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<title>Re: Sandvine&#x27;s MSO Case Study-Reasonable Network Management? in Comcast HSI</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19493495</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:12:43 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:12:43 EDT</lastBuildDate>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088776</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : You are about 100 miles from Warrenton ... hmmm, no explanation.  <br><br>I'm wondering if something in the FreeBSD setup might be squelching you -- maybe a MPLS rule or a NAT table limitation working against you?  Can you plug directly into the cable modem and test?<br><br>What Comcast is doing in most areas (the non-trial areas) should have no effect on DNS or web surfing.  It would kill seeding, however, by throwing TCP RST packets at your connections.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088776</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:17:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088474</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/543864"><b>abcstore</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Do your packets go through Warrenton?  (can you check via traceroute?)<br><br>If so, it is very, very important that you report this to Comcast tech support and let them know that you are in their Network Management test market.  Please let me know.<br><br>See &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.comcast.net/terms/network/" >www.comcast.net/terms/network/</A> for (sketchy) details.<br><br>Test market or no, your results are pretty surprising.  So is it any amount of seeding that kills everything?  Can you turn it down to 5 KB/s (40 kbps) or 1 KB/s (8 kbps) and still be prevented?<br> </div><pre><br>  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  ge-3-1-ur01.chesterfield.va.richmond.comcast.net [68.86.17 4.185] <br>  4     4 ms     6 ms     6 ms  te-1-2-ar01.chesterfield.va.richmond.comcast.net [68.86.17 2.70] <br>  5    13 ms    12 ms    13 ms  te-4-3-cr01.charlotte.nc.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.72.133] <br>  6    19 ms    15 ms    17 ms  te-1-1-cr01.richmond.va.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.68.110] <br>  7    15 ms    17 ms    16 ms  te-1-1-cr01.mclean.va.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.68.114] <br>  8    18 ms    20 ms    20 ms  te-4-2-ar01.newcastle.de.bo.comcast.net [68.86.72.162] <br>  9    21 ms    23 ms    21 ms  te-1-1-ar02.ndceast.pa.bo.comcast.net [68.86.228.102] <br> 10    22 ms    21 ms    20 ms  te-4-1-ur02.ndceast.pa.bo.comcast.net [68.86.134.49] <br> 11    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  68.87.98.12 <br> 12    20 ms    21 ms    19 ms  68.87.60.144 <br></pre><br><br>Seeding at 5Kb/s I can't even reply to this thread... Neither could I open the link you provided.<br><br>ABC<br><br>P.S. Boy, am I glad FIOS finally got to my house! 15Mbit and no throttling<br><br><small>--<br>This signature is NOT for sale!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088474</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:17:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087954</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Do your packets go through Warrenton?  (can you check via traceroute?)<br><br>If so, it is very, very important that you report this to Comcast tech support and let them know that you are in their Network Management test market.  Please let me know.<br><br>See &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.comcast.net/terms/network/" >www.comcast.net/terms/network/</A> for (sketchy) details.<br><br>Test market or no, your results are pretty surprising.  So is it any amount of seeding that kills everything?  Can you turn it down to 5 KB/s (40 kbps) or 1 KB/s (8 kbps) and still be prevented?<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More features, more fun, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087954</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:49:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087886</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/543864"><b>abcstore</b></A> : My router is a FreeBSD handling multiple T1s and MPLS lines. 6/2Mbit cable line is a tiny fraction of what's going on.<br>At times you can seed and browse but 99% of the time seeding kills everything (through cable).<br><br>ABC<br><small>--<br>This signature is NOT for sale!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087886</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:39:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083801</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  abcstore <A HREF="/useremail/u/543864"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing.<br> </div>I've only got 3/0.5 Mb/s, but letting the upload run at 39 kB/s (yes, that's Bytes!) does not hurt DNS, or surfing. Ping only suffers slightly. The worst effect is on streaming video (gets very choppy).<br><br>It helps that the router (D-Link DIR-655) does QoS, and the DSL modem (SpeedStream 4100) performs ACK packet prioritization.<br><br>P.S. I normally run the upload throttled back to 29 kB/s.<br><br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083801</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:35:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083765</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  abcstore <A HREF="/useremail/u/543864"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing. </div>Are you working through a router?  If so, try disabling DHT in your P2P client and close it.  Reset your router (power off and on), wait for a few moments, then restart your bittorrent client.  <br><br>If that helps, your router cannot handle the high number of connections that DHT creates.  Turning DHT off shouldn't affect you badly, as DHT's main purpose is to function as a backup tracker.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More features, more fun, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083765</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:30:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083710</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/543864"><b>abcstore</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NormanS <A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  italiansmoke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s. <br> </div>That should work for alleviating surfing issues.<br> </div>Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing.<br><br>ABC]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083710</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:20:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20954805</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/911853"><b>ajax25</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  ajax25 <A HREF="/useremail/u/911853"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.<br>I was able to connect to one of the seeders after<br>stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of<br>data got through, but I was able to confirm that that<br>seeder was on comcast.<br> </div>This baby is still hanging at around 95%. Still two<br>seeders, one I know is comcast. <br><br>There is also a second torrent hung in the upper 90%<br>range, have not been able to see the seeder for that one.<br>If the seeder does connect they get kicked very fast.<br>I'm in NJ if that makes any difference.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20954805</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:30:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915681</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Psst. I was being just as humorous as Sturm was.  But enough has been said.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915681</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:21:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915625</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Good grief!  Are there cross-linked topics somewhere or has this "delay the payments" joke actually spun this far off-topic?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915625</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:12:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915555</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  italiansmoke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s. <br><br>I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?<br> </div>Yes. The BitTorrent is a tit-for-tat protocol that links the best sharers (uploaders) together for the fastest transfers.  If you're only running 1 torrent at a time, 15 KB/s is plenty.  I wouldn't run more than 2 torrents at a time on a Comcast connection, and with 2 torrents you'd want to set your upload limit to around 30 KB/s (explanation: it works out to 3 slots per upload, 5 KB/s per slot).   During prime-time, I would (and did) run only 1 torrent at 15 KB/s. <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20915555</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:59:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914840</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/229001"><b>Pizz</b></A> : I would just personally switch over to DSL if you plan on doing alot of P2P or Torrent traffic.  It's been made perfectly clear by MSOs - that no way in hell we're going to accommodate those type of users on it's network.<br><br>Maybe when docsis 3.0 hits - but currently, dont use P2P and Torrent sites so much.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914840</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:04:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914790</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  italiansmoke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s. <br> </div>That should work for alleviating surfing issues.<br><div class="bquote">I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?<br> </div>I have never noticed any improvement in download speed with higher upload; but I have only used public trackers, and I suspect that any benefit would only apply to private trackers.<br><br>My nominal DSL upload is 512kbps, but there is a 15% overhead, so actual speed is closer to 425kbps. AT&T does not "overprovision", as some other ISPs do. Because of my nominal UL, uTorrent pegs my max upload at 43kB/s. By rough calculation, I estimate that it is closer to 39kB/s. Because saturating the upload bandwidth has an adverse affect on other Internet activity, it is usually advisable to throttle upload instead of running at the maximum. However, most of the adverse effects are due to packet contention. Delaying outbound ACK packets, which happens on a saturated upload, slows web surfing, and the like.<br><br>My modem, as I have stated, reportedly prioritizes outbound ACK packets, over other outbound packets, which would also alleviate the effects of upload congestion. And, in addition, my D-Link DIR-655 has some kind of QoS algorithm. The result is that I don't suffer the ill effects of upload saturation as severely as would be the case with no QoS of any kind.<br><br>Other than completing the unity ratio expected of BT P2P faster, I can't think of any reason for faster upload. I think  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> has suggested that, even for DSL connections, which are better able to handle P2P bandwidth demand, that throttling back is "kinder" to the network. While the 29kB/s that I am using is probably a killer on a cable plant, it doesn't seem so hard on DSL. However, if  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> were to suggest that I should cut back to 66% (26kB/s), instead of my current 75% (29kB/s), I'd do it. As a member of a larger community, I should minimize any adverse impact my activity would have on other members of the community.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914790</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:54:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914622</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><b>italiansmoke</b></A> : <br><br>reply to NormanS:<br>I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.<br><br>I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914622</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:25:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914590</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : There's no contradiction at all between the two paragraphs, and I've been in management position in commercial lending for 20 years where I've dealt with plenty of different commercial clients.  I've worked at banks and finance companies and have have to give warnings to employees who have had poor performance and let go the ones who didn't.  Pay cuts were not given, since employees should be given an opportunity to improve.  If they can't improve, pay cuts won't cover the deficiencies; instead, you hire other people who can perform to replace the ones who aren't.    <br><br>    ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914590</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:21:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914452</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by goody two :</small><br><br>Pay cuts are just that, not delays, as employees won't get back the reduced amount. <br><br>The reality is that in general poorly performing employees get warnings and eventually get fired if improvements are not made.    <br> </div>Your two paragraphs contradict each other.<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914452</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:56:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914442</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><b>italiansmoke</b></A> : I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s. <br><br>I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914442</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:55:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914251</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Pay cuts are just that, not delays, as employees won't get back the reduced amount.    <br><br>The reality is that in general poorly performing employees get warnings and eventually get fired if improvements are not made.    ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914251</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:23:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914201</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TheSaint <A HREF="/useremail/u/570239"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area. I've just signed up for Comcast HSI. Speedtest.net and the like all come out with decent speeds, but whenever I use a private tracker the connections keep on resetting.<br> </div>Not having used private trackers on a Comcast connection, I can't directly address that. But, in order to distinguish between public and private trackers, Comcast would have to take the time to build up a database of which trackers are public, and which are private. A rather costly, and, thus, unlikely activity on the part of Comcast. Without that knowledge, how would the Sandvine appliance distinguish between the two?<br><div class="bquote">Public trackers seem to work just fine with upload and download. What is worse than just the private trackers not working, I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve.<br> </div>Having used my sister's Comcast connection to download fansubbed anime, I can assure you that my usage never adversely affected my sister, or her family. The thing is, I was always "upload impaired" with uTorrent while working her connection. I never pestered my brother-in-law about poking holes through his NAT appliance. I just downloaded until complete, but kept the tracker until I could return to my DSL connection and seed until reaching 1.050 (which is where I have set uTorrent to automatically stop uploading).<br><br>BTW, on my DSL connection, I used to throttle upload way back (maybe half, or so), when I had a standard, bridged DSL modem. I have since replaced that with a SpeedStream 4100 DSL modem, which, reportedly, performs outbound ACK packet prioritization. And added a D-Link DIR-655, with the default QoS setting. Although my connection theoretically can sustain 39kB/s upload, I still throttle it back. I have uTorrent set for 29kB/s upload.<br><br>I would strongly advise you to consider the advice of  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>. He knows way more about how this stuff works than I do, and way more about how cable (in general) and Comcast (in particular) work.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20914201</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:11:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20913706</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by goody two :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by goody two :</small><br><br>Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service.  Brilliant logic once again.   :uhh:  <br><br>  <br> </div>And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.<br> </div>Let's keep our on the ball here.  We were talking about delaying, not adjusting, payments.  Performance evaluation/corresponding compensation do not result in delaying pay checks.  <br> </div>If performance is not satisfactory, an employee could be put on a developmental plan with or without a temporary pay cut until the performance improves. When the performance improves, the full pay rate is applied.<br><br>I guess it is a delay oy payments.<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20913706</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:51:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20913201</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by goody two :</small><br><br>Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service.  Brilliant logic once again.   :uhh:  <br><br>  <br> </div>And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.<br> </div>Let's keep our on the ball here.  We were talking about delaying, not adjusting, payments.  Performance evaluation/corresponding compensation do not result in delaying pay checks.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20913201</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:22:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20912274</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Hi TheSaint,<br><br><div class="bquote">Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area.</div>Sorry, I can't figure out why that would be.  The bits on the wire aren't any different.  <br><br><div class="bquote">I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve. </div>That's a sign that you have your uTorrent upload speed limit set incorrectly.  If you're on a 6/1 Mbps cable connection, I would set your upload speed limit to somewhere around 16 KB/s to 24 KB/s.  <br><br>Don't be fooled with the 1 Mbps upload size that you think you have -- it's probably shared beyond all reasonableness.  So that you don't interfere with your own and your neighbor's use of the net, I would treat it as about a third of that.<br><br>If you're going to be a heavy user of P2P, I would recommend DSL.  Even though the peak speeds are slower, the prices are cheaper the amount of bandwidth that they can carry without interfering with the neighborhood is a lot higher.  <br><br>Cable Internet has its strengths, P2P file-sharing is not one of them.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20912274</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:23:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911949</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".<br><br>We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?<br> </div>Priceless! -- Simply Priceless!   :)<br> </div>Yeah, they get quite upset when applying their logic to them as I see the "volunteer" supporters coming out. I am not doing so well financialy and I feel CC is "abusing" my finances with their high prices and continuous rate hikes. They "must drastically alter" their billing practices. How much is acceptable, I do not know and could not tell them if I knew, because they would just bill under that limit that I already deem acceptable and that would be bad, because everybody would do it. I will look around each month how much the electric and water companies charge and I will decide if CC is in the 0.1% top billers in my household. If yes, it is a resource hog and is depriving other services of using my money.<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911949</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:45:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911822</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by goody two :</small><br><br>Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service.  Brilliant logic once again.   :uhh:  <br><br>  <br> </div>And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911822</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:02:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911817</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : I am. I still have their cable TV service, with some outages, not that bad. Overpriced and they keep whisking away channels to the digital tier, which I also have, but annoying for my TV in the kitchen.<br>Next question ?<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911817</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:01:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910952</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service.  Brilliant logic once again.   :uhh:  <br><br>  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910952</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:59:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910523</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1414214"><b>EG</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  italiansmoke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Hmmm... okay.<br> </div>Way agree with Norman on this !]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910523</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:37:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910010</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/570239"><b>TheSaint</b></A> : Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area. I've just signed up for Comcast HSI. Speedtest.net and the like all come out with decent speeds, but whenever I use a private tracker the connections keep on resetting. Public trackers seem to work just fine with upload and download. What is worse than just the private trackers not working, I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve. As a new Comcast customer, I am NOT impressed. No hard feelings to the techs here on DSLR that are trying to help out, but this is not even what I would consider Internet Lite. Will complaining to the local Comcast office make any difference? Will they even consider allowing more traffic in on a specific account? Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20910010</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:59:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909499</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1171845"><b>JSRoman</b></A> : Wouldn't you have to be a Comcast customer 1st? How is that working out for you?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909499</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:27:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909372</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".<br><br>We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?<br> </div>Priceless! -- Simply Priceless!   :)<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909372</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:11:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909199</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><b>italiansmoke</b></A> : Hmmm... okay.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909199</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:46:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909017</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  italiansmoke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Any ideas?<br> </div>Yes: When an ISP employs Sandvine, <b>every</b> problem can be traced back to Sandvine.<br><br>Sarcasm aside, loss of sync is a very unlikely side effect of the Sandvine appliance. Forged RST packets have no difference, at the lowest physical layer, from genuine RST packets. No way the modem will react to this Sandvine trick by dropping sync.<br><br>I've seen my browser become unresponsive when I let a BitTorrent client saturate my upload. I quickly learned, while on a 128kbps DSL upload, with a standard, bridged modem, that throttling my upload myself lead to a better browsing experience.<br><br>However (turning the sarcasm back on), I also know that Sandvine is responsible for the deaths of several of my sister's (she has Comcast Internet) cats!  ;)<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20909017</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:17:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908979</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".<br><br>We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?<br><small>--<br>Treason is a matter of dates</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908979</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:10:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908616</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1236488"><b>italiansmoke</b></A> : I'm a Comcast customer, and I don't know if its my imagination or what... but I think alot of my connection problems(losing sync, unresponsive browser, having to restart modem/router) might have a connection to this.<br><br>It seems like whenever I open Limewire, and start downloading some stuff my connection dies. Does this have any relevance? I don't know how Sandvine works, but i've been noticing this when Limewire is running.<br><br>Any ideas?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908616</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:06:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908348</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  ajax25 <A HREF="/useremail/u/911853"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.<br>I was able to connect to one of the seeders after<br>stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of<br>data got through, but I was able to confirm that that<br>seeder was on comcast.<br> </div>That is the Sandvine behavior. <br><br><i>Delaying, not Blocking</i> my ass.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20908348</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:20:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20907754</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/911853"><b>ajax25</b></A> : As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.<br>I was able to connect to one of the seeders after<br>stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of<br>data got through, but I was able to confirm that that<br>seeder was on comcast.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20907754</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:33:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884783</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : If those two seeders are on Comcast, it might (but not until the end of the year, probably).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884783</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:04:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884660</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/911853"><b>ajax25</b></A> : Maybe there is some hope that that torrent that has been<br>setting at 50% with two seeders I can never get any<br>data from for the past week will actually get to complete.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884660</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:44:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclos</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884257</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TK Junk Mail <A HREF="/useremail/u/594412"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.<br><br>Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.<br> </div>The more he talked, the more uninformed his position sounded. He and I are more politically alike than different, and I was pretty upset at how badly his WashingtonPost OpEd missed the point.  <br><br>Today's speech tells me that he didn't even understand the technical matters.  <br><br>As to the legal matters, I have no earthly idea.  Broadband is so misconstrued in the law, a simple legal quirk could make him right.  It COULD be a sign of a real problem that five FCC commissioners can't agree on the law in this case, but it also could be a sign that McDowell is simply politicking by bringing up legal points that really aren't of consequence.  <br><br>Should Comcast appeal?  If there wasn't support for Network Neutrality legislation in Congress before, there would be after Comcast makes an appeal that the FCC is powerless to regulate it.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884257</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:38:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclos</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884147</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/594412"><b>TK Junk Mail</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.<br>News Release: <A HREF="http://www.fcc.gov/comcast-nr-080108.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Chairman Martin Statement: <A HREF="http://www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-martin-080108.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Commissioner Copps Statement: <A HREF="http://www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-copps-080108.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Commissioner Adelstein Statement: <A HREF="http://www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-adelstein-080108.pdf">Acrobat</a><br> </div>You left out the 11 page dissection of the order by McDowell. <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-mcdowell-080108.pdf" >www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-mcdowell-080108.pdf</A><br>McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.<br><br>Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A5.pdf" >hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a&middot;&middot;&middot;86A5.pdf</A><br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/bqv2h"><b>My BLOG ..</b></a><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/2a9xcb"><i> .. Internet News ..</i></a><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/yz8xto"><b> .. My Web Page</b></a><br>Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884147</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:20:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclose</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884020</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.<br>News Release: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A1.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A1.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Martin Statement: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A2.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatchDOC-284286A2/.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Copps Statement: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A3.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A3.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Adelstein Statement: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A4.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A4.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>Tate Statement: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A5.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A5.pdf">Acrobat</a><br>McDowell Statement: <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A6.doc">Word</a> | <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-284286A6.pdf">Acrobat</a><br><br>(Note -- this is current as of the time posted -- from www.fcc.gov)<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20884020</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:58:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872785</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/594412"><b>TK Junk Mail</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><A HREF="http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1686">Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet - Public Knowledge</a>:<br> </div>Here is a MUCH better look at what Martin is doing Re: Comcast & Net Neutrality.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121737525991595145.html" >online.wsj.com/article/SB1217375&middot;&middot;&middot;145.html</A><br><br>And because not everyone can read WSJ columns, I have attached the full article here:<br>[att=1]<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/bqv2h"><b>My BLOG ..</b></a><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/2a9xcb"><i> .. Internet News ..</i></a><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/yz8xto"><b> .. My Web Page</b></a><br>Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?</small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1333506~58bb95ade82b2b1fc7f8adb00b0cc68f/Martin%26FCC_are_idiots.pdf"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="145914 bytes" WIDTH=600  SRC="/r0/download/1333506.thumb600~58bb95ade82b2b1fc7f8adb00b0cc68f/Martin&FCC_are_idiots.pdf/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A><br><A HREF="/r0/download/1333506~58bb95ade82b2b1fc7f8adb00b0cc68f/Martin%26FCC_are_idiots.pdf"><IMG  align=absmiddle TITLE="download" SRC="http://i.dslr.net/silk/page_save.png" border=0 width=16 height=16><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/1ptrans.gif" WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=1 border=0><big>Martin&FCC_a&middot;&middot;&middot;iots.pdf</big></A> <small>145,914 bytes</small></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872785</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:45:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge)</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20872641</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <A HREF="http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1686">Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet - Public Knowledge</a>:<blockquote>FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell missed that point when he wrote in The Washington Post on July 27 that the better way to handle the Comcast issue was by collaboration over regulation. McDowell wrote: &#147;If we choose regulation over collaboration, we will be setting a precedent by thrusting politicians and bureaucrats into engineering decisions.&#148; Here&#146;s the rub. There is a mechanism for such collaboration. There is an Internet Engineering Task Force, made up of those who understand the inner working of the Internet best. As one of those Net luminaries, David Reed, testified to the FCC at the Cambridge hearing, what Comcast did was outside the bounds of acceptable practice. Collaboration broke down. Privately, some industry executives express nothing but disdain for the IETF, saying that the organization is simply a bunch of engineers with unenforceable standards.<br><br>This is where McDowell, in the same op-ed article, got it right: &#147;If they (collaborative groups) can&#146;t reach an agreement &#150; which has never happened &#150; then government could examine the situation and act accordingly.&#148; This was just such a case. Despite the attention paid to Comcast, and the less attention paid to Cox, which is using the same techniques, neither company has stopped doing what it was doing &#150; disrupting the traffic of Internet users for the most spurious of reasons. There have been a series of announcements form Comcast about how the company will work with this company or that to &#147;solve&#148; the problem, but a few words about talking of a potential agreement some day won&#146;t cut it.<br><br>(<A HREF="http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1686">read more</a>)<br></blockquote><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:23:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20866667</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : ((insert sounds of crickets chirping))]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:17:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865899</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : What was his response? ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20865899</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:01:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20864582</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : With recent <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/FCC-Majority-Plans-To-Punish-Comcast-For-Throttling-96436">reports</a> indicating that some votes in the Comcast case are already in, <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/FCCs-McDowell-The-Internet-Will-Stop-If-You-Regulate-Comcast-96484">FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell writes in the <i>Washington Post</i></a> that the FCC should rely upon private collaboration instead of punishing Comcast for violating its Network Neutrality policy.<br><br>Like a befuddled victim who doesn't understand how a judge could find my attacker as &quot;Not Guilty,&quot; I stand dumbstruck. Comcast was caught red-handed, their weapon pointed directly at our very freedoms, specifically the freedom to connect to whomever we want to using the programs we choose!<br><br>Robert McDowell, a jurist on this case owing to his position as FCC commissioner, prefers collaboration between private industry and public entities that have defined how the Internet works for a long time. We all support open and free governance of the Internet. But anything that affects our global network ought to be done in the light of day, not in secret backroom deals between Sandvine and network operators. And while I agree with the Commissioner that engineers ought to solve engineering problems, they need enforcement bodies like the FCC to step in when U.S. providers act nefariously -- just as Comcast was caught doing.<br><br>What McDowell ignores is that it was a private collaboration in the form of an agreement between Sandvine and Comcast to sell Internet access and its associated bandwidth and then use secret technology to interrupt some of that that access and take back some of that bandwidth that it sold.<br><br>In November 2007, Free Press and Public Knowledge, with the support of several other industry groups and individuals, filed a <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Consumer-Groups-Want-Comcast-Fined-For-Traffic-Shaping-89024">formal complaint</a>  They charged that the cable provider was violating the <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-151A1.pdf">FCC&#146;s 2005 Policy Statement</a> &#150; principles protecting consumers&#146; unfettered access to the open Internet. In the ensuing testimony <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Stanford-FCC-Meeting-OneSided-but-Useful-93693">and</a> evidence, the following were all alleged and proven beyond all reasonable doubt:<ul><br>&#8226;Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy &#9;that &quot;<b>consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of their &#9;choice.</b>&quot; In independent tests by&#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections">&#9;myself</a>, the <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/88591">Associated Press</a>, and the &#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Traffic-Shaping-Impacts-Gnutella-Lotus-Notes-88673">Electronic Frontier &#9;Foundation (EFF)</a>, we demonstrated that if a unique file was available on certain peer-to-peer (P2P) network nodes located on Comcast's network, that Comcast &#9;users could not transfer the content. It was completely blocked. If the file was &#9;not unique to Comcast nodes, then Comcast's users could only freely access the content &#9;only from the non-Comcast sources.<br></li>&#9;<br>&#8226;Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that &quot;<b>consumers are entitled to run applications and use services of their &#9;choice.</b>&quot; I presented &#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections">reproducible test cases</a> and results that showed &#9;that Comcast was applying an &#9;<A HREF="http://www.sandvine.com/news/article_detail.asp?art_id=1299">Application-Layer (Layer-7) Deep Packet &#9;Inspection device</a> to &#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18944131-Re-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections">change the way that the application normally operates</a>. &#9;In effect, Comcast was not allowing the application to run as it was &#9;designed to run; it&#9;<A HREF="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071029/020756.shtml">secretly</a> &#9;hid a device inside their network that changed the normal operations of the &#9;applications that I chose. <br></li>&#9;<br>&#8226;Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that &quot;<b>consumers &#9;are entitled to connect their choice of legal devices that do not harm the &#9;network.</b>&quot; Devices like the&#9;<A HREF="http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/10/29/gadget-envy-vudu-movie-download-service/">&#9;Vudu</a> and&#9;<A HREF="http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/myka-one-set-to.html">Myka</a> &#9;rely on the BitTorrent protocol in order to work, and both devices are &#9;certainly used to access legal content. <br></li>&#9;<br>&#8226;Comcast's actions violated the FCC's policy that &#9;&quot;<b>consumers are entitled to competition among network providers, application &#9;and service providers, and content providers.</b>&quot; Comcast was &#9;discriminating against &#9;<A HREF="http://www.sandvine.com/news/pr_detail.asp?ID=56">several targeted &#9;peer-to-peer networks</a>. The Associated Press reported that &#9;attempts to <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/88591">transfer the Bible over the P2P BitTorrent network were &#9;blocked</a>, and <A HREF="http://home.comcast.net/~richard_bennett/site/">Richard Bennett</a> &#9;still demonstrates that attempts to&#9;<A HREF="http://home.comcast.net/~richard_bennett/site/">transfer the &#9;Bible over a client-server architecture of a Web site</a> are always successful. &#9;This proved that users do not enjoy the benefits of fair competition between P2P &#9;applications (such as BitTorrent, Vuze's Azureus, uTorrent, Gnutella, eMule, &#9;or Shareaza) and client applications (such as Internet Explorer, Mozilla &#9;Firefox, Opera). </li><br></ul><br>Legal experts have weighed in and sustained the <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-151A1.pdf">FCC's policy</a>, that &quot;<b>the Commission has jurisdiction necessary to ensure that providers of telecommunications for Internet access or Internet Protocol-enabled (IP-enabled) services are operated in a neutral manner.</b>&quot;<br><br>The jurisdiction, the policy and the violations are clear. Left without legal or technical defense, Comcast has latched onto a footnote to the Policy Statement that allows for &quot;<b>reasonable network management</b>.&quot; At least half of the trees killed arguing this case have been felled arguing this subscripted three-word exception. To prevent Comcast from grasping at this straw, I demonstrated that Comcast's management was not reasonable. The blocking was not confined to periods of congestion, but <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/94430">ran 24 hours a day, seven days a week</a>; an assertion denied vehemently by Comcast but supported by tests ran by the Max Planck Institute and <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20840273-">ultimately confessed</a>. I showed that not only was it detectable and perceptible, it <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18661607-">completely blocked my attempts to upload legal content to users over the Gnutella P2P network</a>. The tests by the AP and EFF also showed that this blocking occurred even when the activity was so small and limited that couldn't possibly harm the network.<br><br>The prosecution put Comcast's pathetic <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20237146-Nothing-has-changed-Nothing-Nada-Zilch">trail of tales</a> and <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Did-Comcast-Hire-Public-Standins-For-Neutrality-Hearing-92178">shenanigans</a> into the record, which ranged from <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/86816">outright denials</a> of their scheme, to a vague and ultimately inaccurate reference to &quot;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/91822">reasonable</a> management&quot; that &quot;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/88711">delays</a>,&quot; to <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20781042-A-poll-If-Comcast-SHOULD-be-fined">diversionary</a> and empty promises to work with the Internet community, to a quasi-admission finally obtained during the cross-examination: that Comcast uses a non-Standard regime that blocks P2P uploads <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20840273-Re-Complain-about-ComcastHave-your-Reputation-Scrutinized">regardless of congestion</a>, that <A HREF="http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=347174">they still think that was reasonable action to take</a>, that they plan to <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/93022">keep doing it &#9;for a while</a>, or &#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-to-Manage-People-Not-Protocols-94670">may switch</a> to&#9;<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Begins-Testing-Protocol-Agnostic-Network-Management-94962">another &#9;non-Standard scheme</a> with different &#9;<A HREF="http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/p2pi/current/msg00072.html">side-effects</a> &#9;still unknown, and that the <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Tells-FCC-To-Butt-Out-92817">judges</a> (<A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Flips-Flops-Way-Around-Throttling-Lawsuit-95984">any judges</a>)  <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Tells-FCC-To-Butt-Out-92817">are powerless</a> to stop them!<br><br>The facts are apparently all in, the closing arguments made. The facts, evidence and the law are clear. So, how can even <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/27/AR2008072701172.html">one jurist</a> find the defendant, Comcast Corporation, &quot;Not Guilty?&quot; <br><br>What else do we have to prove? What else does Commissioner McDowell think that Internet users must endure before justice can be served? <br><br>With a case so strong, shouldn't we be able to get a unanimous vote?<br><br>Robb Topolski<br><br>PS:  "I did, I did" -- no, we all did.  But we really owe a debt to Free Press and Public Knowledge for standing behind the Internet's users on this.  Yeah, I did a little of this stuff, but they turned it into something that will make a difference. <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br>More fun, more features, <i><A HREF="/join/new/">Join BroadbandReports.com</a></i>, it's free... <br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:48:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: end of the beginning, that&#x27;s all</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20851107</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/772729"><b>Nerdtalker</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.<br> </div>And, as we've seen, an army of angry customers/subscribers.  :D]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:05:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: end of the beginning, that&#x27;s all</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850979</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  CleanGene <A HREF="/useremail/u/1544127"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.<br> </div>I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution  ;)<br> </div>Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850979</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:16:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: end of the beginning, that&#x27;s all</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850852</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1544127"><b>CleanGene</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sturmvogel <A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.<br> </div>I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution  ;)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:28:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: end of the beginning, that&#x27;s all</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850836</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1527372"><b>sturmvogel</b></A> : You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850836</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:24:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>end of the beginning, that&#x27;s all</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850789</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1544127"><b>CleanGene</b></A> : Now everyone gets to go to court to see if a "principle" - which isn't a federal law, or an FCC rule - can be treated as a law, rule, or even a binding policy of some sort.  Which is by no means a foregone conclusion.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:07:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: FCC poised to punish Comcast for traffic blocking</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850759</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/772729"><b>Nerdtalker</b></A> :  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> hooray! We (I mean we as in the anti-sandvine Comcast subscribers) won!  :D :D<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080725-hammer-drops-at-last-fcc-opposes-comcast-p2p-throttling.html" >arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20&middot;&middot;&middot;ing.html</A><br><br>Excellent!! ***shakes hand***<br><small>--<br>"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn<br><br>I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com<br><b>Spam: 12900+</b> messages currently using 406 MB.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:00:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>FCC poised to punish Comcast for traffic blocking</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850232</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/25/national/w183602D97.DTL&tsp=1" >www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c&middot;&middot;&middot;TL&tsp=1</A><br><br>Excerpt: <i>A majority of members of the Federal Communications Commission have cast votes in favor of punishing Comcast Corp. for blocking subscribers' Internet traffic, an agency official said Friday.<br><br>Comcast, the nation's largest cable company, was accused of violating agency principles that guarantee customers open access to the Internet.</i><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i>Comcast: <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/5pv5zu">We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850232</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:52:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Bipartisan FCC Majority Votes to Punish Comcast</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850159</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : I am hoping for two more yes votes -- but I'll take one to make it a "Quartet!"  How fitting would THAT be?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850159</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:34:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Bipartisan FCC Majority Votes to Punish Comcast</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850142</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/594412"><b>TK Junk Mail</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> The order is adopted once all five commissioners have cast their vote.<br> </div>And what if the last 2 commissioners don't vote at all?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850142</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:30:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>The FCC&#x27;s Internet Rock Stars</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850120</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <A HREF="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/adelstein-and-copps-voice_b_115020.html">Adelstein and Copps: Voices at the FCC for a Free and Open Internet</a><br><br><i>It's unusual for federal bureaucrats to achieve rock star status, but two commissioners at the Federal Communications Commission have amassed an enthusiastic fan base among the emerging "Open Internet" movement.<br><br>For several years, Democratic Commissioners Jonathan Adelstein and Michael Copps have stood up, spoke out and worked all the angles at the cavernous FCC in defense of an Internet that is open, neutral, accessible and affordable to everyone.<br><br>These are the bedrock principles of a growing movement of bloggers, media makers, online activists and organizers who are fighting for unfettered access to the Net.<br><br>While in the minority, Adelstein and Copps have been joined by a somewhat unlikely ally in Republican FCC Chairman Kevin Martin. The three of them are now poised to deliver a major victory to the little guys against one of the country's biggest and most ruthless media companies. </i><br><br><A HREF="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/adelstein-and-copps-voice_b_115020.html">more</a><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i>Comcast: <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/5pv5zu">We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20850120</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:26:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>WallStJournal: FCC Nears Finding On Policy Violation By Comcast</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20849964</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : By AMY SCHATZ<br>July 25, 2008 7:47 p.m.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121702935522186411.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" >online.wsj.com/article/SB1217029&middot;&middot;&middot;news_wsj</A><br><br>Excerpt: <i>On Friday afternoon, three of five FCC commissioners had voted in favor of an item that finds the cable giant violated federal policy by slowing or blocking some Internet traffic over file-sharing services, according to FCC officials. That virtually guarantees approval of the item, even if the other two other FCC commissioners vote against it.</i><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i>Comcast: <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/5pv5zu">We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20849964</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:46:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Bipartisan FCC Majority Votes to Punish Comcast</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20849932</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : July 25, 2008<br><br>For Immediate Release<br><br>Contact:<br>Jen Howard, Free Press, (703) 517-6273<br>Bipartisan FCC Majority Votes to Punish Comcast<br><br>WASHINGTON -- A bipartisan majority of the Federal Communications Commission has reportedly voted to punish Comcast, the nation's largest cable company, for blocking consumers' access to the open Internet.<br><br>According to press reports, Commissioners Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein have voted with Chairman Kevin Martin for an "enforcement order" that would require Comcast to stop blocking and publicly disclose its network management practices. The order is adopted once all five commissioners have cast their vote.<br><br>Last fall, tests by the Associated Press and others exposed that Comcast was blocking users' legal peer-to-peer traffic by sending fake signals that cut off the connection between file-sharers. The Max Planck Institute in Germany later confirmed that Comcast was blocking peer-to-peer traffic at all times of the day and night -- not just during times of peak Internet use.<br><br>Today's vote follows a months-long FCC investigation, launched in response to filings by Free Press and members of the SavetheInternet.com Coalition urging the federal agency to stop Comcast's harmful blocking. Since January, tens of thousands of people have filed comments with the commission, and hundreds have attended public hearings at Harvard, Stanford and Carnegie Mellon universities.<br><br>Marvin Ammori, general counsel of Free Press and author of the filings, made the following statement:<br><br>"This vote reflects the bipartisan support for protecting consumers' access to the free and open Internet. Comcast's blocking is a flagrant violation of the online rights established by the FCC. If adopted, this order would send a strong signal to the marketplace that arbitrarily interfering with users' online choices is not acceptable. Internet service providers do not get to decide the winners and losers online.<br><br>"Should Comcast finally be held accountable for its illegal practices, it will be the direct result of historic public involvement in this precedent-setting debate. We look forward to seeing the order, and commend the FCC for conducting such a thorough investigation on behalf of Internet users everywhere."<br><br>Petition for Declaratory Ruling:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.freepress.net/docs/fp_et_al_nn_declaratory_ruling.pdf" >www.freepress.net/docs/fp_et_al_&middot;&middot;&middot;ling.pdf</A><br><br>Comcast Complaint:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.freepress.net/docs/fp_pk_comcast_complaint.pdf" >www.freepress.net/docs/fp_pk_com&middot;&middot;&middot;aint.pdf</A><br><br>###<br><br>Free Press is a national, nonpartisan organization working to reform the media. Through education, organizing and advocacy, we promote diverse and independent media ownership, strong public media, and universal access to communications. Learn more at www.freepress.net<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i>Comcast: <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/5pv5zu">We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:40:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834778</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Project22a <A HREF="/useremail/u/1566561"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have a simple question, looking for a simple answer.<br><br>If I have Comcast and I use uTorrent, will enabling Protocol Encryption stop Comcast from throttling my torrents?<br> </div>It will help a little.  That is Comcast blocks unencrypted BitTorrent faster than it blocks encrypted BitTorrent.  <br><br>That applies to uploads.  Downloads are blocked as a side effect (everyone's upload is somebody else's download).<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i>Comcast: <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/5pv5zu">We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834778</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:14:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834600</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1566561"><b>Project22a</b></A> : I have a simple question, looking for a simple answer.<br><br>If I have Comcast and I use uTorrent, will enabling Protocol Encryption stop Comcast from throttling my torrents?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20834600</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:51:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20809331</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Interesting response to Karl's recent blog posting about the bandwidth apocalypse.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.michaelsinsight.com/2008/07/willners-epic-d.html" >www.michaelsinsight.com/2008/07/&middot;&middot;&middot;c-d.html</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:36:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>FCC Chair: Comcast Violated Open Access Ruled</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773713</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1432241"><b>cemetaree</b></A> : See below link, comcast ordered to stop its practice of blocking.-- Provide details to the commission on the extent and manner in which the practice was been used.-- And to disclose to consumers details on future plans for managing its network going forward. <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071100047.html" >www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co&middot;&middot;&middot;047.html</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773713</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 05:35:47 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Comcast Matter is Coming to a Close -- But Ramifications Ring On</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20657304</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : The FCC will hold a hearing on network management and net neutrality July 22 at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, insiders told WASHINGTON INTERNET DAILY, a subscription newsletter.  One thing the FCC is not likely to discuss is Comcast's interference with P2P uploads.<br><br>The FCC may explore practices of disclosure of service terms and capabilities -- or perhaps the successes or failure of American broadband as a whole.  Unless the FCC wants to drag Comcast through the mud a third time, the commissioners will likely rule on the Comcast matter prior to this date so that it can hear on these other industry issues -- many which were brought forward in the debates over Comcast's behavior. Martin previously told students at Stanford Law School that he predicted that the FCC's decision would come prior to June 30th and would set  "an important precedent going forward."<br><br>Carnegie Mellon University is the home of the Software Engineering Institute (SEI) and the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team (US-CERT) as well as its own prestigious Computer Science school. <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/6famoj"><b>HTTP</b> is the new Bandwidth Hog</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:17:47 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Comcast and ____________, Sittin&#x27; in a Tree, K-I-S-S-I-S- .. uh?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20506856</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Lewis Grizzard once said, "I have three ex-wives. I don't remember any of their names, I just call them all, 'Plaintiff'!"<br><br>You know this story. Comcast was blocking the BitTorrent protocol, which pissed off Vuze -- a commercial concern as they distributed video content that way.<br><br>When the heat was on, Comcast married BitTorrent -- shunning her disgraced sister Vuze. It was a shotgun wedding to be sure -- with the FCC holding the iron complete with shells in the chamber. When that failed to appease anger, Comcast hooked up with little-known P2P step-sister Pando -- another P2P sibling to both BitTorrent and Vuze.<br><br>Adding to this sordid tale is an even lesser-known P2P cousin, twice removed, who now joins our happy little P2PR family:<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by NewTeeVee :</small><br><br>For now the extent of [GridNetworks] working with Comcast, as it&#146;s trumped up in the press release, is &#147;collaboration with Comcast Corporation during NCTA Cable Show.&#148; Of course, giants aren&#146;t known for their quickness (or their willingness to disclose future plans).</div>Pando and GridNetworks are very similar.  Both are server-assisted peer-to-peer.  Neither one solves Comcasts' last-mile congestion problem (traffic to almost all other Comcast peers would be required to pass through the DOCSIS layer -- the upload bandwidth constraint on Cable networks).<br><br>Ferget the Bride.  Jus' show me th' cake!<br><br><A HREF="http://newteevee.com/2008/05/18/gridnetworks-comcast-invested-in-us-too/">GridNetworks: Comcast Invested in Us, Too &laquo; NewTeeVee</a><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><i><A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/6famoj"><b>HTTP</b> is the new Bandwidth Hog</a></i>... <br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20506856</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 14:57:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20371794</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : How to do capture the screen and save it:<br><br>1.  Alt-Printscreen<br>2.  Open Programs - Accessories - Paint<br>3.  ctrl-v<br>4.  Save As... JPEG (*.jpg)<br><br>Then you can upload the file here.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20371794</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:17:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369441</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><b>koitsu</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  devnuller <A HREF="/useremail/u/1365270"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Do you have an example of this dishonest advertizing?<br> </div>Sure, but the *entire* web page is in Flash, and it hides the menu bar, so there's no chance of getting you a URL for it.<br><br>They advertise "up to 16mbit/s" referring to the higher speed tier, which is likely outdated data since they've rolled out 30mbit.  For the standard/lower tier, it's advertised as "up to 12mbit/s".  PowerBoost is heavily mentioned.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369441</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:59:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369379</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1365270"><b>devnuller</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  koitsu <A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I don't want to see it go away either.  I do, however, want Comcast to be a bit more honest in their advertising about it.  I don't want to see them advertising "30mbit!!!" (30 with PB, ~12-13 without) when the average is going to be around 11-12.<br> </div>Do you have an example of this dishonest advertizing?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:46:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369340</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><b>koitsu</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Anon123 :</small><br><br>How is powerboost a scam? It's definitely nice when it kicks in to download the latest version of itunes... I always hear people bitch about it throwing off speed tests, so I'm left wondering if most people would like to see it go away?<br> </div>Like  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>, I don't want to see it go away either.  I do, however, want Comcast to be a bit more honest in their advertising about it.  I don't want to see them advertising "30mbit!!!" (30 with PB, ~12-13 without) when the average is going to be around 11-12.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369340</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:39:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20369117</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1365270"><b>devnuller</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  MysticGogeta <A HREF="/useremail/u/1173562"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Agreed. I think power boost scams people who don't know what it really is, to think that there connection is better then what it is.<br> </div>Yeah, I'm one of those average to heavy users in the 95%ile of the Internet user base.  I hate that they figured out a way to give me a substantial performance increase without additional cost to me.  And the nerve that it works for 100% of my interactive Internet experience.  <br><br>If they could only dumb down the network and give better performance to the minority of entitled users that congest my node.  Damn Comcast!  :^P]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:55:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20365969</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : I don't want to see it go away.  To someone who doesn't download anything really large very often (most customers), the speed is both real and completely useful.  <br><br>It does create an apples-to-oranges comparison when dealing with FIOS as a competitor.  But that's only a problem if you like oranges but can only get the price of apples.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20365969</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:54:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20364911</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : How is powerboost a scam? It's definitely nice when it kicks in to download the latest version of itunes... I always hear people bitch about it throwing off speed tests, so I'm left wondering if most people would like to see it go away?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20364911</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:38:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20361154</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1173562"><b>MysticGogeta</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Espaeth is 100% about gaming.  Boost won't help you in gaming at all.  The key to great gameplay isn't bandwidth, it's latency.  <br> </div>Agreed. I think power boost scams people who don't know what it really is, to think that there connection is better then what it is.<br><small>--<br><b><A HREF="/forum/disco">Team Discovery</a></b>-Join the fight</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:57:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20361116</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : I think chewch99's point is quite relevant as it applies to paying extra and getting nothing in return because the ISP decides they want to secretly prefer some traffic and degrade others.  <br><br>To chewch99: I dumped my 8 Mbps/784 Kbps bump for the same reason you should probably dump Boost right now.  Until they change their ways, you will continue to be cheated.<br><br>Espaeth is 100% about gaming.  Boost won't help you in gaming at all.  The key to great gameplay isn't bandwidth, it's latency.  <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:38:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20360193</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  chewch99 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1546153"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You know whats not really being mentioned is the people like me who are paying 90 dollars a month (Double the price of a basic connection) for Comcast Blast.</div>That's because most people understand that's not relevant.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  chewch99 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1546153"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Comcast has no problem taking my extra money every month.  However they have a big problem with me using the extra bandwidth that I PAY FOR!!!!!</div>You're paying for extra speed, not extra bandwidth.   Rate and quantity are two different things.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  chewch99 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1546153"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Only two reasons I know for a customer paying extra for high upload.  <br><br>1.  Online Gaming<br>2.  P2P filesharing</div>Expand your horizons a bit, there's a number of reasons to want faster upload speeds.   VPN access for working from home (writing an 8MB Visio back to a network share is a heck of a lot nicer at 2mbps up rather than 384kbps), getting better video quality from a SlingBox when you're on the road, or anyone who uploads content (ie, pictures) to a website on a regular basis are just a few additional examples.<br><br>Online gaming is a safe usage of your broadband connection -- always has been.   The issue is finite vs infinite duration transfers.    <br><br>It's not like this hasn't been discussed a few thousand times in the last few months...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:44:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20358182</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1546153"><b>chewch99</b></A> : You know whats not really being mentioned is the people like me who are paying 90 dollars a month (Double the price of a basic connection) for Comcast Blast.<br><br>Comcast has no problem taking my extra money every month.  However they have a big problem with me using the extra bandwidth that I PAY FOR!!!!!<br><br>Bottom line is don't give people 2MB upload speed, don't advertise it, and don't charge  people extra for it if they can't use it.<br><br>Only two reasons I know for a customer paying extra for high upload.  <br><br>1.  Online Gaming<br>2.  P2P filesharing<br><br>If you can't use one or both of those things then there is no point in paying for any extra bandwidth at all.  Therefor Comcast is stealing by charging people extra for a service they can't use.   Today it's P2P, whats next?  Tomorrow I can't host a game on Xbox Live?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20358182</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:07:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20357180</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/442639"><b>ztmike</b></A> : I thought this was funny..and reminded me of this thread..<br><br>This picture is taken of Konami's p2p solution for metal gear solid 4 beta for ps3/ they had the option to download from the official server or do it the bittorrent way..<br><br>(Konami is the publisher for mgs4) <br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.konami.com/" >www.konami.com/</A> <br><small>--<br>www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYueIC1pjM</small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/20357180?c=1299169&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IxOTQ5MzQ5NS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="21345 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=425 HEIGHT=319 SRC="/r0/download/1299169~1fe98b3c5483eea033e79d029fc0fe29/mgsbetalongupt.jpg"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:34:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20356906</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : You're welcome, Koitsu!  Thanks for the kind words!<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  koitsu <A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You look nothing like how I imagined, though.  :-) </div>Was the leather vest too "junkyard dog?"   :p  ;)<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  koitsu <A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Finally, I'm completely confused by George Ou.  I still don't know what to make of his uncomfortably neutral standpoint -- he was technical, which I appreciated, but at the same time so much of what he said felt like it had an ulterior motive.  It's like he has tons of stock in Sandvine or something, thus chooses to walk on eggshells...</div>George thinks that he gets $1000 every time someone says "Bandwidth Hogs" or "Metered."  Nobody knows why he thinks this.  Ironically, his disease is related to Larry Lessig's disease -- Larry thinks he gets paid by the Powerpoint slide.   :) :D :o ;)   (Larry's presentation was excellent! )<br><br>Seriously, George Ou is simple to sum up -- while he has a bias (as does everyone with a pulse), he does not have an interest in resolving his bias with the facts.  When presented with facts that disagree with his views, George  changes the subject or reverts to name calling.  To George, "winning" means never having to say, "I see," or, "I've never thought of it that way before."<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:00:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20352092</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><b>koitsu</b></A> : Videos of the recent FCC Net Neutrality issue (re: Comcast's Sandvine usage) are here:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.vontv.net/events/080417/default.cfm?id=9671&type=wmhigh&clip=8" >www.vontv.net/events/080417/defa&middot;&middot;&middot;h&clip=8</A><br><br> funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> is in Discussion 1.<br><br>I wanted to take a moment to thank Robb for his participation on the discussion panel.  Everything you said is spot on -- I appreciated how (in my opinion) you seemed to stay focused on presenting the hard technical facts and not going down the overly vague route like some others did.  You look nothing like how I imagined, though.  :-)  My favourite quote of yours was this:<br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>If you [FCC] have already come to the conclusion, as much of the technical community has, that this should not be on the Internet, and you already know that Comcast is doing it, then put a stop to that.   You'll send a message to the rest of the community that you'll come looking for them.<hr></blockquote><br> <br>Finally, I'm completely confused by George Ou.  I still don't know what to make of his uncomfortably neutral standpoint -- he was technical, which I appreciated, but at the same time so much of what he said felt like it had an ulterior motive.  It's like he has tons of stock in Sandvine or something, thus chooses to walk on eggshells...<br><small>--<br>Making life hard for others since 1977.<br>I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Comcast and Pando Networks to create &#x22;P2P Users Bill of Righ</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20339147</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Today, <A HREF="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-15-2008/0004793333&EDATE=">Comcast Corporation and Pando Networks announced</a> that they will lead the industry to create a "P2P Bill of Rights and Responsibilities" for users and ISPs.  With an FCC hearing on Comcast's anti-peer-to-peer practices scheduled for later this week, this is hardly a surprise. Once again, Comcast makes another sweetheart-sounding deal, but at the wrong time, and with the wrong sweetheart. <br><br>It takes a special kind of arrogance for a company that sells Internet Access to team up with another company that sells Content Delivery and together decide what rights and responsibilities that the world's Internet users should have. <br><br>As in its earlier "deal" with BitTorrent, Inc., Comcast's announcement today doesn't change any of the facts it faces: in 2006, it assured Congress that network neutrality laws were not necessary, saying it would not "deny, delay, or degrade" its customers in order to deal with traffic congestion.  Within a year it was caught secretly doing exactly that!  Even after a long string of deceptive and deflective statements and tactics, Comcast continues to degrade their traffic today.<br><br>As was the case in the BitTorrent "deal," neither Comcast Corporation nor Pando Networks represents the millions of customers and other members of the Internet community who were impacted when Comcast secretly launched its anti-P2P attack. <br><br>Today's announcement comes less than 48 hours from <A HREF="http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-281501A1.pdf">the US Federal Communication Committee's public hearing</a> at Stanford University.  There, the FCC is scheduled to hear from two panels of experts followed by two hours of public testimony on the Comcast incident specifically as well as similar industry practices in general. <br><br>No doubt we will soon see Comcast and Pando Networking executives start to explain why today's "deal" signals that Network Neutrality regulation is not needed in the Broadband Marketplace. <br><br>Robert M. "Robb" Topolski<br><br><i>Edit:  <b>Response</b> by Free Press <A HREF="http://www.freepress.net/node/38480">(LINK)</a></i><br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:00:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20306102</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : Do they always roll out updated code before an FCC hearing?  :p  ;)  (The last update was about 7-10 days before the last hearing.)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:25:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20305763</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Comcast is not shutting down sandvine because of the FCC, all they are doing is code updates to the equipment.  What those updates entail I guess we will soon find out as they roll updated code to the equipment this month.   ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:03:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20298278</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>RED monitors past IP headers?</div>Yep -- it needs to.   TCP is the only protocol where you can be guaranteed that throwing away packets is a safe event.  As such, RED will not discard anything except TCP packets.</div>I guess it depends on the RED variant (there are a lot).  I just reread Sally Floyd's "early" paper on RED.  RED counts on TCP lost-packet behavior, or similar response by another protocol, in order to be effective.  But Floyd doesn't limit dropping a packet using the RED algorithm to TCP.  <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:22:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20298039</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>RED monitors past IP headers?</div>Yep -- it needs to.   TCP is the only protocol where you can be guaranteed that throwing away packets is a safe event.  As such, RED will not discard anything except TCP packets.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:42:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20298002</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : It's arbitrary, even by Comcast's own description of what they're doing (although they refuse to acknowledge that the word "arbitrary" describes it).  Basically, according to their version of the story, when congestion goes up, they tear down users' P2P file-sharing upload connections.  <br><br>RED monitors past IP headers?  I'll have to go read about that again.  Giving a subscriber an even shot at the network shouldn't require Deep Packet Inspection.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:37:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20297235</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <blockquote>We synthetically generated TCP SYN packets at a rate of 100 SYN packets per second using the hping utility</blockquote><small><b>Source: &raquo;<A HREF="http://systems.cs.colorado.edu/mediawiki/index.php/Broadband_Network_Management" >systems.cs.colorado.edu/mediawik&middot;&middot;&middot;nagement</A></b></small><br><br>Apparently using practical real-world traffic scenarios to test with is too much to ask.  This synthetic test case would be known to the rest of the world as a "SYN flood".]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:21:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20296988</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/659143"><b>koitsu</b></A> :  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>, this is going to be an ugly battle.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/07/1457218&from=rss" >tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid&middot;&middot;&middot;from=rss</A><br><small>--<br>Making life hard for others since 1977.<br>I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:36:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294902</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>That something can happen doesn't mean that it is happening, is happening for long enough to matter.  Unless I can get behind multiple modems on the same segment and frequencies, I can't measure it.  And the whole thing seems beside the point.</div>In my opinion, this is the entire point.  I don't believe for a second that Comcast would have made the capital investment in Sandvine that they did unless the problem was very real.  I also don't think they'd continue to take the PR hits if it weren't a necessity. <br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We KNOW that the RST method is arbitrary ... so far beyond the bounds of "fairness" that it's laughable to be distracted by this discussion.  </div>You assume it's arbitrary, but without head-end data you can't actually prove that.  While closing down sessions to try and achieve a more consistent number of TCP sessions per user probably isn't the best approach, it's an approach that gets results.  <br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>RED is better than we have now, for the exact reasons I have stated. </div>Actually, for this scenario RED is awesome for the P2P users and blows for everyone else.   The reason is simple: RED attempts to achieve fairness in throughput rates among TCP sessions.  If you and I both have 400kbps upstream connections and I fire up a single FTP upload while you fire up a P2P app with 4 flows, when RED kicks in it will throttle my FTP session back because at a TCP level my connection is using 400kbps whereas your sessions are only 100kbps each.   RED only tries to balance TCP flows in aggregate, without any consideration as to how much traffic originates from each IP.  That's the challenge that ISPs face:  TCP balances flows, but not traffic per end-station.  To ensure that each subscriber gets a relatively even shot at the network takes a bit more work.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:04:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294568</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : That something can happen doesn't mean that it is happening, is happening for long enough to matter.  Unless I can get behind multiple modems on the same segment and frequencies, I can't measure it.  And the whole thing seems beside the point.  <br><br>We KNOW that the RST method is arbitrary ... so far beyond the bounds of "fairness" that it's laughable to be distracted by this discussion.  <br><br>RED is better than we have now, for the exact reasons I have stated.  Whether it's the "fairest," I don't have the ability to measure it to figure out whether or not I should care.  But what you're advocating is also better than we have now.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:29:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293964</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>(Sigh, ) true, but you keep changing the parameters of the little controlled test I was describing.  Are you just trying to keep me in the "wrong?"  That's not like you.</div>Not at all; I'm trying to get this particular conversation thread to arrive at the big picture conclusion.  The local connection test is to prove that TCP on its own will roughly divide the the traffic equally among the sessions.  You don't have to configure anything for that to happen, TCP responds equally to congestion at any segment in the network.<br><br>Given that each TCP session can consume (Total bandwidth / # of active TCP flows),  once the transfer rate per session falls below the provisioned line rate of the edge devices those end-stations with multiple flows will be pushing more traffic than those with single flows.   This is the problem;  certain applications can leverage TCP's fairness to bully themselves into a better position on a congested network.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:17:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293752</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>I agree with you on the outcome of the above experiment.  <b>But it doesn't happen among neighbors behind cablemodems!</b>  Both users will hit their 6 Mbps constraint before hitting any other.  The user with 1 stream will reach 6 Mbps.  The user with 3-4 streams will hit 6 Mbps.  </div>Of course it happens.  The sum of the attachments to the 38mbps downstream channel is greater than 38mbps.   Logic would dictate that at some point in time there is contention for resources on that connection.   The probability, however, is significantly greater on the 9mbps upstream channel.</div>(Sigh, ) true, but you keep changing the parameters of the little controlled test I was describing.  Are you just trying to keep me in the "wrong?"  That's not like you.<br><br>The answer is, of course, they both get 6 Mbps since there is no congestion yet.  <br><br>Now is there some moments of unfairness when congestion happens?  yes   Is this difference caused by the number of flows?  yes   How big is the difference, is it big enough to be worried about?<br><br><b>My untested theories are:</b>  the difference is counted in seconds, not minutes.  <b>And:</b> if the network remains congested, the difference quickly flip-flops so that the file-transferring streams have a DISadvantage compared to the VOIP packets.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:36:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293698</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote">[download accelerators] disproportionately create TCP sessions to boost throughput</div>C'mon, how many users use these regularly?</div>Everybody who runs a P2P client, based on the mechanism of how they work.</div>Hmmmm.  Okay, but they're not download accelerators.  The traffic similarity is merely at the near end.  Understanding that you linked the two helps me understand the rest of your argument. <br><br>One part that bothers me about all of this is the whole concept of "fairness" that people are suddenly talking about!  <br><br>Do we really want an Internet that's fair? I don't want my stupid file-sharing traffic to interrupt someone else's 911 VOIP call, even if that 911 caller is a "bandwidth hog."  I don't want to slow down anyone's gaming, either.  But I don't want my ISP to decide "BitTorrent Bad, HTTP Good" either.  That's not their job and, even though they've assumed that God-like role, they're abusing it.<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293698</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:25:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293643</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>I agree with you on the outcome of the above experiment.  <b>But it doesn't happen among neighbors behind cablemodems!</b>  Both users will hit their 6 Mbps constraint before hitting any other.  The user with 1 stream will reach 6 Mbps.  The user with 3-4 streams will hit 6 Mbps.  </div>Of course it happens.  The sum of the attachments to the 38mbps downstream channel is greater than 38mbps.   Logic would dictate that at some point in time there is contention for resources on that connection.   The probability, however, is significantly greater on the 9mbps upstream channel.<br><br>This isn't one of those "it might happen" situations -- it's a "it happens with regular frequency" situation.  I sit in rush hour traffic every weekday morning going to work;  that could be alleviated if they added more lanes to the highway.  The problem is the freeway sits nearly idle for 20 hours out of the day.  The goal is to keep contention to reasonable levels, not eliminate it completely.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:14:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293625</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Most users don't tweak their TCP Window size anywhere near as large as it should be.   As such, each TCP session tends to be artificially limited to less than what could be capable on the line.   If you were to take a random sampling of machines from the Internet  (particularly Windows boxes or older Linux boxes) you would definitely have a stark contrast between 1 flow and 3-4 flows.</div>I'm aware of that situation.  Statistically, that's noise, since the chances are equally good that a box on either side of the equation would be poorly configured.  <br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Try this out:  Find a server in a data center that has significantly more capacity than you have at home.   Take 2 completely independent boxes attached to your network and download from the same server.   You'll find that with equal network characteristics between the boxes, the traffic will divide between the boxes nearly equally.   Run the same test except initiate 2 instances of the download on one of the boxes, and you should see it consume 2/3rd of your total downstream capacity.  The amount of bandwidth each TCP session can consume is (Total Bandwidth/# of TCP sessions).  Therefore with more sessions, you have the potential to absorb a bigger fraction of the available bandwidth.</div>I agree with you on the outcome of the above experiment.  <b>But it doesn't happen among neighbors behind cablemodems!</b>  Both users will hit their 6 Mbps constraint before hitting any other.  The user with 1 stream will reach 6 Mbps.  The user with 3-4 streams will hit 6 Mbps.  <br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:10:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293622</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>nope, not at all.  Just as the POP3 client uses port 110 or http uses 80, the applications themselves will set the appropriate values.  It's only going to be us geeks that do programming, testing, etc., that will know any difference.  </div>The problem is the big picture again.   It's easy to prioritize traffic on your own local connection, though outbound prioritization is a fair bit cleaner than inbound.<br><br>The key problem with traffic marking is that it would bring about competition as to which traffic is more important between users.  If the provider is honoring DSCP markings that means that you truly can set your traffic to be more important than that of your neighbors.  If I run 20 RTP streams through my house and voice traffic is the the top queue, should I be given priority ahead of your surfing traffic?   We have this same issue setting QoS policies in the corporate world -- most port 80 traffic is user surfing that has no business benefit so it should be deprioritized.  Our top applications that run the business also run on port 80, however, so that completely invalidates our ability to differentiate traffic just on that port or application (the web browser is the same in either case).   ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:09:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293578</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><b>funchords</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Having end-users mark their packets is a pipe dream that won't become a reality anytime soon; in fact, I'd argue it will never come into play.  You're talking about introducing 1 metric crapload of complexity into the broadband configuration for end-users to produce what will amount to absolutely no benefit to any user except the rare few who take the time to set it up correctly.</div>nope, not at all.  Just as the POP3 client uses port 110 or http uses 80, the applications themselves will set the appropriate values.  It's only going to be us geeks that do programming, testing, etc., that will know any difference.  <br><br>If you want ISPs to keep playing Cat-and-Mouse with their users -- then keep taking control away from them.  They'll keep embedding their packets as payloads into other packets, using hopping ports, using more encryption and obfuscation.  I mean, this has WORKED SO WELL FOR ISPS up until now.   :(<br><small>--<br>Robb Topolski -= <A HREF="http://funchords.com/">funchords.com</a> =- Hillsboro, Oregon<br><A HREF="http://www.savetheinternet.com/=stanford"><b>FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet</b></a> - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293578</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:59:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Comcast to spend 9 months Reinventing the Wheel</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20293171</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Hey, I'm all for RFC 2474 networks (Random Early Drop (RED) which is weighted (WRED) for Quality of Service (QoS)), as long as the end-point users and/or applications set the flags.</div>RED was deployed on networks <i>long</i> before any kind of meaningful differentiated service started rolling out.<br><br>Having end-users mark their packets is a pipe dream that won't become a reality anytime soon; in fact, I'd argue it will never come into play.  You're talking about introducing 1 metric crapload of complexity into the broadband configuration for end-users to produce what will amount to absolutely no benefit to any user except the rare few who take the time to set it up correctly.  The DSCP-to-subscriber-service values are defined by each service provider, so there would also likely be different configurations between broadband providers.  (ATT and Verizon business use different DSCP values for their Silver and Bronze class on their MPLS service offerings.  Only the Gold class is common with a marking of EF)  The markings would also be reset once they hit the Internet border router as no Internet carrier will honor them.  Companies are more likely to use this level of differentiation to support the products they sell (ie, preference their packaged voice and video services above their HSI service traffic), as they would control the end stations to be able to trust the marking and it would make business sense of them to implement such a system.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I want to get the ISPs out of the business of using DPI for routing.</div>Then you'll need to prepare yourself to pay more.   You can get a completely untouched network connection dropped to your house today, the only thing is you're going to have to pay a considerable amount of money more for it. <br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  espaeth <A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Latency increases as the line becomes more congested, creating a noticeable impact on TCP sessions well before full congestion is reached. If I have a single FTP session going and you have <b>*[inserted: 3 or 4]</b> FTP sessions going, even if our connections are provisioned identically your connection will consume more bandwidth as traffic increases on the links between us and our target server.</div>When the network is not congested, the 1 flow task  and the 3-4* flow task  will perform relatively equally well.  (Assuming no retransmits, the only difference is in the amount of overhead).  <br><br>Do we agree so far?  </div>Not at all.  <br><br>Most users don't tweak their TCP Window size anywhere near as large as it should be.   As such, each TCP session tends to be artificially limited to less than what could be capable on the line.   If you were to take a random sampling of machines from the Internet  (particularly Windows boxes or older Linux boxes) you would definitely have a stark contrast between 1 flow and 3-4 flows.<br><br>Try this out:  Find a server in a data center that has significantly more capacity than you have at home.   Take 2 completely independent boxes attached to your network and download from the same server.   You'll find that with equal network characteristics between the boxes, the traffic will divide between the boxes nearly equally.   Run the same test except initiate 2 instances of the download on one of the boxes, and you should see it consume 2/3rd of your total downstream capacity.  The amount of bandwidth each TCP session can consume is (Total Bandwidth/# of TCP sessions).  Therefore with more sessions, you have the potential to absorb a bigger fraction of the available bandwidth.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  funchords <A HREF="/useremail/u/340409"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Lets assume at one particular moment, a VOIP packet and a P2P packet gets dropped during a minute of congestion.  Both are  retransmitted.  <br><ul>&#8226;The retransmitted VOIP packet is still small, and still fits into its original window size.</li><br>&#8226;The file-transfer packet is reassembled into smaller packets, all of which need to make it to the far end undamaged. </li></ul> <br>I'd place my bets on the retransmitted VOIP packet making it.