Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Onrevver
Re: Sympatico throttling Bit Torrents now??? said by Onrevver : quote:
Those things you suggest aren't cheap for the good providers. and could end up costing people an addition $50 or more a month for the same thing they can just download for free now.. I know it's not right they download it for free, but do you seriously expect everyone to pay an extra $50 when you can get it for free someplace else?
It costs $14.95 a month for unlimited newshosting.com service and $4 for 16 weeks of Newzbin service. That's $18.95 a month. If you go over your cap, Sympatico starts gouging to a maximum tune of $30.00. With the former you get uncapped speeds since your ISP can't effectively throttle it. With the latter you tolerate 30KB/s downloads with BitTorrent when you're paying for a 3M+ connection. $18.95 for unlimited do whatever you want with your Sympatico connection -OR- $30.00 when you go over your bandwidth allowance AND your BT downloads are always metered to 30KB/s regardless of where your usage is at for that month. Think about it. I don't know where you pulled $50 from but don't believe that the whole of Usenet uses the same rates as Easynews.com or something. News groups will be next on the list after everyone stops using torrents and goes to newsgroups.  |
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| I tried news groups for a month, and had a real hard time to find what I am looking for, and it's so messy, very hard to browse and search. But maybe you are right news groups would be next.
You guys go on »torrentfreak.com/ ??? I go every mornings and it seems like there's a global anti-piracy war happening.
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Q:WHAT'S BLUE AND WHITE AND LIVES IN THE BASEMENT??
A:Losers Even After Forty Seasons |
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| reply to DjEclipse
quote:
News groups will be next on the list after everyone stops using torrents and goes to newsgroups.
You can't effectively throttle NNTP the same way that BT is done, most NNTP providers support full SSL. Even if they were able to do so, NNTP is much more easily adapted to changing as it's a fairly simple protocol thats very similar to HTTP unlike BitTorrent. Usenet is also frequently outsourced to many of these NNTP providers so filtering/shaping will affect legitimate customers. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by Onrevver : quote:
News groups will be next on the list after everyone stops using torrents and goes to newsgroups.
You can't effectively throttle NNTP the same way that BT is done, most NNTP providers support full SSL. Even if they were able to do so, NNTP is much more easily adapted to changing as it's a fairly simple protocol thats very similar to HTTP unlike BitTorrent. Usenet is also frequently outsourced to many of these NNTP providers so filtering/shaping will affect legitimate customers. The torrent throtteling IS affecting legitimate customers!
Are you trying to say that everyone that uses torrents is not using it for legit reasons? My WOW updates are not a legit reason for using torrents?
This also really pisses me off when people assume that Bit torrents are only for "illegal" downloads, there fore it's fine to limit download speed. |
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| I know people are ignorant when it comes down to that subject. Out of my 400gb bw usage of last month I don't even have 1 movie, I have a few mp3s and a few tv shows. All the rest is legit.
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Q:WHAT'S BLUE AND WHITE AND LIVES IN THE BASEMENT??
A:Losers Even After Forty Seasons |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
1 edit | said by TI POIL:I know people are ignorant when it comes down to that subject. Out of my 400gb bw usage of last month I don't even have 1 movie, I have a few mp3s and a few tv shows. All the rest is legit. I hear ya.
But as far as I'm concerned TV shows are legit as it's the same as DVR. If someone already paid to be able to watch them, if that person missed a show and the DVR didn't catch it, it is their right to be able to watch the show that they already have paid a service to watch. |
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| reply to DjEclipse
quote:
I tried news groups for a month, and had a real hard time to find what I am looking for, and it's so messy, very hard to browse and search. But maybe you are right news groups would be next.
You need an indexer like Newzbin and a good client like SABnzbd. Then it becomes a point and click affair like BitTorrent.
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The torrent throtteling IS affecting legitimate customers!
Are you trying to say that everyone that uses torrents is not using it for legit reasons? My WOW updates are not a legit reason for using torrents?
This also really pisses me off when people assume that Bit torrents are only for "illegal" downloads, there fore it's fine to limit download speed.
There are more emerging uses for BitTorrent these days like patch distribution, video P2P networks and so on. However the fact remains that most of the BT traffic is copyrighted material. I am not saying it's fine to limit download speeds, I am saying quite the opposite and its why I cancelled my Sympatico service.
You are deluding yourself if you think that these companies are governed by the same "innocent until proven guilty" system used by the courts. They can pretty much do what they like until complaints reach the press. Speak with your wallet, your complaints on these forums fall on deaf ears.
Also stop pretending like you were just downloading Linux ISO's with BT. Most of us at least wont pretend like we paid $40+ monthly to download "WoW Patches faster". Unlike you, my point is that what I do with my connection is none of their business provided I am within their bandwidth constraints. There should be no automatic shaping of a particular protocol on the Internet. |
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| reply to DjEclipse
quote:
But as far as I'm concerned TV shows are legit as it;s the same as DVR. I've already paid to be able to watch them, if I missed a show and the DVR didn't catch it, it is my right to be able to watch the show that I already ahve paid a service to watch.
Morally I agree with you, legally you are wrong. Companies are sold a license to broadcast that content, you pay a monthly fee to watch it. You are not entitled ownership to anything on the air and the broadcaster's contract defines what that entails. Watching anything ad-free violates 99.9% of those contracts unless they are specifically created for that purpose(BSG webisodes, etc).
So while we may think it's fine and dandy, in their eyes its wrong. |
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| Is it our fault then that they do not provide legal downloads of shows like they do in the US? Also you can watch most shows on the Canadian networks websites. But I prefer to burn mine to re-recordable dvds and throw it in my divx capable dvd player and play them there. I dont really want to sit at my computer to watch a show that I missed. But we're getting off topic now. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Onrevver
said by Onrevver : quote:
But as far as I'm concerned TV shows are legit as it;s the same as DVR. I've already paid to be able to watch them, if I missed a show and the DVR didn't catch it, it is my right to be able to watch the show that I already ahve paid a service to watch.
Morally I agree with you, legally you are wrong. Companies are sold a license to broadcast that content, you pay a monthly fee to watch it. You are not entitled ownership to anything on the air and the broadcaster's contract defines what that entails. Watching anything ad-free violates 99.9% of those contracts unless they are specifically created for that purpose(BSG webisodes, etc). So while we may think it's fine and dandy, in their eyes its wrong. So it's wrong to DVR a tv show and watch it then? You get the same commercial free DV as if you were todownload it.
And if the companies were more creative the commercial will reach more people then if it were on a TV show. If it's good it will be viewed by millions via places like Youtube etc. |
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| quote:
So it's wrong to DVR a tv show and watch it then? You get the same commercial free DV as if you were todownload it.
Morally wrong, not in my opinion. Legally wrong as in it violates copyright laws, yes. Also most DVR's provided by the cable/telco companies I've seen will only let you skip commercials, they won't record shows without them. In America at least the government tried to intervene by forcing companies to support CableCARD. In Canada the CRTC is woefully behind the times.
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And if the companies were more creative the commercial will reach more people then if it were on a TV show. If it's good it will be viewed by millions via places like Youtube etc.
Not if the commercial is stripped out. They have to make money to keep shows on the air period.
The difference between me and you is that I can admit my wrongdoing in my actions and I dont try to justify it. I am fine with pirating TV because I feel commercials should be optional and that the industry needs to find a new revenue model. If they don't then they will soon find themselves going the same way as the music industry.
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Is it our fault then that they do not provide legal downloads of shows like they do in the US? Also you can watch most shows on the Canadian networks websites. But I prefer to burn mine to re-recordable dvds and throw it in my divx capable dvd player and play them there. I dont really want to sit at my computer to watch a show that I missed. But we're getting off topic now.
It's no ones fault. I pirate TV just like the rest of you do. I do it for a variety of reasons but the industry needs to wake up and recognize that some of them are legit(convenience, scheduling, etc). My point is that the telco's see us as copyright infringers who are breaking the law, we don't deserve extra consideration in their eyes. So they don't care about shaping BT nor do they care about our concerns on this forum. Your best way to let them know you feel is to hit them where they do listen - the wallet! |
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I still don't understand why BT don't change their protocol.
It's a very complex protocol and it would require all client/tracker developers to adopt it. It's a massive undertaking. They are better off taking more time and making BT a "guerilla" protocol where it masquerades as much as possible as other traffic to confuse traffic shapers and affect more customers so there is more of a public outcry about shaping in general. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Onrevver
said by Onrevver :
... the industry needs to find a new revenue model. If they don't then they will soon find themselves going the same way as the music industry.
They have already done this in TV and also in Movies. Product placement is a huge form of advertising and is used everywhere. Even on reality shows, if someone is wearing a shirt or hat showing the logo of a company that isn't a sponsor it is blurred out. The last season of the sopranos was a great big commercial with advertisers as big as Porsche. Product placement is all over the place which means advertising is already in the TV shows and movies we watch, no matter how we end up watching them. |
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They have already done this in TV and also in Movies. Product placement is a huge form of advertising and is used everywhere. Even on reality shows, if someone is wearing a shirt or hat showing the logo of a company that isn't a sponsor it is blurred out. The last season of the sopranos was a great big commercial with advertisers as big as Porsche. Product placement is all over the place which means advertising is already in the TV shows and movies we watch, no matter how we end up watching them.
Product placement is for brand building and is considered the lowest form of advertising by those in the advertising industry. The rates paid for it aren't generous and they represent a very small portion of the yearly ad-buys for TV networks. It's not a replacement revenue model, its a complement model at best to enhance existing profits. |
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| reply to theninjasqua
said by theninjasqua:I dont really want to sit at my computer to watch a show that I missed. But you don't have to. See isn't piracy great!
The content providers have to understand that, like it or not, they are competing with high-quality, instant, unrestricted and free versions of the stuff they create. Hoping for the morals of the technical masses or attempting to instill fear through lawsuits in order to float a failing business model is clearly not the way to compete. |
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| reply to Onrevver
The Pirate Bay are developing a new client which a lot of torrent sites are going to adapt. I don't know much about it, but it will have the .p2p file extension. I think it is going to work similar to torrents, but will be more manageable and maybe even hard to block by ISP's. We shall see. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Onrevver
said by Onrevver : quote:
They have already done this in TV and also in Movies. Product placement is a huge form of advertising and is used everywhere. Even on reality shows, if someone is wearing a shirt or hat showing the logo of a company that isn't a sponsor it is blurred out. The last season of the sopranos was a great big commercial with advertisers as big as Porsche. Product placement is all over the place which means advertising is already in the TV shows and movies we watch, no matter how we end up watching them.
Product placement is for brand building and is considered the lowest form of advertising by those in the advertising industry. The rates paid for it aren't generous and they represent a very small portion of the yearly ad-buys for TV networks. It's not a replacement revenue model, its a complement model at best to enhance existing profits. Then why do you constantly see t-shirts and other logo's blocked out on all reality Tv shows? If it wasn't considered a good form of advertising then why go through all the trouble of blacking out items that aren't sponsor oriented? |
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Then why do you constantly see t-shirts and other logo's blocked out on all reality Tv shows? If it wasn't considered a good form of advertising then why go through all the trouble of blacking out items that aren't sponsor oriented?
It has nothing to do with "good", its about giving free versus non-free. They black it out because no one paid them and they are trying to maximize profits. Money makes the world go round. These figures are public, you can go look at the ad-buys yourself in any financial report using Google for some of the networks and their parent companies like GE. It's not a case of opinions, its hard numbers.
I am done with this derail now as it is serving no purpose, I would politely suggest researching your opinions in the future before posting them. |
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