, even on CBS lines.
Now I'm angry. As I mentioned earlier, seeding from a residential line is, strictly speaking, a contravention of the TOS we all agree to. By contract, I should be able to seed all I want on the CBS lines, but cannot. | |
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ZaRRaZa
join:2005-12-04
Norway
| just want to say... been using cox for 4 years now. I get constant 1.5-2.0 MB/s down and 150-200 KB/s up (at night time reaches 250 KB/s) from private torrents.
Down record for few secs is 2.9 MB/s ... and constant 2.5 MB/s for few minz. And im positive that i went over 60 GB at least once and 15 GB upload a lot. I would say my down record is 100-150 GB a month and about 50GB upload. Never received a letter. So far cox is really nice. The one negative thing is that they need to increase up speeds. That split between down and up is ridiculous (20/2).
cya | |
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Plasticman
Will Work For Bandwidth
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Harrisville, RI
clubs: | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? An answer to your question if they are interferring:
»Cox Also Disrupting P2P Traffic
Story posted yesterday and they had Robb check it out....
Plasticman | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by ZaRRaZa :That split between down and up is ridiculous (20/2) Some of us are only getting 12/1.
with 2 up you must be in a fios area. is fios available to you?
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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ZaRRaZa
join:2005-12-04
Norway
2 edits | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? i dont know boi... i been tryin to find out that forever with no success... lol
I been usin cox for 4 years, my parents for 6, and i would stay with cox if they would offer more upstream... but now the difference between cox and fios is so huge... that if i'll have a chance to switch to fios... I WILL...
u know its hard to leave cox... cuz i was gettin very good service all the time. Had only 1-2 issues for all the time i been with cox... but u kno they cant keep up with fios. I read somewhere in this forum that cox gonna update up speedz to 4 mbps only by 2010.... thats ridiculous, because by that time fios gonna be offering 1000/1000 or so to home users.... lol.
Only strongest survives... | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| From Cox's David Deliman, Product Communications Manager:
To ensure the best possible online experience for our customers, Cox actively manages network traffic through a variety of methods including traffic prioritization and protocol filtering. Cox does not prohibit the use of file-sharing services for uploads or downloads, or discriminate against any specific services in any way. To help our customers make the most out of their Internet experience, we take proactive measures to ensure that bandwidth intensive applications do not negatively impact their service. These network management practices are outlined in our subscriber agreement and Acceptable Use Policy. »Cox Also Disrupting P2P Traffic
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. | |
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| jmccorm
join:2003-08-17
Tulsa, OK
| Re: (update) Cox Manager: Cox Confirms They Use Protocol Filteri PR TRANSLATION FOLLOWS:
Cox actively manages network traffic through a variety of methods including traffic prioritization and protocol filtering. "We do some things. Here are a few examples that I want to throw out there. This isn't the whole list, though."
Cox does not prohibit the use of file-sharing services for uploads or downloads. "We do not outright *stop* (through technology or policy) the use of file-sharing services on our network."
(Cox does not) discriminate against any specific services in any way. ERROR. ERROR. Inconsistency detected. You just got through saying that "Cox actively managers network traffic through a variety of methods including ... protocol filtering." If that isn't discriminating against any specific service, what is?
To help our customers make the most out of their Internet experience, we take proactive measures to ensure that bandwidth intensive applications do not negatively impact their service. "We take proactive measures against bandwidth intensive applications, but we won't go into any detail about what that means." "But we degrade a user's service in order not to negatively impact their service. We have to kill the citizens in order to save them."
These network management practices are outlined in our subscriber agreement and Acceptable Use Policy. "Please refer to this generic document which doesn't answer the question in any more detail." | |
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Movieman420
join:2007-08-28
Rivesville, WV
| At least they're admitting that they do filter protocols and that's WAY more than Comcast's PR will admit.
No doubt in my mind, Cox will be joining Comcast in the FCC complaints and class action law suits. At least Cox won't be accused of lying to and deceiving their customers. | |
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AnonHRCust
@cox.net
| I'm in Hampton Roads (Virginia Beach) and I can confirm that Cox filters P2P traffic here. I noticed this with eMule a while ago, all the uploads would be killed instantly. I haven't used eMule in probably a year but I guess they're still doing it. BitTorrent seeding is also limited. Sometimes the connection will be killed instantly, other times I will be able to upload for about 30 seconds before the connection dies. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by AnonHRCust :
I'm in Hampton Roads (Virginia Beach) and I can confirm that Cox filters P2P traffic here.
That sounds exactly like Sandvine.
I have had outside requests to gather more evidence. If you are familiar with Wireshark and either Gnutella, ED2K, and BitTorrent and can spend an hour or so with someone on the phone some evening, please write to me at robb(at-sign)funchords.com.
Thanks!
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. | |
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| | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? Again.. welcome to 1984.
I wonder what will happen when the masses dump cox as a result of this nonsense.
-Rob | |
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MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
2 edits | I've given up on BitTorrent, and moved back to usenet. I'm seeing nearly 2MB/sec sustained speeds with usenet on my 12/1mbps Premier connection...better than advertised!
I'm seeing occasional boosts up over 3MB/sec! | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by MarkyD :I've given up on BitTorrent, and moved back to usenet. I'm seeing nearly 2MB/sec sustained speeds with usenet on my 12/1mbps Premier connection...better than advertised! I'm seeing occasional boosts up over 3MB/sec! You obviously aren't using cox's outsourced highwinds crapola if you're getting speeds like that
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by dvd536 :said by MarkyD :I've given up on BitTorrent, and moved back to usenet. I'm seeing nearly 2MB/sec sustained speeds with usenet on my 12/1mbps Premier connection...better than advertised! I'm seeing occasional boosts up over 3MB/sec! You obviously aren't using cox's outsourced highwinds crapola if you're getting speeds like that I think there was a node split in my neighborhood or something. Performance has increased by leaps and bounds over the last 2 weeks. No outages recently, and great performance...except with BitTorrent. Sigh. | |
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ANON853
@cox.net | Ok, this is bullshit. My bit torrent downloads have just recently slowed way way down. I hope dsl is available, if so i will be switching soon | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
1 edit | Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? said by ANON853 :
My bit torrent downloads have just recently slowed way way down. It's possible, but unlikely, that Cox is throttling downloads. Make sure that your BitTorrent upload settings are set correctly. The wrong upload settings definitely affect your download speeds.
1. Take a speed test, note your upload speed in kb/s. (e.g. 248 kb/s)
2. Knock off the last digit to get the right upload speed limit in kB/s. (e.g. 24 kB/s) Set your upload speed limit to that number or less.
3. Wait 15 minutes after starting a download or after changing parameters for the protocol to find good reciprocating peers.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. | |
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ANON853
@cox.net
| Re: [OK] Cox doesn't mess with Bittorrent traffic, does it? My settings are fine. Every instance of my bit torrent connection has slowed down. And yes i know how Sandvine works, im not saying that Sandvine is responsible, but something definately is.
Also not to burst any bubble, but Sandvines tell tale behavior was "hot" on IRC about a month before it hit the news here. | |
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