Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| One little problem with the story
The practice annoys many users because it breaks core Internet functionality for many applications and tools... Has that actually been shown to be the case? It's been mentioned as a possibility several times, but no one here has yet to show a situation where that's actually happened. While I don't like the idea of the redirects, unless it causes actual real world problems, it's not the big deal people make it out to be since you can opt-out, though opt-in would be better. One area they may want to be wary of is that when you intentionally go to a search site like Google or Yahoo, most people know what comes back in the results may not be safe. But inexperienced users may think that since Verizon is giving them these results, they are automatically safe, which may not be the case. |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| said by Jodokast96  :The practice annoys many users because it breaks core Internet functionality for many applications and tools... Has that actually been shown to be the case? It's been mentioned as a possibility several times, but no one here has yet to show a situation where that's actually happened. While I don't like the idea of the redirects, unless it causes actual real world problems, it's not the big deal people make it out to be since you can opt-out, though opt-in would be better. One area they may want to be wary of is that when you intentionally go to a search site like Google or Yahoo, most people know what comes back in the results may not be safe. But inexperienced users may think that since Verizon is giving them these results, they are automatically safe, which may not be the case. I don't think you've been reading very closely. Any mistyped host (using one of these bogus nameservers) with a protocol like ftp, ssh, etc, will result in an RST and a closed connection instead of the appropriate timeout, indicating to the user that they are not using the correct host. Instead, they believe the service on the far host is unavailable. This screws up a lot of things.
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? |
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jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Jodokast96
It causes problems with email delivery if a user sends a message to a domain that doesn't exist. This is because the email server thinks the domain exists since it got a response instead of an NXDOMAIN response. Even with no MX records configured, mail servers are supposed to use the results from the A record query to deliver the email. See RFC2821.
This can be worked around by setting up a mail server that immediately rejects all mail, but then the user gets an error message that doesn't make sense for their situation. It would say that the user doesn't exist when in reality the domain doesn't exist. Only if the person scrolled down to see the SMTP transaction details would they realize their mistake.
I don't have time to go into the full details right now, and the exact problems depend on how this wildcard DNS redirection crap is set up. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to Cabal
Yes, I have. People have said what it might do, but no one has actually shown an actual case of it causing a problem. I'm not saying it doesn't, but nothing brought up has been a real world specific example of it causing something to not work. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to Cabal
I understand your argument, but still don't necessarily agree that it really "screws up things". If I mistype a URL, I'm not going to get what I wanted, redirection or not. So the end result has not change...I don't have what I want. Where it makes a difference is the "error handling" of the mistyped url. Without the redirection, it's a little quicker to identified a mistyped url. But if I try to go to Googlec.om and get sent to Verizon, I think I might notice. |
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kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY
1 edit | reply to jimk
said by jimk :It causes problems with email delivery if a user sends a message to a domain that doesn't exist. This is because the email server thinks the domain exists since it got a response instead of an NXDOMAIN response. Even with no MX records configured, mail servers are supposed to use the results from the A record query to deliver the email. See RFC2821. That was a problem with Verisign's Sitefinder. All of the products that I've seen for ISP's use ignore MX queries, and allow the NXDOMAIN to pass to the end-user. In fact it's common for these DNS redirects to kick in only when the original query begins with 'www.' (and sometimes 'ww.' or 'ww*w.' This mitigates may of the false A records for SSH, ftp, telnet, et. al. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | So in other words, it seems they have actually addressed whatever negative effects there may be for things other than browsers? |
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jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to kontos
If that is in fact the case, then it would eliminate a lot of the concerns. Not all of them because they are still messing with basic functionality that doesn't need to be messed with.
The behavior is still annoying, though, as it is yet another way for someone to cram more ads and crap into our faces. |
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