GOLFnSUN
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|  Schools should be penalized for ignoring piracy
Schools that ignore rampant piracy thru their school's computer networks should be penalized. They have the ability to firewall their systems(just like any corporation does). And failure to do so should be taken in to account when gov't funding is handed out. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY | The same can be said of ISP's. |
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Done_Posting
Shoot to kill
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said by GOLFnSUN  :Schools that ignore rampant piracy thru their school's computer networks should be penalized. They have the ability to firewall their systems(just like any corporation does). And failure to do so should be taken in to account when gov't funding is handed out. I completely disagree. Schools, and ISP's for that matter, have no business policing the traffic that passes through their networks any more than makers of alcohol have a responsibility to ensure that no one that consumes their products proceeds to climb behind the steering wheel of a car afterwards. That's what law enforcement is for, plain and simple.
Further, I take issue with how you trivialize the process involved in tracking P2P offenders; just because an institution has a firewall doesn't mean the activities of their users are trackable in any easy way. In my experience, a great deal of effort has to be made when reacting to DMCA complaints. The original complaint has to be documented, and responded to. The DHCP logs have to be searched for a user corresponding to the dates the supposed infringement took place. The user has to be contacted. The original complainant has to be notified that you have warned the supposed infringer. This cycle goes on and on endlessly, and is why larger ISP's now have entire departments dedicated to nothing but responding to DMCA complaints. Schools would have to expand their IT departments, and who is going to pay for that? Why should the honest students be forced to subsidize DMCA investigations when they're already (over)paying ridiculous tuition costs?
We have law enforcement agencies for a reason.
- Tate
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mikenolan7
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1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
While they are at it, how about raiding the dorm rooms of students suspected of the underage consumption of alcohol. Let's start requiring drug tests before enrollment, since that's what corporations do. And better start locking up those evildoers that kidnap the opponent's mascot before the homecoming game. Hey, textbooks are copyrighted aren't they? We better stop any of those BAD kids from giving their textbook to a friend who has the class next semester. In fact, let's Deputize all of the prof's, and any student suspected of peeking at another students paper during an exam could be hauled away to do 10-20, like they deserve. THEY ARE OUR GODDAMN CHILDREN, AND OUR FUTURE. THEY ARE KIDS!! They make the wrong choice more often than even adults, which is sometimes hard to believe.
No, this law is even better, we will punish ALL of the little creeps, not just the ones who have committed the heinous crime of letting a friend listen to music they enjoy. I guess you never went to college, because if you did you would remember that we all recorded our vinyl onto cassettes and shared them. Otherwise I would have listened to the same 10 albums for four years. I lived on $25 spending money, per week, for 4 years. That included groceries. My first two years I earned that money by being a night watchman in a woman's dorm, one night a week from midnight till 7 AM, and one night a week from midnight till 3 AM. Then I went to class the next day. My last two years I earned that money by grading homework, sometimes for classes I was currently taking. Give these kids a break!
This is, without a doubt, the stupidest, greediest, most short-sighted bill that I have ever heard of, in my life. And they have the unmitigated gall of calling it the "College Opportunity and Affordability Act of 2007".
"Such an extraordinarily inappropriate and punitive outcome would result in all students on that campus losing their federal financial aid--including Pell grants and student loans that are essential to their ability to attend college, advance their education, and acquire the skills necessary to compete in the 21st-century economy," a letter from university officials to Congress written on Wednesday said. "Lower-income students, those most in need of federal financial aid, would be harmed most under the entertainment industry's proposal."
The letter was signed by the chancellor of the University of Maryland system, the president of Stanford University, the general counsel of Yale University, and the president of Penn State. |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26 | reply to GOLFnSUN
You're right! They should just hire a person to sit and watch each and every person that uses the internet to make sure he is not pirating music!(sarcasm)
It is not the Universities job to fight the RIAA's battles. |
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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | reply to mikenolan7
furthermore it might not even be legal..
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_freedom |
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GOLFnSUN
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| Academic freedom is all about free speech. It isn't about stealing music or videos.
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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | please go back and read the first line |
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GOLFnSUN
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| said by backness :please go back and read the first line Here is the 1st line, and I read it the 1st time:
Academic Freedom is the freedom of teachers, students, and academic institutions to pursue knowledge wherever it may lead, without undue or unreasonable interference. Stopping copyright infringement(stealing) isn't undue or unreasonable interference.
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
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Salem, OR
1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
Actually, most universities and colleges do have firewalls in place. I know mine does. Still, it is not the responsibility of the colleges to play traffic cops with the students on their network. On top of that they don't have the resources to even do so. At best, they have the resources to do passive enforcement of their network and it's the best way to do it given that there may be thousands of students on the network at any given time.
All this does is burden the students more with higher costs because they are the ones who will be paying for the extra resources the public universities and colleges will be forced to do when they have to monitor every student that access their network and watch everything that they do.
Oh, and comparing corporations to non-profit organizations, as most public colleges and universities are, is like comparing apples to oranges. |
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mikenolan7
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Bye HCT. I shouldn't have shot my mouth off, because I wouldn't harass anyone here. That would be as stupid as this bill, punish everyone for the acts of a few (or one). You really don't matter, anyway. What I will do is write a more level-headed letter, to the House Majority Leader, and figure out how to give anyone here that wants to an opportunity to sign it. That, at least, may help. I will now help my own blood pressure by putting you on ignore. |
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backness
join:2005-07-08
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1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
ok... not bad.. half way there...
now read about the bill
»www.news.com/Democrats-Colleges-···ubj=news
.... and tell me... Do RIAA/MPAA approved boxes have the potential to interfere with legitimate content or could it be considerer "undue or unreasonable interference"?
edit:speelin and punctuation |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :Schools that ignore rampant piracy thru their school's computer networks should be penalized. I tend to agree. Let's face it, universities have tended to be the biggest facilitators of IPR theft. The orignal Napster was practically synonymous with "dorm room dweller".
When a significant portion of a university's computing resources (like about 40-50%) are consumed by illegal activities, a university can't simply say, "we didn't know, and even if we did it's not our problem". Now I'm not saying they should be liable for every single act by a student, but at the current level, it clearly qualifies as gross negligence on their part. And if you're negligent long enough, the "chickens will eventually come home to roost", and the Power That Be will step in and stop you from continuing.
It's not just music. Universities routinely disregard the IPR rights of others. I know anonymous college ftp sites, that contain complete texts of industry standards and other documents; documents one normally must pay >$100 per copy to obtain legitimately. But some "information must be free" ivory tower type thinks it's OK to just make them available for free, worldwide download.
Of course, it doesn't work the other way around. Colleges more and more are filing patents on every little invention their research uncovers. And they're quick to sue any infringer who doesn't pay up. When it comes to their own IPR, what's good for the goose is most definitely not good for the gander. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to mikenolan7
said by mikenolan7 :not just the ones who have committed the heinous crime of letting a friend listen to music they enjoy. I know you're not that stupid. NO ONE, even the RIAA, gives a rat's arse about some kid "letting a friend" listen to music. As a matter of fact, the RIAA members have always loved this type of "viral marketing".
But you know full well that's not happening. It's not "letting a friend" listen to music. It's letting 4 or 5 billion "friends" listen to it, by publishing it for free, worldwide distribution on the internet. It's about completely reducing the market value of an artist's creation to zero, by effectively eliminating the market. In other words, this is something completely different from giving 2-3 friends copies of a cassette. |
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GOLFnSUN
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said by PDXPLT :Of course, it doesn't work the other way around. Colleges more and more are filing patents on every little invention their research uncovers. And they're quick to sue any infringer who doesn't pay up. When it comes to their own IPR, what's good for the goose is most definitely not good for the gander. Good point. They make money on IPR, but don't think others should have the same rights.
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
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said by mikenolan7 :Hey, textbooks are copyrighted aren't they? We better stop any of those BAD kids from giving their textbook to a friend who has the class next semester. Sorry. That action falls under the "Right of First Sale" doctrine. IOW: Once I buy it, I can give the book away or sell it. The copyright only says I can not use a copying machine to create another copy and then give the copy to the friend (or give the book to the friend while I keep the copy). |
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TamaraB
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said by mikenolan7 :.... This is, without a doubt, the stupidest, greediest, most short-sighted bill that I have ever heard of, in my life. And they have the unmitigated gall of calling it the "College Opportunity and Affordability Act of 2007".... It is rule #10. Welcome to Amerika, land of the Ferengi!
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said by mikenolan7 :Bye HCT. [snipped post text] I will now help my own blood pressure by putting you on ignore. Joining Broadband Reports: Free
Cost of going Premium on BBR: $10 or 10 Tool Points
Being able to ignore posts from anonymous trolls and
cable/telco/megacorp shills: Priceless
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mikenolan7
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No university would allow 40-50% of their traffic to be taken up by pirates, because they can afford it far less than the telcos can. They have to budget every penny. If it was taking up a significant chunk of their bandwidth, they would police it themselves. I know this because I spent 6 years on the Industrial Professional Advisory Committee for the Aerospace Engineering Department at Penn St. I traveled from LA to Penn St. twice a year to spend two days helping the department improve the curriculum to better support industry. My company paid for my travel, and paid my full salary while I was there. There were 7 other executives and professors on that board that flew/drove in from around the country to do the same, and every Engineering Department at Penn St. has such a board.
On the night between the two days of meetings I taught a one night seminar on satellite design, and stayed and answered questions from students about what career opportunities were out there. Since it was in the evening, the department always made sure there were pizzas there for all of the students, a few prof's that usually came, and me. This is relevant because in one of our reviews I saw the price of those pizzas detailed out in the departments budget for the next year. That is how close universities have to watch their money. It took a 15 minute argument with the Department Head before he would allow me to bill the pizzas back to my employer, a drop in the bucket in my travel expense, that I wouldn't even have to itemize. No, I don't think that 40-50% of their bandwidth is being used by pirates, and that the universities know it.
Did my employer pay for this out of the kindness of their hearts? No, we lived and died by the quality of our recruits. I got input to the curriculum to stress areas we felt were lacking in the recruits. I got to know the students from the time they were Freshmen, instead of for a 30 minute interview during their senior year. And I was able to get candid recommendations from the professors when we were on the fence about hiring one. The students got free pizza, a view of how big aerospace companies worked, and help figuring out what they wanted to do when they graduated (probably listed in order of importance to them). It was a win/win situation for all involved, which the RIAA and MPAA could certainly learn a lesson from. Any effective negotiator seeks to find a win/win situation for all involved. Only fools think that they can "win" by making the other party lose. It might work once, maybe even twice, but pretty soon they will find themselves negotiating with themselves.
And I don't care if 99 out of every 100 students work for TPB. How dare you jeopardize the right of that 100th student to an education! That 100th student may go on to become a doctor, and save your life some day. I like my chances even better with all 100 getting an education.
That's where I get my facts from. Your 40-50% number smells like it came from somewhere else. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to RARPSL
said by RARPSL :said by mikenolan7 :Hey, textbooks are copyrighted aren't they? We better stop any of those BAD kids from giving their textbook to a friend who has the class next semester. Sorry. That action falls under the "Right of First Sale" doctrine. IOW: Once I buy it, I can give the book away or sell it. The copyright only says I can not use a copying machine to create another copy and then give the copy to the friend (or give the book to the friend while I keep the copy). Well we can go back to loaned/rented books.  Or I can make you sign a contract. Are you going to pay lawyers to sue me to try to break that contract (even tho it might be illegal)? "We insure textbook quality for students by giving them the latest each year". |
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