ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Primus Talkbroadband
·Mega Qubec
| Bell routing
Hello,
First, this post is about Bell, but from a subscriber from a third party DSL provider. So, it's why I don't post to the bell forum.
I'm with MegaQuebec since more than 2 years. They provided a great and stable connection with only some glitch over the time. Overall, I'm very satisfied.
Since some days, they seem to do a lot of work on their network and one of these changes is they are now using Bell bandwith (was grouptelecom in the past).
Somebody can explain to me how Bell can route my packets from Quebec, QC to Toronto, ON via this crappy route : Quebec->Montreal->Toronto->Calgary(!!)->Toronto.
Also, most of non-bell traffic to Montreal networks are routed via New-York...
I'm sure everybody is jealous about this traceroute 
fd@duff:~$ traceroute www.primus.ca
traceroute to www.primus.ca (216.254.141.10), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 wrt54gl.lan.fdnet.ca (192.168.7.1) 1.415 ms 1.772 ms 2.941 ms
2 ip-66-254-43-1.mqdsl.megaquebec.net (66.254.43.1) 18.425 ms 18.742 ms 19.028 ms
3 199.202.64.2 (199.202.64.2) 22.543 ms 26.864 ms 27.161 ms
4 216.208.169.129 (216.208.169.129) 27.524 ms 28.762 ms 4599.821 ms
5 207.236.52.73 (207.236.52.73) 3619.052 ms 3621.034 ms 3621.331 ms
6 core3-quebec14_POS2-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.170.77) 3627.406 ms 3607.809 ms 16.596 ms
7 core4-montrealak_POS3-0-1.net.bell.ca (64.230.143.98) 23.036 ms 23.372 ms 24.937 ms
8 core4-toronto12_pos5-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.147.37) 35.780 ms 2775.741 ms 2775.984 ms
9 core1-toronto12_POS0-1.net.bell.ca (64.230.242.198) 2776.361 ms 2776.801 ms 2777.484 ms
10 dis1-toronto12_POS8-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.242.2) 3616.950 ms 3617.236 ms 3618.023 ms
11 64.230.230.122 (64.230.230.122) 2700.652 ms 2699.048 ms 2699.343 ms
12 ra1sh-ge3-1.mt.shawcable.net (66.163.66.10) 2735.675 ms 2735.072 ms 2735.367 ms
13 rx0sh-primus-canada.mt.bigpipeinc.com (66.244.223.174) 2706.958 ms 2708.857 ms 2655.229 ms
14 216.254.128.1 (216.254.128.1) 2891.368 ms 2893.589 ms 2890.999 ms
15 web.tor.primus.ca (216.254.141.10) 3670.800 ms 2885.242 ms 1943.325 ms
Thanks to my teksavvy backup login... you will never switch to bell I hope... :P
fd@duff:~$ traceroute www.primus.ca
traceroute to www.primus.ca (216.254.141.10), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 wrt54gl.lan.fdnet.ca (192.168.7.1) 1.336 ms 1.674 ms 2.768 ms
2 206.248.154.103 (206.248.154.103) 26.081 ms 27.934 ms 28.204 ms
3 206.248.155.249 (206.248.155.249) 51.985 ms 52.261 ms 52.741 ms
4 gw-primus.torontointernetxchange.net (198.32.245.22) 35.947 ms 37.880 ms 38.137 ms
5 216.254.128.3 (216.254.128.3) 39.847 ms 41.781 ms 43.776 ms
6 web.tor.primus.ca (216.254.141.10) 44.153 ms 32.341 ms 34.197 ms |
|
pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
| Bell has always had crap routing - even with some half good providers in the mix, they mess with their routing sometimes to the extreme making it crap anyways...
If Bell would get off their "we won't peer in Canada" BS and start keeping their traffic in Canada for Canadian destinations that would be a good start....
They also started utilizing Cogent not that long ago for one of their upstreams and have had NUMEROUS problems since they went cheap - Telus did the same trick in the past few months and their transit went downtime very quickly with Cogent in the mix. |
|
jobr
join:2004-10-21
Halifax, NS | reply to ohmer
I don't see anything in that traceroute that suggests it goes through Calgary. You have some abnormal latency starting at hop four, though. |
|
ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Primus Talkbroadband
·Mega Qubec
1 edit | According to WHOIS on routers' ip, theses two hops are located in Calgary.
12 ra1sh-ge3-1.mt.shawcable.net (66.163.66.10) 2735.675 ms 2735.072 ms 2735.367 ms
OrgName: Shaw Communications Inc.
OrgID: SHAWC-2
Address: Suite 800
Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW
City: Calgary
StateProv: AB
PostalCode: T2P-4L4
Country: CA
13 rx0sh-primus-canada.mt.bigpipeinc.com (66.244.223.174) 2706.958 ms 2708.857 ms 2655.229 ms
OrgName: Big Pipe Inc.
OrgID: BGPP
Address: Suite 400
Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW
City: Calgary
StateProv: AB
PostalCode: T2P-4L4
Country: CA |
|
jobr
join:2004-10-21
Halifax, NS | The whois just tells you that those routers are in an IP block allocated to Shaw/Bigpipe and that the company is physically located in Calgary. It's not directly related to where the routers themselves are. |
|
joshb
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Calgary, AB
clubs:
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Shaw
·Primus Talkbroadband
 ·GoDaddy Hosting
1 edit | reply to pstewart
said by pstewart  :They also started utilizing Cogent not that long ago for one of their upstreams and have had NUMEROUS problems since they went cheap - Telus did the same trick in the past few months and their transit went downtime very quickly with Cogent in the mix. Are you complimenting Telus 
--
common sense isn't so common....is it? |
|
pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON | LOL - nope... I actually didn't find Telus too bad from a transit perspective but not nearly as good as some others. But once they added Cogent as an upstream things changed pretty quickly....:( |
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nopemontreal
@bell.ca | reply to ohmer
Those routers are in montreal
hence the .mt. in their hostnames.
those IPs are owned by shaw out of calgary
so your stupid traceroute program will say
they are in calgary. |
|
yeah
@bell.ca
| reply to ohmer
also its not Bell's fault that the routing is like that, its easy to blame bell in this situation because everyone likes blaming bell.. but primus is the one with the problem there
they get their bandwidth there from shaw bigpipe and its obviously overloaded.
and maybe you can criticize bell for not being peered at torontointernetexchange but oh well, theres upsides and downsides to that. |
|
tigerbar
@velcomdsl.ca
| reply to ohmer
That's Bell's fault. I find bell does not like to build high speed private xconnections with many local peers, like Telus, Rogers and Shaw. So most of times, the traffic only go to US 3rd party peers (like cogent, sprint, teleglobe and T-system) and back Canada. Please notes, most of the time, in such a scenario, the local big players should have high speed xconnections (like one giga ethernet, 2.5G POS) with other big players, in this case, bell should have at least multiple 100Ms(maybe on a physical giga interface or oc3, oc-12 ATM connection) or one giga connection with many other players, with primus maybe one oc3 is enough, but not, because bell does not like these connections. So, it must let bigpipe/shaw as the 3rd party. Regrading to local public exchange, that's interesting too, normally the big players do not connection that. check here you can not find bell or telus.
»www.torix.net/peers.php |
|
pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
| reply to yeah
said by yeah :
also its not Bell's fault that the routing is like that, its easy to blame bell in this situation because everyone likes blaming bell.. but primus is the one with the problem there
they get their bandwidth there from shaw bigpipe and its obviously overloaded.
and maybe you can criticize bell for not being peered at torontointernetexchange but oh well, theres upsides and downsides to that.
I wasn't saying that Bell should be on TorIX - yes for the really big players there's pros/cons for sure BUT you'll notice that Allstream, Teleglobe, Primus and some other mid-market players are on TorIX and it does work well for them I'm sure.
But Bell doesn't like to privately peer with anyone unless it's in the US - it's been this way since the WorldLinx days and has never changed... Telus, Teleglobe, Shaw, Allstream and others will let you peer with them either settlement free (if you're large enough) or via paid peering even. Bell won't do that period for the most part....
Biased opion but there's a number of smaller wholesale DSL providers who have better peering and transit connectivity then Bell does... |
|
ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Primus Talkbroadband
·Mega Qubec
| reply to nopemontreal
said by nopemontreal :
Those routers are in montreal
hence the .mt. in their hostnames.
those IPs are owned by shaw out of calgary
so your stupid traceroute program will say
they are in calgary.
They may not be in Calgary like I said previously, but I don't think theses routers are in Montreal...
Quebec->Montreal->Toronto->Montreal->Toronto doesn't make sense... |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Based on a tracert from a Rogers address, it looks for all the world like MT = Metro Toronto and not Montreal.
But regardless, the source of the problems starts with hop 4 at 216.208.169.129 which is a Mega Quebec router and continues with 207.236.52.73 which is ALSO a Mega Quebec router.
Time to complain to MegaQuebec. |
|
ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Primus Talkbroadband
·Mega Qubec
| said by sbrook :Based on a tracert from a Rogers address, it looks for all the world like MT = Metro Toronto and not Montreal. But regardless, the source of the problems starts with hop 4 at 216.208.169.129 which is a Mega Quebec router and continues with 207.236.52.73 which is ALSO a Mega Quebec router. Time to complain to MegaQuebec. Yes I know, I had already opened a ticket about that. Seem to be ok now... but still with bell  (.
I hope that bell crappy p2p slowdown will not affect my connection. (not tested yet) |
|
JunkieXL
join:2004-11-15
Canada!
| reply to ohmer
said by ohmer :said by nopemontreal :
Those routers are in montreal
hence the .mt. in their hostnames.
those IPs are owned by shaw out of calgary
so your stupid traceroute program will say
they are in calgary.
They may not be in Calgary like I said previously, but I don't think theses routers are in Montreal... Quebec->Montreal->Toronto->Montreal->Toronto doesn't make sense... mt.shawcable = Toronto |
|
fuzzmania2
@bcit.ca | I thought MT would be manitoba? |
|
MikeG
Premium
join:2004-10-02
Hamilton, ON
·Mountain Cable
| said by fuzzmania2 :
I thought MT would be manitoba?
ra1sh-ge3-1.mt.shawcable.net is Metro Toronto.
rc1sc-pos10-0-0.wp.shawcable.net = Winnipeg
rc1so-pos14-0-0.cg.shawcable.net = Calgary
--
Success is measured by effort.
Discover Hamilton |
|
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to ohmer
I did a traceroute to the
ra1sh-ge3-1.mt.shawcable.net (66.163.66.10) 17.5 ms * 17.5 ms
and it is the same time as the teksavvy routers. So it is definitely not in western canada.
Bell doesn't care about having good routing to/from canada. If someone complains about ridicuslous detours to reach a site hosted on Bell's network, Bell will simply respond "it is up to the canadian network to pay the big bucks to geta connection to the Bell network". (aka: Bell blames the others. In its monopoly mentality, it shouldn't have to connect to others, it is everyone that shouly pay to connect to Bell).
Now, you may see some extremely strange routing with Bell from time to time. This may be caused by an overloaded link on a more direct route, so Bell redirects parts of the traffic over a longer link. |
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