| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Re: Caps and pay-by-byte is just around the corner I'm all for byte billing if it's fair. Wholesale bandwidth pricing for the big guys is cheap (somewhere south of 5 cents per gig). If whimpy Canadian provider TekSavvy can offer increments of 100 gigs for $10.00 if paid up front, with overages at .25 a gig, Comcast could certainly do better.
.........But we all know that won't happen, so I'm not holding my breath for anything to change anytime soon. |
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4 edits | Again, the only way that billing-by-the-byte takes off in the U.S. market is if every single ISP gets together and decides they're willing to implement an entirely new pricing scheme in unison while completely ignoring consumer revolt. An ISP would take major subscriber losses were they to single-handedly try to change the American pricing model to mirror Australia's just to please investors like Tom (HCT, Retire Rich, TCH, or whatever pseudonym he's using this month).
If Comcast started suddenly billing by usage, customers would flee to competing bell services. It would be marketing seppuku in an industry that's drilled unlimited use into the consumer consciousness.
I expect we might start seeing overage fees in extreme (400GB+ monthly) cases, but that will be the extent of this model in the U.S. I think this face-fanning, capacity apocalypse rhetoric is largely the territory of men in the industry eager to buy new boats. |
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| reply to JasonD
said by JasonD :
Wholesale bandwidth pricing for the big guys is cheap (somewhere south of 5 cents per gig).
The price you quote is for backbone transfer prices. It does NOT include the costs of upgrading residential distribution networks to handle much larger bandwidth loads. The cost to do those upgrades has to be included in the "per byte tiers". And it won't be 5 cents or 25 cents per gig. It would have to be closer to a $1/gig.
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| reply to JasonD
There needs to be a way of making sure that one of my kids does not click on a link that cost me $50 in bandwidth overages. |
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approval from:
fiberguy 
| Yes.
Don't let them click on any links. |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
How in the HELL do you get $1.00/GB pricing? HELL, if I BOUGHT a T-1, I could move a total of 950GB/month, for only $350.00 a month. THAT's 33 cents per GB, with a DEDICATED LINE. The SHARED medium, with a massively nice 10-1 ratio, means it would cost about .03 cents PER GB.
Your greed is betraying you. There is NO WAY they could ever justify charging MORE that .10 cents per GB. (and that's assuming they have a 1-3 ratio)
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to Karl Bode
Boy did you just rear your ugly socialist little head, Karl.
It's all about new boats huh? Seriously... jealous of those who worked hard and earned something? I suppose anyone that does work hard to get where they are should give it up so you can have cheaper broadband?
And no.. you're also wrong. You see things only one way - and it shows you have no business experience what so ever.
There are two ways prices raise.. one, you're right.. they tend to do it at once. RARE.. VERY RARE. The only industry, outside of regulated industries, that raise in lockstep are the airlines. The other way is usually when one person takes the first step - the others fall in step. Gas stations do this all the time. One of the 4 corners will raise a nickel and the others will follow the next day.
It's funny how you talk about Comcast in your example with customer who would flee to competing bell services. All I've seen in the news is Bell wanting to charge more for transport - and mostly because they cut their own throats when they tried to undercut Cable with the $14.95 pricing. It was only then that the 3rd rail charges reared...
I don't buy your take on this at all. It's clear you hate cable, and that's your choice, but your opinions are far from reality.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." |
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| You clearly don't know anything about gas stations or airlines.
In the case of airlines ( I have a lot of friends in revenue mgmt at a major US airline ) and the way it always goes down is one carrier raises the price and then prays to God that the others will follow so it can `stick`. It almost never does. One or two might match and then one will go back and others will chase them in fear. You'll hear exec's talking about how `we are a premium product` but it's all B.S. Travel ( and gas and internet access ) is a commodity product.
And in gas stations... you'll frequently find different prices for gas on different sides of the street because the pricing is all done by zones. |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx:How in the HELL do you get $1.00/GB pricing? HELL, if I BOUGHT a T-1, I could move a total of 950GB/month, for only $350.00 a month. THAT's 33 cents per GB, with a DEDICATED LINE. At $350/mo you're not going to get a dedicated line.
1) DS1 service is a tariffed data offering with pricing regulated by the PUC. Just like gas stations can't sell for a loss to undercut the competition in most states, _LECs can't charge less than the tariffed rate for service. On the average you pay $225/mo alone for your loop charge (the raw circuit with no data on it); sure in some places (ie, Dallas) you can get $125 loops, but in other places (ie, Northern Illinois) you can pay upwards of $800-1000 a loop. Keep in mind that the loop is just an access circuit, it's just like a phone line that is powered with no dialtone. Once you have the loop you still need to provision service at the other end to somewhere.
2) There's no way in hell you can move 950GB on a T1 in any scenario outside of pattern testing. You can move just over 450GB in one direction, but there's no way you can saturate the circuit bidirectionally with real traffic. You'd step all over your own TCP ACKs.
3) Given that your loop charge encompasses the vast majority of the $350/mo you quoted, this is GUARANTEED to be a shared connection in at least 3 places before you hit an Internet backbone. The circuit will most certainly be an ATM or FrameRelay circuit so you'll have oversubscription in the LEC's frame/ATM cloud, the access circuit between your ISP of choice and the LEC cloud will most certainly also be oversubscribed, and the circuit from the LEC to their upstream Internet carriers will also be oversubscribed.
Dedicated systems can certainly be built, but the solution would be significantly more expensive than what you are implying. |
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approval from:
fAcEtIOUs
| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Re: Caps and pay-by-byte is just around the corner said by fAcEtIOUs:said by JasonD :
Wholesale bandwidth pricing for the big guys is cheap (somewhere south of 5 cents per gig).
The price you quote is for backbone transfer prices. It does NOT include the costs of upgrading residential distribution networks to handle much larger bandwidth loads. The cost to do those upgrades has to be included in the "per byte tiers". And it won't be 5 cents or 25 cents per gig. It would have to be closer to a $1/gig. The number you provide is still too high, while the 5 cents number is too low for the last mile. The more reasonable price for the last mile would be in the range of $.50 to $.75/GB. There is no was that the cost per GB would increase 20 fold. A ten fold increase in more in line with reality, especially as costs decrease. |
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 sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:Boy did you just rear your ugly socialist little head, Karl. ...says the guy that railed against name-calling earlier
said by fiberguy:It's all about new boats huh? Seriously... jealous of those who worked hard and earned something? I suppose anyone that does work hard to get where they are should give it up so you can have cheaper broadband? See, here's what I love about your posts. Let's lay out how we get to pot-kettle-black territory:
-You claim DTV is in the wrong with this because they are getting "free" bandwidth, since they'll only be paying a ton of cash to whomever their transit providers are. They make money on the VOD service, they pay their transit providers to deliver the bandwidth to customers, they pay the copyright owners for the showing.
-You then state that you are an "ISP" and a "datacenter" with 3 whole connections. You also state quite clearly that you only do hosting and don't do any access. As someone who's also in the business, I can describe your traffic as very assymetrical. You send out data that end-users at home or work request and do not receive a large amount of data from customers
-Knowing that these 3 other ISPs that you buy bandwidth from do not generally give it away for free, I think we can assume you pay three bills for transit each month. (hint: consider some access - the way most people bill, you have a bunch of "free" inbound traffic you're leaving on the table - don't thank me, that tip's on the house).
-Looking at the above, it sure looks like you are getting the same "free ride" that DTV is. The only difference is the content you're hosting.
Please explain, Mr. Black Kettle. |
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sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to espaeth
said by espaeth:2) There's no way in hell you can move 950GB on a T1 in any scenario outside of pattern testing. You can move just over 450GB in one direction, but there's no way you can saturate the circuit bidirectionally with real traffic. You'd step all over your own TCP ACKs. Bzzt. Wrong answer. You sure can fill a T1 in both directions. Try it out some time, I have! Even in 1998 on a Cisco 2501 with nothing fancy but WFQ turned on. |
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| reply to JasonD
Gee, we in the U.S. can go to this like the Brits do for their home phone service. Pay by the minute... That's not going to work here. |
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| reply to fiberguy
Funny, gas stations around here usually raise it all at the same time, city wide. I rarely see a price difference from one side of town to the other... Talk about oligopoly... Hopefully there are enough ISPs around to not let this happen.
I'm all for profit. I owned a business and worked really hard only to have it wiped out by a hurricane a couple of years ago. I don't not want you to make a profit.
I like to make money as much as the next person, but I also like to treat the consumer fairly. There can be a happy medium. |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to espaeth
I disagree. In mass near where i live I can get a T-1 (analog) for $199. With this I get a direct link to my buddies data center and off to the net. If I wanted to buy a pop to the net from the cloud its only $70 more from new Verizon business / old MCI.
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espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| reply to sporkme
said by sporkme:[Bzzt. Wrong answer. You sure can fill a T1 in both directions. Try it out some time, I have! Even in 1998 on a Cisco 2501 with nothing fancy but WFQ turned on. .. and the people behind that router didn't murder you? Given the exponential increase in serialization delay once bandwidth utilization jumps over 70% on a T1, the network becomes nearly unusable even if you are just saturating in one direction. |
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espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:I disagree. In mass near where i live I can get a T-1 (analog) for $199. With this I get a direct link to my buddies data center and off to the net. If I wanted to buy a pop to the net from the cloud its only $70 more from new Verizon business / old MCI. It's going to be cheaper in your market because the loop termination tariff is $80 - $100/mo per Point of Termination, depending on if you go with a 1 - 5 year commit on the service. (That's significantly below the national average for termination fees) Since you're terminating in the cloud you'd also only have to pay midlink mileage costs between the cloud and your residence. If you meant you can get a true point to point T1 to said data center, I have to assume the people you are working with are terminating it on a channelized DS3? (and thus making the termination costs significantly lower)
Source: »retailgateway.bdi.gte.com:1490/v···=Created
Page 42, section 30.7.7 |
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 gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | reply to jgnj
said by jgnj :
There needs to be a way of making sure that one of my kids does not click on a link that cost me $50 in bandwidth overages.
Id smash my computer if that were even possible.
We will just have to bypass those carriers lines that attempt to destroy the internet by overcharging. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to Enlightener
Clearly huh? You say I clearly don't know anything about it and then you confirmed what I said. Nice. |
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