sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to Rastan
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
Sorry, the move function didn't work quite as it was supposed to ... the daughter posts were supposed to go with the other post ... and now there's nothign I can do. For this subtopic, please can you respond to the new thread.
As to the existing topic, I think it's pretty well exhausted. |
|
Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada
 ·VBUZZER
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
I understand the risk from the customer's point of view but if a company such as Vonage starts losing thousands of customers as a direct result of bandwidth throttling, don't they have a case against Bell & Rogers?
They can easily be put out of business since their service will become unusable.
edit: My posts sort of hijack the thread. Can they be moved to the same thread you moved one of your replies to? |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 |  reply to Rastan
(topic move) How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuros
Moderator Action
The post that was here, has been moved to a new topic .. »What you can do about your ISP. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to Rastan
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
They are not "essential service providers" unlike the telcos ... in other words ... if you opt for voip, you take the risk on the quality of your service. |
|
Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada
·VBUZZER
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Ah, sorry I misunderstood. You're right, that is their mindset. The ISP's TOS might be enough to deter lawsuits from their customers but they are now interfering with voip and other services from companies that charge customers.
Since they are directly impacting the quality of these paid services I think that the companies who are being negatively impacted as a result of throttling have a legitimate case against Bell. What do you think their chances are if they sue Bell & Rogers? |
|
Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada
·VBUZZER
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
Those who say "if you don't like it that's too bad, there's nothing you can do", have a defeatist attitude. Write your M.P. and let them know that your ISP is abusing their position.
If you don't believe ISP's should act as a gatekeeper and make decisions for you then let them know that you support net neutrality. If enough people make this an election issue then perhaps something will be done.
A class action suit might work as well since Bell's throttling affects applications such as voip and online gaming. It would be nice if voip companies would sue Bell for tampering with their business. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to Dr BG
No, you have no recourse. My path, my rules. Don't like it, so sad, too bad.
I'm not saying that's fair ... it's the reality of the situation. All this griping in this forum isn't going to change things one bit. That's been shown many times with ISPs in the past. |
|
Dr BG
@bell.ca | reply to sbrook
You are endearingly fond of finishing your posts with an untenable metaphor. I love it.
If the ISP overpromised the width of the path to the beach, then my only recourse is to take a tackhammer and pound-out a nice, new concrete sidewalk. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to Dr BG
What you're missing is that it's NOT your decision, but rather the ISP's decision about what is done with their network.
Once they have established their connection, how you use their network is defined by them. "Our Network, Our Rules". It's not necessarily fair, but it's fact.
You use my path to get to the beach behind my house, I set the rules across my path. |
|
Dr BG
@bell.ca
| reply to sbrook
said by sbrook  :This then comes back down to a business purpose on a residential line. Don't misunderstand, I don't have a problem with people DOING this on a residential line (although I'd certainly be a little concerned about medical records floating out on some doctors' home computers), but it still comes down to using the wrong tool for the job. I think it's my decision which tool I use for what purpose. In fact, since CONTENT is not within the purview of my ISP, it's no one's business how I use my residential connection. Surely that point hasn't been lost in this discussion? Otherwise, every time I post on an academic newsgroup or send a work-related email from home, I'm "using the wrong tool". Unless you want to start talking about relative KB amounts - which would be silly.
I think I've been clear enough here. "Medical records" are not floating around on my home computer. Patients would be lucky if they were; my home PC is a lot safer than some hospital networks I've seen - especially in Canada. Also, as I said before (why do I keep having to repeat myself - this stuff is written down) I'm not in clinical research.
What is on my computer: thousands and thousands of tiny files, which (when compiled in certain ways by certain programs) make pictures, or Gaussian messes, or hopeless attempts at variable analysis. Maybe not exciting, but well-suited for torrenting to be sure. |
|
Dr BG
@bell.ca
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
For context:
In order to comply with the letter and intent of the University DMCA policy (» dmca.harvard.edu), Peer-to-Peer applications are restricted on the HMS network, the HMS wireless network and the HMS VPN. Examples of P2P applications are BitTorrent, Gnutella, Limewire, eMule and Ares Galaxy. Of these applications, BitTorrent has value in the scientific community. If your work requires the use of BitTorrent, an exception may be made for your system. A request for an exemption may be made by submitting a support request form or by contacting the HMS IT Help Desk at 617-432-2000.
It ain't MIT, but Harvard Med. has some clever people working there I suppose. |
|
I Need Speed
join:2007-11-12
Richmond, TX
2 edits | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
In my own research I have found this
»hms.harvard.edu/ec_res/nt/77428A···licy.pdf
This is the Harvard Medical School
Information Security Policy.
It states all the p2p that is not allowed on there network but there is an exception for BitTorent only.
to quote "Of these applications, BitTorrent has value in the scientific community"
Page 10 |
|
I Need Speed
join:2007-11-12
Richmond, TX
1 edit | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
Wow I can't believe I read this whole thing. 
So as I see it there are researchers all over the world doing studies on this and that, and have MRI information that they wish to share. One of them decided it would be easy enough to start there own Torrent site to catalog all the different research.
This Dr. heard about it from another and decided to use the system, to share his own research and is able to benefit from others.
So in theory if he has 150 subjects in his study he can pool that with say thousands of others around the world.
That just sounds like a good idea to me. First of all it saves money and secondly it allows for a more detailed study.
Why is it so hard to believe that researchers would want to be able to share and expand there own research beyond what there particular means are?
How would FTP from one site allow all the researchers to share information easily? Who will host it? Who will pay?
Isn't the original point to p2p and Torrents that it displaces the bandwidth across all users and not on one entity?
Now I have read both sides of this argument and I just don't understand all the nay sayers that wish attack the system that WAS NOT set up by this Dr. Why should he have to defend a system started by someone else? Why is it his job to start a sharing system for the rest of the world?
I will finish with this information.
I have a fellow IT geek who happens to work at the local University. I asked him about BT and this particular thread.
After he asked around he called me back and confirmed that research is OFTEN SHARED.
I have asked him to have one of the researchers read this thread. I will let you know what he finds out. |
|
bylo
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Waterloo, ON
1 edit | reply to not Dr Z at home
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
This then comes back down to a business purpose on a residential line. Don't misunderstand, I don't have a problem with people DOING this on a residential line (although I'd certainly be a little concerned about medical records floating out on some doctors' home computers), but it still comes down to using the wrong tool for the job.
Would you try pounding in nails into concrete with a tackhammer? |
|
not Dr Z at home
@teksavvy.com
| reply to sbrook
Re: How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
I'm not going to make a chart to show how you're missing the point i have things to do, Lets assume for a minute,
they are all not at work/school but say 75% are at home like the good Dr. claims is a lot of the time.. So Who's to say the others are not @ home.. the problem with your last comment
said by sbrook :These are UNIVERSITY researchers and Hospitals we're talking here. Is the fact you're assuming they're all at work/school whatever.. |
|
