Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19454703 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:53:47 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:53:47 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19486531 JoeOnSunset :
said by Doctor Four See Profile :

Precisely why I have him on ignore.
Me too, but, I wish ignore worked for autoquotes too. That would be like noise-cancelling headphones for BBR. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19486531 Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:11:07 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19465236 DSL Oberst : Eh? Those players are the customers? I've never seen it that way; we members of John Q Public are ultimately irrelevant except as cannon fodder on the field of battle. This can best be characterized as a struggle between corporate interests, government law and hegemony, and some few free-wheeling anarchist power groups.

Aside fom all that, most customers of the ISPs are NOT using their broadband for downloads - the main players are corporations using the fat pipes and the average consumer who sends maybe an email or two a day and looks at webpages. Downloading is limited to the narrowly specialized geek population (like what tends to infest the forums here).

AT&T's big issue in it is what they have invested in the media companies. It's rather like what one of my former companies was to Mitsubishi (and by extension, Mitsubishi Bank). Even though the controlling interest of the chain was 4 ladders up, what Mitsubishi wanted my company ended up doing. Look to see who has the big controlling interests in each company and you can follow the money from there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19465236 Sun, 18 Nov 2007 03:15:32 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19464512 NormanS :
said by lordjim See Profile :

Besides, AT&T was never my broadband provider of choice anyway. I was an original @Home customer for years, until @Home folded and AT&T took over and screwed me out of my 4 mbit/sec symmetric connection, and shoveled 1.5 mbit / 25 kbps in my face instead. Then they had the cojones to raise my rates! And now that SBC took them over...
You skipped a takeover, or three. While ATTBI did take over @Home, ATTBI was also a spin-off from AT&T. Ultimately, Comcast took over ATTBI. And all of that happened well before SBC took over AT&T.
I'm even less likely to ever have AT&T/SBC as my ISP. I'd rather move to another area than be dependent upon those bloodsuckers.
Actually, if you have 'at&t Yahoo! HSI' as your provider (they stopped calling themselves SBC in 2006), you have generally have a number of alternatives, including DSL Extreme and Speakeasy. While AT&T owns the copper to the premises, DSL Extreme and Speakeasy have their own ATM networks from the DSLAM to the Internet, so your service would never touch the ATTIS IP network.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19464512 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:40:14 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19461214 lordjim : I wonder: does a Telco/Cable/Megacorp shill make a sound if no one is listening to them?



He does when the proverbial tree falls on him. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19461214 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:30:46 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19461203 lordjim : Ah yes ... but you also have to consider that those players are also customers. So it's not so simple: AT&T may control a good chunk of the backbone, but customers control their pocketbooks. That changes things too ... because many of those customers can only justify the cost of broadband as a means to download large files (legit or not.) If AT&T is going to seriously try to prevent that, hopefully the studios will be willing to cough up a share of their profits to make up for all the customers AT&T will lose. If I was still an AT&T Broadband customer they'd lose me for sure. AT&T may actually try playing network cop, but when the screaming starts they will probably quietly drop it. Personally, I don't see what they get out of it ... do the media companies have that much pull in the AT&T boardroom? What are they offering AT&T in exchange for this? Gratitude?


Besides, AT&T was never my broadband provider of choice anyway. I was an original @Home customer for years, until @Home folded and AT&T took over and screwed me out of my 4 mbit/sec symmetric connection, and shoveled 1.5 mbit / 25 kbps in my face instead. Then they had the cojones to raise my rates! And now that SBC took them over, I'm even less likely to ever have AT&T/SBC as my ISP. I'd rather move to another area than be dependent upon those bloodsuckers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19461203 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:27:28 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460472 DSL Oberst :
said by Doctor Four See Profile :

If this cat and mouse game (or arms race if you prefer
to call it that) continues, the logical conclusion is
that there is going to be a p2p protocol that is so
obfuscated/encrypted, etc. that it is going to be cost
prohibitive to implement any piracy filter to stop it.
Eh, it depends.
The problem with any arms race is who controls the medium the arms race takes place in.
With nuclear weapons back in the Cold War, you had two main players (and assorted allies), but no one person owned the playing field. Therefore, MAD was possible to maintain.
In the field of copyright infringement, regardless of whether you consder it right or wrong, the ability to own the backbone changes things. Playing strategy games are fine, but if you're the guy that owns the playing board and you can flip ALL the pieces off and take the game home...well, that sort of trumps anyone playing the game. If you're one of the players AND you can do that, the game can radically become unfavorable to the opponent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460472 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:39:14 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460393 jjeffeory : Well, you're paying more at the theatre because the movie studios want you to pay more and they can get away with it. They simply use "pirate movies" as an excuse to deflect some of the criticism. I'm not for pirating movies. I do think it is okay to move a copy around from your home computer to your work computer. I think that's fair use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460393 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:45:38 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460387 jjeffeory : I think it will anger the software pirates even more.
Of course, the people who are legally moving their movies from one computer to another while they're away for work will be thrilled by this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460387 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:41:16 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460003 Thaler :
said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

Why should i have to pay more at the theater when going to watch a movie because some stupid ass is stealing it at home and i have to make up for the lost profit that is actually deserved.
Wait...you believe movie ticket prices are such because of piracy?

...I think I have a bridge avaliable for sale. You interested?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19460003 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:01:11 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19459227 hottboiinnc : I don't work for any phone, cable or ISP and i think this will be good. Why should i have to pay more at the theater when going to watch a movie because some stupid ass is stealing it at home and i have to make up for the lost profit that is actually deserved.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19459227 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:54:47 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19458851 redshift : What about .ae? Aren'they also blocking all forms of VOIP? You're one to talk!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19458851 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:45:31 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19458078 NormanS :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

If the ISPs are allowed to start filtering traffic for content, we will never have safe or reliable internet communications.
I expect that filtering on the basis of propriety of the content would, and should be a problem (banning porn, then what comes next). Is filtering on the basis of legitimacy of the right to distribute the same thing?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19458078 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:14:49 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19457547 wolfox : I theorize it is simply that when a file is compressed, the data making up that file no longer matches a signature in the blocking device database. Adding a password to your compressed file further hashes the data into obscurity. I would think that characteristic watermarking of copyrighted works embedded into the video frames has a unique signature that can be quantified and checked quickly. It's all for naught however if that watermark data along with all of the other digital frame data making up a single let alone all of the frames in a film are digitally "scrambled" or skewed just enough off center via compression.

Was that a run on sentence?
--
The RIAA killed my legal webcast. Sadly it will never be mourned...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19457547 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:44:45 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19457341 Diaboyos :
said by hopeflicker See Profile :

said by justaguy :

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.

And just to reiterate the point.

How will this system work if someone encrypts their data?
I dont even think encryption is needed. Just a simple Zip/rar file is all.
Is deep packet inspection not able to see inside compressed files? Or is it the breaking it up into chunks that it can't tell what it would be when it's recombined?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19457341 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:23:07 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19456374 anon : Hmm sounds like .ir .sa .af .iq .pk .sy .ly .sd .kp

Aren't we trying to defend ourselves from these guys ?

They seem to be winning, instead of us showing them the benefits that Democracy offers, we are 'becoming' them! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19456374 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:45:14 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19456452 NormanS : Is 'lmco.com' really your provider?

»bgp.potaroo.net/cgi-bin/as-report?as=AS6075

Says that your provider buys transit from AT&T Worldnet Services.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19456452 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:09:06 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455998 Doctor Four :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

What planet are you from where you think this system has a chance in hell of working? Hell, just rar up the files and it won't find anything.
The planet of denial.

There hasn't been a single anti-piracy technology that
has yet to be defeated. Even Sandvine has been bypassed.

If this cat and mouse game (or arms race if you prefer
to call it that) continues, the logical conclusion is
that there is going to be a p2p protocol that is so
obfuscated/encrypted, etc. that it is going to be cost
prohibitive to implement any piracy filter to stop it.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455998 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:09:12 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455858 viperlmw : Welcome!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455858 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:48:51 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455817 bigjimc : Sounds like .cn to me... (China)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455817 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:40:47 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455490 boober321 :
said by Thaler See Profile :

Sorry, the new AT&T "feature" just screams of potential legit foul-ups, not to mention the slippery slope of ISP content filtering.
No kidding. Just wait for when they filter out competing video sources and label them as "piracy."
I don't understand the whole rationale behind the opposition of net neutrality. By god these turds would cry like a stuck pig if anti-abortion, Christian and NRA websites got filtered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455490 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:47:07 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455291 WrzWrz : "The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality"

No, the movie thieves will just begin putting their stolen movies into encrypted modules such as encrypted RAR archives which will bypass this foolish technology altogether. :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455291 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:17:09 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455233 Doctor Four :
said by hopeflicker See Profile :

nice flame bait, HCT
Precisely why I have him on ignore.

I wonder: does a Telco/Cable/Megacorp shill make a
sound if no one is listening to them?
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455233 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:06:38 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455174 swhx7 : If the ISPs are allowed to start filtering traffic for content, we will never have safe or reliable internet communications. It will start with alleged copyright infringement, then more categories will be added - alleged defamation, alleged exposure of trade secrets, alleged trademark violations, alleged illegal pornography, alleged terrorism-related material, etc..

And because this is a corporation, there will be no due process, no recourse for mistakes, no compensation for victims of false positives, no oversight.

Is this the proper role of an ISP? I say no, their job should be only to deliver the traffic as well as possible. Responsibility for content should be a separate issue handled by the appropriate process of complaints, suits and takedowns.

Edit to add missing words]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455174 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:56:50 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455142 hopeflicker :
said by justaguy :

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.

And just to reiterate the point.

How will this system work if someone encrypts their data?
I dont even think encryption is needed. Just a simple Zip/rar file is all.
--
People pray to God because they're told to.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455142 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:51:46 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455098 thevorpal : Aside: finally registered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455098 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:42:49 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455076 anon : If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.

And just to reiterate the point.

How will this system work if someone encrypts their data?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455076 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:38:48 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455050 anon : Hi,

I download videos regularly, none of which are in violation of any copyrights. I will not patronize any company that even considers trying to censor my own informational interests.

You claim that if this system works that it will put a dent in copyright infringements. I say that you don't understand that this system is so easily bypassed that it won't even cause a blip on the radar the size of a honeybee.

AT&T is doing this because it shows that they are 'trying' in the end, it is a waste of money that will result higher prices for their customers.

Of course, aside from a letter that I am drafting explaining why I won't ever become an AT&T subscriber, I don't have any services to cancel.

When it comes to IP, I respect it. Yet I will not patronize a company that has practices like AT&T.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19455050 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:34:24 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454983 P Ness :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

This will just inflame all those stealing movies and get them shouting about network neutrality. Like it is some inalienable right to get movies without paying for them.

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.
Yes because companies are well known for stopping at just one thing that ends up saving them tons of money.

next you will see them filtering stuff from google because they want you to use their search tool, and then CNN because they are partners with FOX, on and on and on.....

great trend to support
--
www.stopfcc.com I do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454983 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:19:51 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454906 Thaler :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.
Because we all know, historically, that pirates have been deterred by anti-piracy measures. :uhh:

Sorry, the new AT&T "feature" just screams of potential legit foul-ups, not to mention the slippery slope of ISP content filtering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454906 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:04:04 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454776 openbox9 : No need for proof when you've got some copyright infringers flat out bragging about their actions. I haven't seen any corporate shills seriously admit to their actions, but I'm willing to bet that's because there aren't any here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454776 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:32:16 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454773 hopeflicker :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

This will just inflame all those stealing movies and get them shouting about network neutrality. Like it is some inalienable right to get movies without paying for them.

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.
nice flame bait, HCT
--
People pray to God because they're told to.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454773 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:31:23 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454743 axus : Nah this forum would be boring without a paid representative of the "other side". As long as they don't click on your links, no harm done

It makes the board more fun, when people accuse each other of copyright infringement and shilling, nothing is provable of course.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454743 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:24:44 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454703 TKJunkMail :
said by mpelle4456 See Profile :

said by karlmarx See Profile :

What planet are you from where you think this system has a chance in hell of working? Hell, just rar up the files and it won't find anything.
It's simple - he works for Comcast. They PAY him to post these gems of wisdom (that tout the company line).
Wrong again. Don't you shills for copyright infringement ever grow weary of accusing anyone whose for honesty as an employee of the ISPs??
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454703 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:16:23 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454685 mpelle4456 :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

What planet are you from where you think this system has a chance in hell of working? Hell, just rar up the files and it won't find anything.
It's simple - he works for Comcast. They PAY him to post these gems of wisdom (that tout the company line).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454685 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:12:46 EDT Re: The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454632 karlmarx : Of COURSE they will. It's not the providers RIGHT to monitor what you use the internet for. If you choose to go to www.barely18.com, that's your RIGHT. If I choose to stream data from a remote site to my computer, that's MY right.

What planet are you from where you think this system has a chance in hell of working? Hell, just rar up the files and it won't find anything.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454632 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:01:17 EDT The movie thieves will scream Net Neutrality http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454597 TKJunkMail : This will just inflame all those stealing movies and get them shouting about network neutrality. Like it is some inalienable right to get movies without paying for them.

If the system actually works, it will put a dent in the practice of stealing movies - especially if other ISPs follow suit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19454597 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:54:54 EDT