keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
|  QAM Changes from Philly VHO?
Tonight I was unable to tune any of the local (OTA) HD broadcasts on my TV's QAM tuner (set does not have cable card). This used to be doable with this TV since I got it in early September and the QAM versions of the SD OTA channels are still tunable but on different QAM channels. In doing a re-scan for QAM channels, it seems as if the whole lineup has moved and the OTA signals are now encrypted (the QAMs they used to be on don't even show up on the scan anymore - used to be in the 71 to 74 range). FYI - HD DVR still tunes them so they are still on the system.
I thought VZ was required to carry the OTA channels open. Also, it would be nice if they let us know if they are changing the QAM allocations.
Anyone else seeing this?
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| said by keyboards  :Tonight I was unable to tune any of the local (OTA) HD broadcasts on my TV's QAM tuner (set does not have cable card). This used to be doable with this TV since I got it in early September and the QAM versions of the SD OTA channels are still tunable but on different QAM channels. In doing a re-scan for QAM channels, it seems as if the whole lineup has moved and the OTA signals are now encrypted (the QAMs they used to be on don't even show up on the scan anymore - used to be in the 71 to 74 range). FYI - HD DVR still tunes them so they are still on the system. I thought VZ was required to carry the OTA channels open. Also, it would be nice if they let us know if they are changing the QAM allocations. Anyone else seeing this? Sorry, can't tell here, as I have a Cablecard in my TV, if I remove it, as I understand, I would need a Verizon Tech visit to re-authorize it..
Not going there, but I would support any positive movements to a 100% QAM broadcast out of the Philly VHO, even if it is encrypted.
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
edit:
November 14th, @07:35AM
| reply to keyboards
KA3SGM -
Thanks for the reply. The HD locals were already on the system in QAM and un-encrypted. ABC HD - 73.3, NBS HD - 71.3, CBS HD 72.2, FOX HD 73.1 (all channels are QAM) with all the "analog" channel QAM versions in the range of 63.0 to 66.1.
I guess no one else is using a non-cablecard tuner based on the lack of responses or other posters complaining.
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA
| I have two HD tv sets and cannot get the QAM channels on either. I get them with Comcast but not with Verizon. Since I have two HD boxes, it is not a problem. When I am recording two HD shows, it would be nice to be able to switch inputs and get the QAM HD channels. |
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Electro960
join:2005-12-21 | reply to keyboards
These channels should definately not be encrypted since the SD analog verisons aren't. My assumption is that its an error on Verizon's part. |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
edit:
November 14th, @09:05AM
| reply to keyboards
Henry and Electro -
Thanks for the responses. I have posted on the VZ Direct forum and am waiting for an answer (probably won't be until later today since most of the responders are on the west coast).
BTW Henry - as I stated, until this week I was able to tune the local HDs with no problems (was watching the NFL games on the TV tuner).
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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knarf829
join:2007-06-02
edit:
November 14th, @09:32AM
| reply to keyboards
If this is indeed a case of Verizon encrypting those channels and not just an equipment issue (or Verizon moving them beyond what your QAM tuner can tune) you should let them know that it is a violation of FCC regulations to encrypt these channels. These channels must be carried in the clear.
My understanding is that local broadcast HDs do *not* fall under "must carry" rules as of yet, but when they *are* carried they *must* be carried in a way that's available to all subscribers in the most basic level of service. The most basic level of service on Verizon is plugging the analog cable into a cable ready TV.
In other words, they are not yet required to carry the HD broadcast channels, but if they do and if they provide a level of service that includes plugging a cable into a cable ready TV (analog or digital), the HD channels must be available via to all subscribers via this most basic method. They cannot encrypt them.
From what I can tell doing a few google searches, this interpretation of the rule is set out in this fcc document:
»a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422···23-filed |
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Electro960
join:2005-12-21
| reply to keyboards
I don't see why they cannot encrypt the channels, just as long as they don't apply these channels on any tier higher than basic. It could be possible that VZ may require cable cards for all level of services, including basic. This way they can charge the cable card fee per outlet and the 1 charge for basic. Look at DIRECTV, they charge $4.50 per each additional outlet, otherwise you get nothing. |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
edit:
November 14th, @10:00AM
| said by Electro960 :I don't see why they cannot encrypt the channels, just as long as they don't apply these channels on any tier higher than basic. It could be possible that VZ may require cable cards for all level of services, including basic. This way they can charge the cable card fee per outlet and the 1 charge for basic. Look at DIRECTV, they charge $4.50 per each additional outlet, otherwise you get nothing. The issue is that all the SD broadcasts are there in unencrypted QAM AND the HD channels were clear until after this weekend. If they are changing the service level then I will consider canceling and going to satellite since they now have more HD and I would have the same penalty for recording / watching.
Also, as Knarf said - it has been interpreted that if they carry the HD OTA signal, it must be carried clear and I do pay for HD service (HD DVR).
To my knowledge, VZ does not have a per outlet charge, only a per STB charge. That means if I wanted to hook up 25 TVs (not that I would or that the signal is strong enough) I should be able to receive all the non-cable channels including QAM versions of the OTA signals and HD if my tuner supports it.
I am paying nearly $100 a month for the TV portion of my VZ bill and this is not an acceptable change in service!
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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knarf829
join:2007-06-02
| reply to Electro960
said by Electro960 :I don't see why they cannot encrypt the channels, just as long as they don't apply these channels on any tier higher than basic. It could be possible that VZ may require cable cards for all level of services, including basic. Except, of course, they don't. We're talking about "is" here, not "could." He's having an actual problem, not a theoretical one. |
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afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| reply to keyboards
I did a scan last night after I saw your post. All of the SD and HD locals are still in the clear here in Northern Virginia. What I did notice is that one of the HD locals - MPT (Maryland Public TV) which previously was not mapped to a broadcast channel now was showing up with the sub-channels at 67-1, 67-2, 67-3. All of the HD locals here are mapped by the Samsung H260F to their broadcast channel: 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, and so on.
If you have the 6416 DVR, tune to one of your HD locals. This may work for the Motorola 2500 as well. Turn the DVR off, press Select twice on the remote to bring up the diagnostics menu. Scroll down to d06 Channel status, press right arrow. This is a 2 page field, one for each tuner. Scroll up or down to the tuner with the HD local channel. The Tuned frequency will tell you the QAM channel.
QAM 71 = 507 MHz; QAM 72 = 513 MHz; QAM 73 = 519 MHzl QAM 74 = 525 MHz.
My bet is that the HD locals are still there, but someone at Verizon messed up the settings or the TV is having problems with the PSIP channel mapping info. |
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andrewRedHil
join:2006-02-14
Red Hill, PA
 ·Siteground.com
| Can you check the services on 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3, plus 10-1 and 10-2?
Each OTA provider adds a data stream into the channels called PSIP. This can provide guide data, and your QAM tuner may be able to display that guide data. The other thing the PSIP does is provide your Tuner with a Virtual channel number, hence the 6-1 and 6-2 reference above. All of the Philly off-air provides use the PSIP information to associate their broadcast channel number just for this reason. So you know where to find 6ABC, on channel six, the -1 and -2 are subchannel. Verizon just turned on the PSIP pass-thru for the Philadelphia off-airs. They should still be unencrypted, and easier to find and remember now. |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
edit:
November 14th, @11:10AM
| reply to afiggatt
said by afiggatt : My bet is that the HD locals are still there, but someone at Verizon messed up the settings or the TV is having problems with the PSIP channel mapping info. My Sharp displays only the QAM channels (72.2, 73.1, etc.) and does not re-map to the OTA ATSC channel. Which version of firmware do you have in your DVR? I am still on 1.0 and just wanted to verify your instructions for getting to the diagnostic menus (I think they differ from 1.0 to 2.0).
Thanks
EDIT: Let me repeat myself - this is brand new different behavior than from 3 days ago and I now don't find ANY signal on the QAMs wher the HDs used to be.
EDIT2: If they did just turn on PSIP, wouldn't the QAM channel still tune it directly? Not sure how to tune it to 6-1 or 10-1, will look in manual (did I really say that  ) tonight when I get home.
--REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| said by keyboards :My Sharp displays only the QAM channels (72.2, 73.1, etc.) and does not re-map to the OTA ATSC channel. Which version of firmware do you have in your DVR? I am still on 1.0 and just wanted to verify your instructions for getting to the diagnostic menus (I think they differ from 1.0 to 2.0). I have the new IMG, but I think the procedure to get to the diagnostics menu is the same. Turn box off, Press Select twice. The IMG added a button press to get to the setup menu. Turn box off. Old [better] software: press Menu. New [crappy] IMG: press Select, then press Menu.
If Verizon is now passing the PSIP data through, I think you need to do a rescan and then look for the channels. Doesn't the Sharp provide a channel list in the setup menus somewhere? All of my ATSC/QAM tuners do that so you can select favorites, turn channels off. Your locals are now probably at channels 3-1, 6-1, 10-1, 12-1, and so on which is much easier for the average customer to find. |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| said by afiggatt : If Verizon is now passing the PSIP data through, I think you need to do a rescan and then look for the channels. I did a re-scan last night and went through every found QAM and could not locate the OTA HD channels. Will try the STB menu thing and see what QAM it's tuned to.
One other question - shouldn't I still be able to see the channel in the active QAM list and tune it that way? The QAM channels where they used to be now don't show any signal - me very cornfused
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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flashcore
join:2007-01-23
Lutherville Timonium, MD
| reply to keyboards
I will have to try doing a rescan when I get home, but in the past I have NEVER been able to find any of the unencrypted OTA HD feeds, I can find the SD version of them tho. I was one of the first people to be setup out of the CO I am on and it has always been that way. I have never bitched to them about it tho because I have a OTA antenna on the roof to receive the broadcasts and a HD DVR. |
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afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| reply to keyboards
said by keyboards :I did a re-scan last night and went through every found QAM and could not locate the OTA HD channels. Will try the STB menu thing and see what QAM it's tuned to. One other question - shouldn't I still be able to see the channel in the active QAM list and tune it that way? The QAM channels where they used to be now don't show any signal - me very cornfused You might want to double check that you scroll to the start of the very long QAM channel list. This of course depends on how the firmware in the Sharp TV handles QAM which may be very different from the Samsung DTB-H260F. In the H260F, most of the mapped channels for DC: 4-1, 4-2, 5-1, 7-1, and so on are at the start of the list before the QAM channels starting at 55. The MPT station now shows up starting at 67-1, 67-2 with call letters. [There are 5 Maryland Public TV stations around the state all with the same programming. 67-1 tells me Verizon is getting the MPT feed from WMPB-DT in Baltimore].
However, the last time I tried it, which was a while back, the older Samsung SIR-T451 STB did not re-map any of the locals. The HD locals (and the SD sub-channels) were at QAM 71 to 74. I chalked that up to older firmware in the T451 that did not look for or properly handle PSIP data for QAM channels. I'll do another scan with the T451 to see if that has changed.
A review of the manual is probably a good idea. 
BTW, last night's scan turned up a total of 5 or 6 more sub-channels that I had last late week (after Discovery-HD and CSN MS HD was added). What and where they are I have no idea. It may be time to do another detailed QAM review to see if more QAM channels have been added or where the heck the sub-channels are. Verizon really needs to send out an announcement about what SD and HD channels they have added. |
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andrewRedHil
join:2006-02-14
Red Hill, PA | the new channels in the clear QAM may be the PEG channels for the different LFA's. These would be SD only, and would show up on your channel map also, if you don't watch PEG's you may not see the new ones. |
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HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA | I have done a number of scans and still do not get the QAM's. I spoke with a Verizon engineer last night and got nowhere. As I said in my prior post, no problem with Comcast QAM's on either of my Sharp sets. |
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knarf829
join:2007-06-02 | Guess it's time to dig out / dust off and reassemble the old HTPC with QAM tuner card and see what I get. Hopefully the OP will get an answer from VZ direct soon and save me the trouble! |
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