Re: Double-Talk in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19526721 en Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:24:23 EDT Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:24:23 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19534960 KrK : Amen and Amen!

If the Telecommunications companies want to get greedy, then bury them in their corporate greed by filing mass lawsuits and winning them all.

Get SPAM you didn't want? SUE. Stupid ads appearing on your screen you don't want to see? SUE. Companies like Microsoft and so on using YOUR bandwidth to phone home/bug fix etc? SUE!!!

And, the lawsuits will be easy wins because when paying by the byte, it will be automatic to prove damages. Sue, sue sue.

And then this stupidity will die before it can get started.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19534960 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:42:09 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19534928 KrK :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It is about time that pay-per-byte starts getting used. It solves all problems. It monetarily penalizes bandwidth hogs. It funds infrastructure investment. It avoids the need to throttle content providers, protocols, etc.
Yeah, except for one thing. It will cost consumers more. I'm not talking about bandwidth hogs, but everyday, regular users. They'll be billed for "only what they use" problem is the rates will be 3x higher.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19534928 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:37:58 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532979 openbox9 : You can get guaranteed full usage of your connection if you have a dedicated connection (not the "$359 Speakeasy Special"), which usually costs more than 4 times as much as a residential connection....and that's assuming only a circuit such as a T-1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532979 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:41:02 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532706 FutureMon :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

said by hhawkman See Profile :

No offence my friend... What IS normal use?
There's a second word that you conveniently left out...average. Averages are extremely easy to calculate and hence very helpful in defining normal.
said by hhawkman See Profile :

I pay for X download, and X upload.
No, you pay for "up to" the capability to peak to X download and Y upload.
said by hhawkman See Profile :

If I can't Use it, I am being defrauded by my provider.
There is no fraud in your scenario. If you pay for guaranteed throughput and have the SLA to prove it, then you can claim failure by your service provider. I still wouldn't call it fraud, but you can use whatever semantics that make you happy.
Get business class service and "Acceptable use" should be out the window. That's a case where you can be assured full usage of the bandwidth both up and down that you are paying for. Of course it costs about 4 times as much as residential, but rightly so since presumably you are running a business and require tighter SLA's on your connection.

- FM
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Undisputed BBR Karaoke Champion! Care to challenge me?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532706 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:05:36 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532183 openbox9 : I was talking about minutes used since I have yet to see a flat-rate, all you can call mobile plan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532183 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:44:23 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532171 openbox9 : Cost of doing business. If customers aren't willing to own up to being a netizen, then they shouldn't be connected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19532171 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:42:44 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19531229 gaforces :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

Do you do the same thing for existing mobile phone users?
I'll give it a shot, those mobile phone users, paying by the byte, a new ringtone every week. Texting, pay extra, roaming, pay extra. Want to surf the net? Pay a LOT extra.

It's just a money sucking mini-vacuum hooked to your wallet/purse.

I got more ... next time :)
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19531229 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:17:21 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19531028 Matt :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

Not really. It won't be much different that keeping track of your mobile minutes used. The providers simply need to provide that feedback mechanism for their customers.
It's not quite that simple. What about all the spam email I receive or the phone home traffic of any software or devices I use? What if I piss someone off who decides to DDoS me?

There are methods and models to eliminate all the concerns I listed and to make bill-by-the-byte work, but I don't want my ISP in charge of any of them.
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Pretty Fly for a White Guy™]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19531028 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:48:19 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530909 Kearnstd : normal use is running at 100% sometimes and minimal others imo. i sometimes torrent things(wont discuss it) but then i can go for months where my only transfer is playing MMOs which use less bandwidth then surfing normal web pages(when not counting patches).
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530909 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:28:00 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530131 openbox9 : Not really. It won't be much different that keeping track of your mobile minutes used. The providers simply need to provide that feedback mechanism for their customers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530131 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:29:47 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530130 openbox9 :
said by hhawkman See Profile :

No offence my friend... What IS normal use?
There's a second word that you conveniently left out...average. Averages are extremely easy to calculate and hence very helpful in defining normal.
said by hhawkman See Profile :

I pay for X download, and X upload.
No, you pay for "up to" the capability to peak to X download and Y upload.
said by hhawkman See Profile :

If I can't Use it, I am being defrauded by my provider.
There is no fraud in your scenario. If you pay for guaranteed throughput and have the SLA to prove it, then you can claim failure by your service provider. I still wouldn't call it fraud, but you can use whatever semantics that make you happy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19530130 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:28:02 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19529482 hhawkman :
said by booticon See Profile :

Did you even read that first question?

Nice, I disagree with you, and that makes me a troll. I believe you are the idiot. And yes, I do mean that in an offensive way.

(Edited to add emphasis)
We all have our opinions.
(edited to show that I don't care about your emphasis)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19529482 Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:23:50 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19529207 booticon : Did you even read that first question?

Nice, I disagree with you, and that makes me a troll. I believe you are the idiot. And yes, I do mean that in an offensive way.

(Edited to add emphasis)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19529207 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:26:07 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528825 Matt :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

I also noticed in the article yesterday that the Verizon rep stated they would not impose limits on usage, but then turned around and stated that consumers can use any devices as long as they are willing to pay for usage.

That strongly reeked of "we're going to bill by the byte" to me.
It is about time that pay-per-byte starts getting used. It solves all problems. It monetarily penalizes bandwidth hogs. It funds infrastructure investment. It avoids the need to throttle content providers, protocols, etc.

If this model flies, then expect to see it start appearing on landline broadband as well.
Except for the fact people (customers) don't want to keep up with it and it's going to be hard for providers to track it.
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Pretty Fly for a White Guy™]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528825 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:20:48 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528409 hhawkman :
said by booticon See Profile :

So you say "no offence" (sic), but then you trash on the poor guy?

Oh, and have you read your AUP lately? Acceptable use isn't saturating your connection 24/7, whether you think you *need* it or not.
Who said anything about saturating it 24/7?
However, I have that right if I so choose.

And again, the jury isn't necessarily out on the "idiot" thing. Go troll somewhere else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528409 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:16:16 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528279 booticon : So you say "no offence" (sic), but then you trash on the poor guy?

Oh, and have you read your AUP lately? Acceptable use isn't saturating your connection 24/7, whether you think you *need* it or not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19528279 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:59:47 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527995 hhawkman :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

You pay for a connection to the Internet for average, normal use. You don't pay for 100% of your bandwidth. If you did, your monthly bill would have a couple of extra zeros added to it.
No offence my friend... What IS normal use? And who the FRACK gave you that mindset? I pay for X download, and X upload. And I'm damn well gonna use it if I need to. If I can't Use it, I am being defrauded by my provider.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527995 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:25:55 EDT Why even debate? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527807 Piggie : There are so many other choices in most places in the country why would anyone needing data service use Verizon?

They lied for 4 years and didn't stop until a Judge called them on the carpet.

Now they want pay per byte.

Simply remove them from your selection and go on with life.

PS: Most towns have more choices than just switching to GSM also. Sprint and Alltel are in a lot of places and have decent data plans.
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| Speedstream 4200 Modem - 3m/384 plan | W98-W2KSP4-XPSP2 - All AMD | Buffalo WHR G54S with OpenWRT WR0.9 | 3 downstream switches feeding 6 total clients (no wireless) | Including the Data port on the side of my pork belly |]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527807 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:00:58 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527780 openbox9 : Do you do the same thing for existing mobile phone users?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527780 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:57:18 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527778 openbox9 : You pay for a connection to the Internet for average, normal use. You don't pay for 100% of your bandwidth. If you did, your monthly bill would have a couple of extra zeros added to it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527778 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:56:44 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527573 hhawkman :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :


It is about time that pay-per-byte starts getting used. It solves all problems. It monetarily penalizes bandwidth hogs. It funds infrastructure investment. It avoids the need to throttle content providers, protocols, etc.

If this model flies, then expect to see it start appearing on landline broadband as well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "BANDWIDTH HOG"
I Pay for bandwidth, and I use it. To NOT do so would be silly. The term "BANDWIDTH HOG" was created by 'the Syndicate' to cover up the overloaded nodes they created by overselling. PERIOD!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527573 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:26:01 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527517 openbox9 : Everything you mentioned was requested by you or your computer in some manner.

SPAM: IMAP is wonderful ;)

Ads and Flash are relative to the sites that you request

Windows updates? Your OS is requesting them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527517 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:18:34 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527472 emptywig : Damn tootin'...

wig]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527472 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:12:42 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527408 Jeffrey :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

If this model flies, then expect to see it start appearing on landline broadband as well.
I don't think we'll see that on home broadband. There is too much out there (from an innovative point of view) that requires high bandwidth consumption. If per-byte billing ever occurs at the home level on my Fios, I'm out of there. And I love Fios.
--
And so castles made of sand, slip into the sea, eventually.

I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527408 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:03:43 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527397 adisor19 : AMEN!

Adi]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527397 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:02:11 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527131 gaforces : It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay by the byte.
I will also ridicule anyone I meet who does.
And talk crap about the company's that do it.
:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527131 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:14:06 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527040 Jovi : It isn't about being a "bandwidth hog". Some use their connection more than others. Legally I might add. I am on the net more than watching television. That is my preferred entertainment.

But I must strongly say that with the bill by the byte system, it will finally quiet down the folks like you screaming about hog this hog that. The term "You get what you pay for" rings so true here. ;)
--
"Where's my coffee? Oh. I guess it's my turn to make it." :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19527040 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:02:41 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526721 bbenso1 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It is about time that pay-per-byte starts getting used. It solves all problems.
Except that pesky problem of having to pay for data you didn't request. If I'm paying by the byte, is my ISP going to filter out all spam on the mail server before it gets downloaded to my email client? Is my ISP going to block unwanted popup ads on any web sites that I might visit? What about annoying, high-bandwidth flash content that I don't want to see? What about windows updates that get downloaded even though I told windows not to download updates?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526721 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:14:39 EDT Re: Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526645 TKJunkMail :
said by Matt See Profile :

I also noticed in the article yesterday that the Verizon rep stated they would not impose limits on usage, but then turned around and stated that consumers can use any devices as long as they are willing to pay for usage.

That strongly reeked of "we're going to bill by the byte" to me.
It is about time that pay-per-byte starts getting used. It solves all problems. It monetarily penalizes bandwidth hogs. It funds infrastructure investment. It avoids the need to throttle content providers, protocols, etc.

If this model flies, then expect to see it start appearing on landline broadband as well.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526645 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:03:53 EDT Double-Talk http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526319 Matt : I also noticed in the article yesterday that the Verizon rep stated they would not impose limits on usage, but then turned around and stated that consumers can use any devices as long as they are willing to pay for usage.

That strongly reeked of "we're going to bill by the byte" to me.
--
Pretty Fly for a White Guy™]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19526319 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:23:45 EDT