BillyClub
join:2003-09-01
Des Plaines, IL
| jumping...Part 2
Went over to dads yesterday to get his car started.
It jump started easily and all seemed well. Drove it about 30 minutes in stop & go traffic most likely never above 30-40 mph. Car started up again after shutdown and dad said he restarted the car 2 or 3 times again last night. This morning I got a call from him saying it would not start again???? How long/far/fast should the drive be in order to get a decient charge??? I know it might be the battery, alternator, wiring or anything else, just trying to start at the least expensive. Battery is less then a year old so it should be under warranty, and you can check the alternator by removing the positive cable on the battery with the motor running. He's going to get a charge from someone who's in his condo unit and I told him if it does it again I'll trade cars with him and use it on the expressway and check it out the next day. If it does it for me I'll take it to Sears or somewhere to have the battery or alternator checked out.....Anything else???? |
|
Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: How to charge a dead battery
said by BillyClub  : Went over to dads yesterday to get his car started. It jump started easily and all seemed well. Drove it about 30 minutes in stop & go traffic most likely never above 30-40 mph. Car started up again after shutdown and dad said he restarted the car 2 or 3 times again last night. This morning I got a call from him saying it would not start again???? How long/far/fast should the drive be in order to get a decient charge??? At night with the lights and other accessories running it would take 6 to 10 hours to get a 20% - 40% surface charge on a dead battery and it could discharge to dead in under 24 hours after sitting. During the daytime, 4 to 6 hours. Both require driving at highway speeds (55 MPH to 65 MPH), not stop and go driving or idling. Driving with a dead battery after jumping can sometimes over-stress the alternator and make it or the internal regulator fail.
A dead battery should always be recharged with a battery charger until it is at 90% to 95% capacity then it should be load test after it cools down. That requires a battery charger and load tester. The alternator is not a battery charger, but is only there to maintain the charge in the battery, not restore the charge to a dead battery.
Regards,
Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
|
matt5
join:2001-10-06
Lagrangeville, NY | reply to BillyClub
Re: jumping...Part 2
I also would not disconnect the battery with the car running! Bad idea. |
|
Anonuser
join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
| reply to BillyClub
Go to walmart, pickup a $10 charger and charge it overnight. If the battery or alternator is bad, you will know within 24 hours of disconnecting it.
It sounds though, that the alternator is ok. It's possiable the battery is now sulfated due to being left discharged/multuple discharges.
--
»KmanScooters.com Home of Wisconsin's Most Affordable Cars, Motorcycles and Scooters |
|
BillyClub
join:2003-09-01
Des Plaines, IL
| reply to BillyClub
Finalizing the post: (sorry if I'm repeating myself)
Traded cars with dad and on the way home I noticed the footwell lites, dome and maplites were all on and nothing my wife could do to the headlite switch would do any more then turn them off for about 5 seconds and then they would come on again (also pushing the maplite buttons would not turn them off). Put the car in the garage and was able to get the interior lites off by pulling a couple of fuses. Called dad and he asked me to take the car in to dealer which I did on monday. Got a call on tuesday saying to pick it up, price would be in $40.00 range. After arriving found when they replaced the fuses they could find nothing wrong and the service person spent about 20 minutes or so showing my wife how everything worked - and it did.
Paid, and about halfway to dads condo my wife honked, got my attention and told me the lites were on again. Turned around and this time they put a scope on the car ??? and came back saying that the module (which I don't know ) was completely shorted out. This took about a hour to replace and dads checking accout is about $400.00 lighter. But he sems to be happy and my wife is satisfied so I'm happy.
Keeping fingers crossed it dosen't happen again!!! |
|
CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA | reply to BillyClub
If people had any idea what a negative impact charging a dead battery with their alternator has on their alternator, they'd never do it (save for emergency situations). |
|
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| reply to BillyClub
I think that really depends on who makes the alternator (OEM or K-mart rebuilt).
The ones on some cars (with seat heaters etc) will run at 80-100 amps for hours on end without batting an eyelash.
The load presented by charging a battery is relatively insignificant compared to the load of powering seat heaters, blower motor, lights, rear window defogger, and wipers.
Charging a battery, even from flat, is an insignificant task for a modern alternator. I expect 95%+ of alternators currently put on vehicles are good for basically the lifetime of the vehicle, assuming that they aren't bathed in either salt or oil.
Of course, if the alternator is rebuilt using substandard parts, then all bets are off.
Please note, most of my experience is with Denso products, about 50% made in the States and 50% from Japan.
--
Overheard: "I could careless matter of Fact"
|
|
Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| said by 3SGTE :Charging a battery, even from flat, is an insignificant task for a modern alternator. Not in stop and go traffic for 30 to 45 Minutes and at night with the lights on. There is simply not enough time and it is not the designed role of the alternator to recharge dead batteries.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
|
joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to BillyClub
Totally agree yes it might revive the battery but its just not the correct way to do it and unless you are driving for a few hours on a long trip it isnt going to fully re-charge the battery.
Get a $50 battery at walmart (same stuff Pep Boys sells as a "Bosch" battery)
Get a battery charger and charge as directed.
Go to auto parts place they will test your battery and alternator for free.
Pick one.
--
Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir |
|
Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
1 edit | reply to 3SGTE
said by 3SGTE :I think that really depends on who makes the alternator (OEM or K-mart rebuilt). We do it (jump and go) all the time and for the most part never have a problem even though the first job may only be a few miles away. Heck even if one does call the motor pool all they will do is kill a couple of hours sending a tire maintenance guy by who then jump starts the truck and if it stays running bye bye and if not he will install a new battery test the alternator and then you will be on your way late for that AM call but on the way. The only time they will tow is if the alternator has failed or the truck will not jump start.
Charge a battery whats that? 
Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician. |
|
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds :said by 3SGTE :Charging a battery, even from flat, is an insignificant task for a modern alternator. Not in stop and go traffic for 30 to 45 Minutes and at night with the lights on. There is simply not enough time and it is not the designed role of the alternator to recharge dead batteries. We will have to agree to disagree then.
Clearly, if I jump someone who has a dead battery, I am not going to tell them to use the vehicle in a manner that will not charge the battery.
A typical instruction is to drive for at least 30 minutes with as many of the electrical accessories off as it is safe to leave off.
If the practice truly were harmful for the vehicle, then there would be a warning in the owners manual. I am willing to bet a coffee that everyone here can find an owners manual with boosting/jumping instructions, but not a prohibition against using the alternator to charge the battery.
Since basically every owners manual carries instructions on how to boost the vehicle, isn't it obvious that the vehicle manufacturers approve of the alternator charging the battery? |
|
LazMan
join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to BillyClub
Batteries are complicated pieces of technology - and not all 'dead' batteries are the same...
A battery that is just slightly discharged, below the required current to start the vehicle, can be boosted, and the alternator will be able to 'top' it up in a pretty short order.
A battery that is fully discharged actually undergoes physical and chemical changes that may alter it's internal resistance, making it either less capable, or incapable of holding a charge. Trying to use the alternator to charge such a battery puts extra strain on the electrical systems in the car, and may result in damage.
A slow trickle charge may be better accepted by a battery in a fully discharged state, rather then the rapid charging provided by the alternator; but once a battery has been fully drained, it will never be the same again; and probably should be replaced.
Laz |
|
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs: | You can make it sound as complicated as you want, but a battery that is not accepting a charge is not loading the alternator. |
|
LazMan
join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by 3SGTE :You can make it sound as complicated as you want, but a battery that is not accepting a charge is not loading the alternator. If several plates in a battery have shorted together (common in batteries that have been severly discharged), lowering the internal resistance of the battery; large amounts of current will be flowing through that battery... When the car is running, where does that currect come from?
Laz |
|
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| There is a hell of a difference between a shorted battery and a battery that is not accepting a charge.
It is not common. Out of hundreds of batteries I have replaced, I have seen 2 or 3 that were shorted.
The point of the discussion isn't about how to charge a shorted battery. That obviously isn't going to happen.
The point is about using a charger or using the alternator.
The OP picked solved his problem which was a parasitic draw due to a bad body control module. |
|
LazMan
join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON | I'll disagree with you about how common internal shorts are in batteries - but I'll leave it there.
A charger is the best way to go, for a heavily discharged battery; IMO.
Laz |
|
mityfowl
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
1 edit | x |
|
