Re: Beware: Joiphone in VOIP Tech Chat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19563011 en Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:12:22 EDT Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:12:22 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19809586 mpatrick14 : »From the Georgia Attorney General's Office

Before Joiphone came on the scene, their parent company Hawk Communications LLC ran a internet service provider called JoiInternet, which was based in Atlanta. In 2005, the Georgia Attorney General's Office scored a small victory against Hawk Communications, claiming among other things, that they engaged in deceptive operating practices by selling their internet access as UNLIMITED, when they actually only allowed you to be online 5 hours a day. In addition to that, like their current company, they were found guilty of failing to refund customers money for services that were prepaid when the customers initiated requests to cancel service.

The company folded and left Georgia, and then got a business license for JoiPhone in Southern Florida. Some things that haven't changed - the CEO Joe Egosi, the deceptive operating practices, and the piss poor customer service, including failure to honor money back guarantees and respond to customer inquiries and requests.

This is a corrupt company through and through. While there are many companies using "UNLIMITED" in a somewhat deceptive way, this company outright tells people when they ask that there are no limits on how much you can use this line. Most companies, when you ask, will give you the actual terms, or their website will make it very clear that there are some usage limitations. This company tells people they are abusing the service, but never tells them how many minutes would not be considered abuse. There are no guidelines other than "normal residential usage patterns" which they refuse to quantify in ANY way.

Another thing that is really bad with this company is that once they decide that you have abused their system, they can block your accounts, and keep all the money you prepaid. You can try to get your money back through your credit card company, but there is work involved in that, and it appears that they typically appeal those decisions from the credit card company.

Another trick I have seen JoiPhone using recently is shutting down people's 2 year prepaid accounts after the first year citing "abuse" Joiphone sells the prepaid package as "buy year 1, get year 2 free" So you would think that if they shut you off after year , you would get half your money back, but they tell customers that there is no refund for Year 2 because it was "free"

»www.joiphonesucks.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19809586 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:50:28 EDT Re: A Slight Variation http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784060 Test99 :
said by Hydraglass See Profile :

but why then even use the word "Unlimited"?
Why indeed?

The cell phone companies aren't shy about listing their 1,000-minute and 2,000-minute and 5,000-minute plans. See T-Mobile for example. Reports of cell phone companies going out of business seem to be few and far between.

It's true that cell phone companies still use the U-word for night and weekend minutes. But in practice it doesn't seem to cause the same level of misunderstanding.
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50775@fwd.pulver.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784060 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:35:09 EDT Re: A Slight Variation http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782662 Hydraglass : Well at least they are on the right track - I checked out the website and as you said the *'s are right there... So I guess "Unlimited**" with a clear definition of ** is a step in the right direction.. they have their soft cap and overage fees listed right there - that's fair - but why then even use the word "Unlimited"? That's still - well - shady? - we need a new word I guess... Limited sounds too "Limited" for the marketing types... Unlimited without the ** doesn't work... so? Suggestions? A good marketing word that means almost but not quite unlimited?

"MegaMinutes included!!!" ?? I don't know. I am not trying to force anyone out of business - I just want more of what I see Teliax trying to do here... "Unlimited**" is at least a step in the right direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782662 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:56:35 EDT A Slight Variation http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782429 Test99 : Teliax does things slightly differently. They use the word "unlimited" just like other providers. But at least it's hard to miss the asterisks right there in the signup page warning you that "unlimited" doesn't mean what you think it means.
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50775@fwd.pulver.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782429 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:28:18 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782246 Hydraglass : Well... my Voice over IP carrier and my ISP both? I signed on with them because they did tell me their limits and what they offered per price. Maybe I'm backwards?? Sigh.. wouldn't be the first time... but I guess my cynical side knows that the ones who advertise "unlimited" are actually offering "~unlimited" and can't keep their word... and I don't feel like being surprised and having to fight the fight when I learn what the "~" is.

I don't think it would be sales suicide if they happened to link on their advertising page to the "Terms and Conditions" of all their competitors that say "unlimited until you reach reasonable limits and then we'll cut your hamstring, sell your firstborn, rape your significant other, and plunder 3rd world countries to cover your overages". (Ok.. ok... I digress... but seriously.. *most* of the "unlimited" out there have this fine print hidden away somewhere - we need to pull it out in the open and flash it around in front of everyone.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782246 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:58:38 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782194 RockyBB : assuming that virtually all customers will do comparison shopping prior to making a selection, which carrier do you suspect will be the first to forfeit all new sales by implementing your strategies?
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782194 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:50:26 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19781889 Hydraglass :
said by mazilo See Profile :

I do understand your explanation above; however, I don't think companies like this shouldn't get away from abusing this term of unlimited.
I think you nailed the problem right on the head - they need to pick what they are going to do and BE HONEST about it!

1. Offer truly "Unlimited" - and advertise it as such - no cutting anyone off as long as they don't violate terms of service (i.e. using "home" VOIP accounts to run a call center, no telemarketing, etc.). Probably more expensive for everyone who uses it by a good size chunk of $.

2. Offer "Limited - Not quite Unlimited but almost" - and advertise it as such - "This is not completely unlimited but in normal usage you shouldn't ever find yourself with a problem. We consider this under XYZ per month" - you pay what you pay now most likely but they at least tell you your hard caps - and warn you if you violate them your service can be terminated.

3. Offer "Pay as you go unlimited" - you get so much included and you pay extra for what you use over this but there's no limit other than your wallet. Light users will find their bills slightly cheaper, heavy users slightly higher. Sort of like driving our cars - we drive more - we use more gas - we pay for more gas - we pay more of a percentage of the road taxes to fix the roads we drive on - we're all... well I don't want to say "happy"... but we're at least treated fairly.

The lies from providers regarding "Unlimited" vs. this modern "~Unlimited" (i.e. kinda sorted but not really unlimited) have to stop one way or another. Credit card companies at least seem to be on our side here from what we've seen in this thread. I hope more people do this - stick up for themselves when it says "Unlimited" and they get "Limited". It'll force the carriers to rethink their advertising and wording. Don't let them get away with this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19781889 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:57:28 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19781777 mazilo :
said by Hydraglass See Profile :

I'm not trying to defend JoiPhone here in any way - I'm just defending the notion that "Unlimited" has to be done away with as it's an untenable business model if you actually try to offer what you advertise - and to try to defend it now, the top percentage of violators of "~Unlimited" get whacked - that screws more people in the end, creates hostility, and opens up this whole can of worms. If they actually advertise their limits - I think we could all live in them - we just need to know what they are and where they are.
I do understand your explanation above; however, I don't think companies like this shouldn't get away from abusing this term of unlimited. They must come up with a better answer to replace this unlimited term, i.e. limited services, etc. You just can't flag your services with unlimited and start implementing your meter to watch your consumers so you can make profit. That is being very dishonest. Sure, I don't mind companies make profits, but don't lie.
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19781777 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:38:19 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780862 Hydraglass :
said by mazilo See Profile :

Can you please tell us who your PSTN company was that sent you such a note? I haven't heard of AT&T as well as any Bell companies in the US have done this.
That would be Bell Canada - the largest incumbent carrier here north of the border. After I had received the letter I called to speak with a business representative, who told me that their CO switches for business service were provisioned and priced with 1 switch port for each 10 lines, and their residential was 1 switch port per 25 lines. (At least at the CO I was dealing with).

I was basically told if I want a port all to myself, they would happily dedicate one to me, but I would have to pay roughly 10 times what I was on the port fee. According to my billing, my port fee was $33/mo, my additional services were $6/mo, my telco tariffs were $4/mo (911 fee, etc.), and taxes (15%) made up the rest to total $48. So my charges would be ($33x10 + $4 + taxes) - so $334+tax = $380 or so per month. For that they would provide me a dedicated port on the switch with a service level agreement - they highly suggested I "didn't want this at that price and I should look into alternatives" -- They really were trying to just push me to get a fractional T1 line from them with voice provisioning - but that's a long (LONG!) way from a $48/mo business line.

I completely agree "Unlimited" should be unlimited - 100% completely unlimited if that is how they advertise it - no limits - you get all you can suck up at the provided price and level of service - i.e. 43,000 minutes of VOIP calls/mo (that's 24x7), 1.6TB of data transfer on a 5 Mbps LAN connection (pegged up a 5mbps for 24hrs/30 days), etc. - but I think in the back of our bargain seeking, penny pinching hearts, we all know if they truly offered that to everyone and called it Unlimited, it would have to cost way more than it does now. The Tier 2 provider into the D.C. I work with charges $26/TB for bulk bandwidth. That's bulk - minimum usage of 100TB/mo. If our DSL providers all gave us 2TB/mo and everyone used it, they would be looking at roughly $52/customer in just bandwidth, add in all their equipment, a little for profit, etc. - and you're paying $80-$90/mo for DSL...

Right now they can get away with this "Unlimited" - but it's not going to last long. When everyone wants HD video on demand over their internet connections, people will all be using 2TB/mo - and there won't be dozens of people using 2GB/mo for every one who uses the 2TB making it still somewhat profitable to try and get away with "Unlimited".

Just like my PSTN phone company - they could get away with "Unlimited local calling" when it fit 10 lines per port on the switch - but if more than 10% of their customers started using the lines 24x7... they were in big trouble... the prices would have to go up for everyone as they required more provisioning.

I'm not trying to defend JoiPhone here in any way - I'm just defending the notion that "Unlimited" has to be done away with as it's an untenable business model if you actually try to offer what you advertise - and to try to defend it now, the top percentage of violators of "~Unlimited" get whacked - that screws more people in the end, creates hostility, and opens up this whole can of worms. If they actually advertise their limits - I think we could all live in them - we just need to know what they are and where they are.

My home DSL ISP is quite adamant and clear about it - they have a 1Mbps/256k DSL with 10GB/mo "light user" package for $19 and a 5Mbps/768k DSL with 200GB/mo "heavy user" package for $29 - and clear overage charges of $0.25 per GB - AND they allow you to pre-purchase blocks of 100GB/$10 so you can raise your cap if you want - I pre-purchase an additional 200GB/mo for $20 to keep my bill at $49 - and I know from my MRTG graphs that I average 260-270GB each month - so I've got some good leeway if I need it. I know where I stand, I know they'll never ever turn me off, and even if I went hog wild and used 1TB in a month, I'd just have to face a 600GB overage fee at around $150 - but they wouldn't turn me off and I wouldn't have anyone to fight with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780862 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:04:45 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780614 mazilo :
said by Hydraglass See Profile :

As an interesting side point - when I was still with a PSTN phone company, I got a letter from them that "unlimited local calling doesn't mean always on local calling" - I had an analog modem connected to one of my two lines with a "pegged up" connection 24x7 to another modem connected to a router in a local data center that was for "highly secure communication" for managing servers in that data center. (Only needed 28.8k connection for text CLI based i/o). This was a business level PSTN analog line at that - running $48/mo - and the letter said "you will need a dedicated port analog connection from us if you intend to continue this usage, prices range from $250-$300 per month depending on your central office, please contact our business office for more information".
Can you please tell us who your PSTN company was that sent you such a note? I haven't heard of AT&T as well as any Bell companies in the US have done this.

So - unlimited never means unlimited - from anyone.
No, unlimited literary means no limits or restrictions on boundaries, AFAIC. It is the companies who start to put boundaries on unlimited changes the meaning of this word. I just can't believe they can get away with this.

Our unlimited data packages from our ISP's range typically between 100 and 1000 GB/mo,...
For an Internet broadband connection, I believe the ISP has already capped your unlimited traffics bandwidth through your speed. Let's assume you have a 6Mbps download bandwidth, your download has already been automatically capped to about 2 TB/month on this line. For VoIP services, if the VoSP has put a cap of 10,000 minutes/month on their unlimited services, I believe we wouldn't even be discussing this unlimited issue here. :D
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780614 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:23:00 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780259 Hydraglass : As an interesting side point - when I was still with a PSTN phone company, I got a letter from them that "unlimited local calling doesn't mean always on local calling" - I had an analog modem connected to one of my two lines with a "pegged up" connection 24x7 to another modem connected to a router in a local data center that was for "highly secure communication" for managing servers in that data center. (Only needed 28.8k connection for text CLI based i/o). This was a business level PSTN analog line at that - running $48/mo - and the letter said "you will need a dedicated port analog connection from us if you intend to continue this usage, prices range from $250-$300 per month depending on your central office, please contact our business office for more information".

So - unlimited never means unlimited - from anyone. Our unlimited data packages from our ISP's range typically between 100 and 1000 GB/mo, unlimited VOIP calling between 1000 and 10000 minutes per month (and if you are using 10,000 minutes of calling a month you need to re-think your lifestyle... that's 167 hours/mo - over 5 1/2 hours a day).

I personally signed up with a per minute VOIP provider because it will always be cheaper for me - $3/mo for my incoming phone number, 1.1c/minute for calls. Even if I use 2000 minutes in a month, that's $22+$3=$25 -- the vast majority of months my wife and I use between 500 and 700 minutes - so our bills will always be between $8-$10.

Unlimited needs to go away... it's just tricking and fooling people... there's no reason the existing plans out there can't just change to report what they really are - "$25 for 2500 minutes - if you go over we shut you off" would sound harsh so every one of them would come out with "$25 for 2500 minutes and $0.02/minute after" -- no one would go through the pain that JoiPhone caused here in this thread - they may go through a bit of sticker shock when they realized they used 4000 minutes and owe $30 - but then again they would also be able to shop around for the best price bundle packages - just like we do with cell phones - "who gives us 1000 minutes peak and 5000 minutes off peak for the best price?". Fair, no?

By the way - I canceled my PSTN line that the phone company freaked over that went by modem to the data center and got a 56k PRI circuit provisioned by another carrier for $89/mo - put low end Cisco routers with 56k DSU/CSU on both ends for a few hundred $ - and it's been like that for 2 years quite happily now. (The company that I'm doing the work for doesn't allow for VPN or in-band management - it has to be an OOB channel).

So to each their own - but I would prefer everyone dropped "Unlimited" and just advertised what they actually feel they can provide at the cost they charge.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19780259 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:18:13 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779957 mazilo :
said by freqz See Profile :

Please note, Broadvoice only provide single residential usage of our service... or am I abusing the VoIP service. You can also ask yourself, how much would I pay to make these calls on a traditional line?
AFAIC, a single residential for an unlimited service should have no limits to allow anyone to place calls as much as s/he likes. There is no such a thing called abusive because your plan is unlimited. On a traditional PSTN service, a basic unlimited line costs nothing to place a call, except a one-time monthly charge.

Broadband Internet services in some countries are metered because they are limited. In the US, these services are also unlimited. You just use as much as you can because there is no limits on how much bandwidth you can consume. :D
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779957 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:08:05 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779895 RockyBB :
said by freqz See Profile :

So on one hand they are saying unlimited, but once the book opens ... it's another story.
And this is surprising because...?
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779895 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:53:50 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779058 freqz : Here's broadvoice.com's response to my questions about "unlimited" they have posted all over.. So on one hand they are saying unlimited, but once the book opens ... it's another story.

Hi,
Please note, Broadvoice only provide single residential usage of our service.
Single residential usage - we base our plans on what the average single user uses each month and their patterns of use. When the number, frequency, or types of callers very from this significantly, the plan is in violation of our TOS.
We cannot explain the limits because it is not a number or anything like that. Our server analyzes calling patterns. A simple test of this is to ask yourself - would I make the same number and length of calls on a traditional PSTN phone line? or am I abusing the VoIP service. You can also ask yourself, how much would I pay to make these calls on a traditional line?
You can port your numbers into Broadvoice. We don't have any promotions and we don't allow customer pay one year fee ahead.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
BroadVoice Customer Care]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19779058 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:51:22 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19778552 mazilo :
said by N9MD See Profile :

Just as a point of information, mazilo, the AutoBahns in Germany are no longer "unlimited" --- so even the German authorities are being dishonest about their use of the term "unlimited".
Thanks for pointing that out. If speed limit signs have been posted on the German Auto Bahns, then the at least the German authorities are being honest regarding the speed limit.
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19778552 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:06:44 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19777463 N9MD :
said by mazilo See Profile :

That is what I meant that these people have defaced the meaning and values of unlimited. AFAIC, the term unlimited has no boundary. For instance, most highway in the US still has a 55MPH speed limit; OTOH, the German Auto Banh has no speed limit (unlimited) and drivers can just speed as fast as his/her equipment can deliver.
Just as a point of information, mazilo, the AutoBahns in Germany are no longer "unlimited" --- so even the German authorities are being dishonest about their use of the term "unlimited".

My wife and I spent two weeks in July driving all over Germany -- on the AutoBahns. Every highway now has posted speed limits -- and the limits change very quickly and often as one drives along, depending on curves, uphill/downhill, clustered vs. sparse on/off ramps, and urban verses rural areas. And there are signs indicating even lower speed limits for wet road conditions.

Moreover, drivers in Germany are truly courteous to a fault, unlike US drivers. In Germany, overtaking cars in the left passing lanes immediately move to the right-most cruising lane as soon as they pass another vehicle. Nobody hogs the left lane -- like New Yorkers do when they drive in New Jersey. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19777463 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:06:36 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19776043 freqz : Yes, I did get my money back from my CC company. It was a open and shut case. I gave all my information I had collected and sent along with my dispute, and my cc company called me and asked a few questions like, did they give you a warning, is it working now, etc. Of course I was turned off and the joiphone recording said that as well. I got the charged reversed and 2 weeks ago, I got follow up call from my CC company saying joiphone was disputing the reversal, and not too worry, the case is closed. Joiphone was saying they never shut the service off or blocked anything. But the CC company verifed the number was turned off, and all the doc's. Basically the CC Company advised me to not reactivate with them if they call.

So In the mean time I've been using Phonepower, while collecting information on other voip companies on the dark-area of the usage/unlimited. Have my final choice narrowed down to 2 or 3 right now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19776043 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:20:46 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775576 mazilo : This is what those VoSP companies should to by replacing the word unlimited with limited which really reflects to what is written on the fine-print ToS with boundaries. They should come out to clean themselves with the word limited services and add some incentives to attract more consumers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775576 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:14:18 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775286 RockyBB : I don't know how to do it, but maybe someone can set up a poll... which do we prefer, the dictionary definition of "unlimited," or higher prices? certainly the former leads to the latter.
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775286 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:33:24 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775254 mazilo :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

..., then read the fine print for Qwest's "unlimited" »www.qwest.com/residential/ld/index.html
That is what I meant that these people have defaced the meaning and values of unlimited. AFAIC, the term unlimited has no boundary. For instance, most highway in the US still has a 55MPH speed limit; OTOH, the German Auto Banh has no speed limit (unlimited) and drivers can just speed as fast as his/her equipment can deliver. When a VoSP company starts imposing certain boundaries on their unlimited services, then the services are no longer categorized/considered as unlimited. I think those such VoSP companies, not only have their service outsourced, but also have their CEO outsourced, too. This explains why they start f*cking up our good English, such as unlimited services with some boundaries in fine prints. :D The Feds must do something about this like they used to when shutting down the Italian mobsters in NY with their infamous slogan of we don't kill people, except we put them to sleep forever and that isn't killing, AFAWC. LOL
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19775254 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:29:02 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773974 RockyBB :
said by mazilo See Profile :

Due to their greediness, it looks like those CEOs of VoSPs are very and literary uneducated to understand what the word unlimited means. :D
Oh, they know what it means. It means the same thing to the VOIP providers as it does to Verizon and Qwest with their "unlimited" long distance offers. Click below, then choose a state in color, then read the fine print for Qwest's "unlimited" »www.qwest.com/residential/ld/index.html
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773974 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:48:48 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773884 mazilo :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

Once the regulators require the word unlimited to mean without limits, then *poof* all the unlimited plans will be gone and then we'll be in the world where it'll be X,000 minutes for $25 + y¢ for additional minutes.
Exactly. VoSPs that do this definitely a$$ume their customers won't use more than X amount of minutes/month to consider the plan is unlimited. You know that when you ASSUME, you really make an a$$ of me for you, let alone to screw the original meaning of unlimited in this matter. Due to their greediness, it looks like those CEOs of VoSPs are very and literary uneducated to understand what the word unlimited means. :D
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Mazilo
US Phone: +1-678-601-0907
UK Phone: +44-703-194-2574]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773884 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:29:31 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773618 RockyBB :
said by jubangy See Profile :

There really is no defense for this crap
I'll agree that it never should have gotten this far, but be careful what you wish for. Once the regulators require the word unlimited to mean without limits, then *poof* all the unlimited plans will be gone and then we'll be in the world where it'll be X,000 minutes for $25 + y¢ for additional minutes. Some carriers will have different bundle plans, other will have minute bundles to purchase, some customers will go over their limits and get killed by the overage charges ... all in all, for regular users, the average cost will go up because the carriers will no longer be able to lump in the light users with the heavy users into a single price point. The heavy users will especially be hard hit as they will be charged for their heavy usage. Those heavy users who feel penalized now for hitting soft caps sometimes will get their just desserts when they start having to pay per minute above their carrier's maximum threshold. Wait and see!
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"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19773618 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:36:17 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19772947 jubangy : How about we just go by the definition of unlimited.

having no limits in range or scope; "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the ...
outright: without reservation or exception
inexhaustible: that cannot be entirely consumed or used up; "an inexhaustible supply of coal"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Now, when they put the unlimited plan next to a lower priced plan, and the lower priced plan says it includes say 100 minutes, and the unlimited plan says nothing about limits, what in the hell is the average person going to make of that? Exactly what was intended, that there is no limits on minutes!
For anyone to actually sit here and defend this shit is plain out ridiculous!
As much as I hate government intervention, this is one area it is needed, to many companies have slid into the routine of deception to screw people.
There really is no defense for this crap, and anyone that agrees with it, well you must be out screwing people daily also, must sell cars or something. If your going to put aminute cap on the shit don't call it unlimited, there is only 1 defintion for unlimited, without limits!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19772947 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:15:21 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19772764 zaldy :
said by Russell_ See Profile :

said by freqz See Profile :
I can take the hint, and Yea, I've already disputed the charges, which already show as a credit, there is no way they can pull out of that one, It's all over their web site, Unlimited, their email exchange with me stating unlimited, my account information still on their site stating "Unlimited yearly", etc. I took all that information and "snagit'd and along with my dispute when I faxed it to them. Talking with the CC company fraud dept. they said it's a open and shut case.
Just wondering if you got your money back from your CC company.
Same question here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19772764 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:32:22 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19771776 Russell_ :
said by freqz See Profile :
I can take the hint, and Yea, I've already disputed the charges, which already show as a credit, there is no way they can pull out of that one, It's all over their web site, Unlimited, their email exchange with me stating unlimited, my account information still on their site stating "Unlimited yearly", etc. I took all that information and "snagit'd and along with my dispute when I faxed it to them. Talking with the CC company fraud dept. they said it's a open and shut case.
Just wondering if you got your money back from your CC company.
--
Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19771776 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:29:05 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19770947 mpatrick14 : »Joi Phone

DLSReports.com actually has a section reserved for JoiPhone Reviews and an "Unofficial JoiPhone Discussion Forum"

There is a ton of good information there, including links to other threads on dlsreport.com about JoiPhone, other sites full of reviews of the company, the infamous Terms of Service, and links to the Better Business Bureau site for the company, where you can click the link to file a complaint.

As someone who has personally been victimized by JoiPhone's fraudulent activities, I wanted to try and collect all of the info I could in the actual JoiPhone forum where it would be easier for people to locate.

If you have any questions about the company or how to complain, or even just want to vent, please feel free to shoot me a note!

Thanks!
Mike]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19770947 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:33:12 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579954 freqz : As for Joiphone's quality, about 90% of the time, Callers said I sounded very low/faint.

The only other problem I had was when I connected their adapter in front of my router. It killed my Up/Down speed by no less then 75%. Right now my up/dow speed is on average 14 meg down / 1.5 meg up . Put their adapter Linksys SPA2100 in front of it just kills the bandwidth. Does not matter if your on the phone or not.

Their User control Panel brings back the memory of Basica programming before the days of Microsoft.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579954 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:50:33 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579428 SMCinAZ : You should buy a couple of MagicJacks, at least for your kids. They get their own numbers and can yack all day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579428 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:24:45 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579264 zaldy : Aside from the "Unlimited" issue from joiphone, how about the quality of the calls? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19579264 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 05:08:52 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19571523 RockyBB :
said by christcorp See Profile :

I know it sucks
I've been participating on this forum for almost 3 years, and this topic seems to pop up every 6 months or so -- only the name is different. Here's the deal: no residential provider will be the first to stop using the word unlimited. That would be the equivalent of sales suicide. No amount of kvetching or whining by any of us will drive any carrier to their own certain doom. The only way that the word "unlimited" will be eliminated from the marketing of commercial VOIP services is by government order (legislative, regulatory or judicial). Once the government starts to micromanage the marketing of VOIP services, then the business will end up like the side of a cereal box or a pack of cigarettes: with all sorts of disclosures. With regulatory oversight comes increased costs of complying with such regulations, and with increased costs come increased price. Consumer accounts which are unprofitable to serve will end up ruining it for everyone.
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19571523 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:11:27 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19569246 christcorp : The biggest problem people have with VOIP and the word "UNLIMITED", is what you consider "UNLIMITED". I've spoken with a number of voip CEOs, number of lawyers, state government; attorney general, interstate trade, etc... The problem is, what the company refers to "UNLIMITED" may not be what you think it is.

Now, some can consider that a bait and switch, some can consider it good marketing. What matters most is whether the majority of customers stay with the provider and the provider makes money or not.

The word "UNLIMITED" can imply many different things. Just because it's not what you think it means, doesn't mean it is wrong. For instance; many voip customers automatically "ASSUME" that an "UNLIMITED LINE" means "UNLIMITED MINUTES". The problem is, the word "MINUTES" is not in there. Matter of fact, joiphone on the main page says; "All plans are subject to reasonable residential usage limitations (domestic or international)". So, does that mean that joiphone is lying when they say the line is "UNLIMITED". No really.

"UNLIMITED" can mean; Unlimited places you can call; You have unlimited access to all of their features; unlimited access to any of their rate centers; Unlimited amount of lines at $8.95 a month each; Unlimited IN-NETWORK calling; Unlimited time 24/7/365 with no different rates like Ma'Bell; etc... There are a lot of things about their line that are "UNLIMITED". Only the customer automatically assumes that "UNLIMITED" implies MINUTES and USAGE are what is "UNLIMITED".

Now, is this misleading, bait and switch, unethical, etc...? That is a separate debate. The real problem is that giving advice is useless. The advice of; "Ask the provider DETAILS prior to signing up for service" is only good advice to a NEW voip customer. The majority of folks on a forum are here usually because they were looking for answers to a problem. Hence, they are already a customer or already has learned their lesson.

So, the truth is, most all of these voip providers are indeed offering "UNLIMITED" voip telephone service. Just not necessarily "UNLIMITED MINUTES". I know it sucks, but that's the truth and how they get away with stating the word "Unlimited". Later... Mike....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19569246 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:26:34 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568884 unknvoip :
said by Syed Khursheed :

ohh Sorry! thats my mistake....it was on Nov 25th!
Dec 6th?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568884 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:25:30 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568846 anon : ohh Sorry! thats my mistake....it was on Nov 25th!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568846 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:19:47 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568756 RockyBB : sorry, sucker, but you shouldn't buy VOIP service based on price. likewise, you should not buy cheap calendars from discount bins. 11 days after Nov 27 is Dec 8 which hasn't happened yet.
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568756 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:04:33 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568701 anon : I have sign up with JoiPhone on Nov 27th but I haven't recieved my equipment yet. Whenever I tried to customer support they said everything is fine and we will ship your kit very soon.
They charge $14.95 for the shipping and its around more than 11 days and I have not recieved shipment from JoiPhone.
I think this is a BOGUS COMPANY and they are doing the sale as SUNROCKET did.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19568701 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:55:35 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19567529 anon : Hey Joiphone is a realscam
You want to see how many people got cheated by them.
recently they introduced unlimited calling to India at 40$ per month and when the people started making calls they blocked all their accounts with out notification.
Check the below site. It started well and after that see how many users started complaining

»https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID···28370233

Every one started complaing about them to FCC and to GOVT Of USA.
Please beware of joiphone

Thanks
Kingfisher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19567529 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:48:26 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19566476 mazilo :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

1) the sales staff is not informed of their policy,
LOL ... This started to sound like statement made by Sen. Joe Biden that Bush is one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history since the President just learned only last week that a recent intelligence estimate says Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 (quoted from CNN). I hate to say this; however, I feel like we, Americans, are losing our own credibilities, let alone in the eyes of people around the world. Company like Joiphone as well as people like the US President who practice such deceptions should be taken down and charged for their malpractice. Unfortunately, what I see here in this country is only those small fishes who have done such a malpractice are the ones who got caught to face the laws while those big fishes are let lose and still running around practicing their deceptions on us.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19566476 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:11:07 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19566261 jeremyv : Maybe they need to look up for the word "UNLIMITED" in the dictionary.

Nonetheless an account just a few weeks old is not enough to be able to see or tell if its a non residential call pattern. They should give new customer at least 3 months.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19566261 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:24:06 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565671 anon : I try www.magicjack.com $40 with 1 year phone service.It works fine.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565671 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:39:05 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565606 freqz : And to think that their Unlimited Business is actually 2500 minutes.

In no means is this a plug for Viatalk ( But they so far are the only open company to tell what their unlimited actually is) but their business unlimited is 10,200 minutes a month.

10k minutes sounds more like a business line then 2500]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565606 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:20:51 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565544 meister_sd :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

They will be delighted to lose customers that are not profitable. That is the point.
While I agree to a certain degree with this statement, the bigger problem is that customers who may have tried this provider will be scared away.

I don't know what kind of numbers there are to back up this kind of practice (unknown/profitable/unprofitable) but I would think that they would want to retain customers and try to open dialog to either see if this is a fluke or convince them to upgrade to a plan that would be better for both parties. There was a marketing class I was in that said for every 10 positive it took one negative to balance the sheet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565544 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:05:37 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565345 freqz : Whatever it boils down to is very bad business practice, and it's clear they just don't want me as a customer :huh: Called a few minutes ago and asked again why I had the service shut down and was told to email their billing department, when I said I did they and they have not responded, they said, well there is nothing they can do for me anymore.

I can take the hint, and Yea, I've already disputed the charges, which already show as a credit, there is no way they can pull out of that one, It's all over their web site, Unlimited, their email exchange with me stating unlimited, my account information still on their site stating "Unlimited yearly", etc. I took all that information and "snagit'd and along with my dispute when I faxed it to them. Talking with the CC company fraud dept. they said it's a open and shut case.

The days of taking ones word have long passed. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565345 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:24:42 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565242 RockyBB :
said by freqz See Profile :

Stupid Me
several things could be in play here. none of them are your fault. 1) the sales staff is not informed of their policy, 2) their policy recently changed and they decided not to grandfather existing accounts or warn them of the policy change, or 3) sales staff are purposely not truthful, possibly because the individual rep gets paid for signing up customers. any of these resulted in an angry customer, and a posting about joiphone that will be googled and seen by future potential customers, likely scaring them away. All that adds up to STOOPID MANAGEMENT, not stoopid customers.
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565242 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:05:35 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565208 voiplover :
said by freqz See Profile :

... Why whould they Lie, or try to deceive someone.
Profits and sales commissions! :mad:

Get smart and back charge through your CC.

edit: P.S. Thanks for letting us know! ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565208 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:00:31 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565193 freqz : I guess I'm not the only one, Just did a search on here and found this.

»Re: New voip company name "joiphone"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565193 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:58:49 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565105 freqz : I think the thing here is The left hand (Sales) has no clue other than to get sales and say whatever.

Before I went with joiphone, I email and live chatted with a dozen or so compaines to actually find the truth behind this word "Unlimited" I would say 80% of the companies had minute limits averaging to 5000 min. an month. ( ViaTalk is at 5,100 min a month )

In my contact directly with Joiphone through their own ticket system I asked this specific question:

Is your unlimited plan unlimited with no hidden TOS terms. Ie. Anything over 5000 min. a month is considered over the max allowed in your term unlimited"

Their direct response was:

"We have a basic line that gives you 100 minutes of local and long distance calls and a REAL UNLIMITED line, that gives you as many calls all over US and Canada for Long Distance and Local Calls, Incomming and Outgoing calls."

Which in my thinking put them above the rest. STUPID ME, I guess there is no "REAL UNLIMITED" and yes, he did reply to me in all caps emphasizing the real unlimited. Other thing , Stupid Me again, thinking that their system is ticket tracked, Why whould they Lie, or try to deceive someone.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565105 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:43:58 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565058 tommy13v : Yeah, makes sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565058 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:36:13 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565030 TJ_in_IL : I agree with Mazilo.... UNLIMITED is just that.
I just looked over the terms of service, and they are very vauge. At any time they could determine that anything over 200 minutes a month is excessive residential use, and could start charging people. Sorry.... but not for me.
Enough already with the bait and switch or hidden meanings.
Joiphone is in the wrong. Sorry.

But hey... thats my 2 cents.

TJ
--
TeleBlend- Your Local Broadband Phone Company????]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19565030 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:31:11 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564987 voiplover : What Rocky just said.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564987 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:25:33 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564971 RockyBB :
said by tommy13v See Profile :

When are VoIP companies gonna learn that if they screw consumers with this unlimited verbiage that they are going to lose customers faster than they can sign them up?
They will be delighted to lose customers that are not profitable. That is the point.
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564971 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:23:35 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564913 tommy13v : When are VoIP companies gonna learn that if they screw consumers with this unlimited verbiage that they are going to lose customers faster than they can sign them up?
--
Click to Call for Asterisk servers
byodvox coming soon]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564913 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:16:58 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564829 mazilo :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

They have to pay to terminate all of your calls. Let's say they pay their underlying provider 1¢/minute to terminate traffic. 4,000 minutes (a full month at your rate) at 1¢/minute is $40.
IMHO, the company should not claim the service is UNLIMITED. The word UNLIMITED litterally means NO LIMITS! Regardless how much the VoSP pays to terminate the calls, the company should not put any limit when it claims the service is UNLIMITED. Have you heard of AT&T and/or other PSTN companies do this? I don't think so. Based on your explanation, the VoSP companies should increase their rate if they want to be in business to provide for UNLIMITED services to compensate for the lost or simply stop advertising with the UNLIMITED services. Otherwise, this practice of services is not fair to the end consumers regardless what your math explanation shown above.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564829 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:07:51 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564503 meister_sd :
said by RockyBB See Profile :

They have to pay to terminate all of your calls.
Well, I see two problems with this if the minutes are the sole reason for suspension.

1) They suspended his account without talking to him first.

2) They based this on ONE month's worth of billing. And considering this is the holidays - well.....

These "heavy usage" issues should be averaged out over a few months and not from a new signup. It sounds like the company didn't even give him the change to signup for the business rates/plan before suspending him!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564503 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:27:16 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564428 RockyBB : if you used 1960 minutes over a two week stretch, it sounds like you're a customer they don't want. Look at it like this. They have to pay to terminate all of your calls. Let's say they pay their underlying provider 1¢/minute to terminate traffic. 4,000 minutes (a full month at your rate) at 1¢/minute is $40. You're paying less than $40/month for your service no doubt. So that means that your provider will be losing money on you each month. So you have been fired. With usage like that, you will likely be fired from any of the cheap providers that are watching their customer base closely. You would be best off getting lost in the large customer base of Vonage or Packet 8. try downloading that free softphone product from www.icall.com (5 minute limit per call). maybe it will work better for your kids than it did for me.
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564428 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:16:24 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564224 freqz : That's the thing, the account in not even a month old yet. Looking back at the call log From Nov 14 to nov 30 1960 min. Mind you, 2 daughters 13 and 14 and a wife that likes the phone too . Plus a holiday weekend where the kids were not in school or wife at work.

Does that sound like a non residential calling pattern ? Are they basing their call pattern off a single adult household ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564224 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:48:00 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564000 RockyBB :
said by freqz See Profile :

So I promptly looked at my call logs. 345 min. for this month.
not to be a wise guy, but today is December 4. If I look up how many minutes I've used "this month" it would be for 4 days. Perhaps you could share with us how many minutes you used in the last full month...
--
"Teleblend has an agreement with the Assignee to solicit and support former SunRocket customers."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19564000 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:18:49 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563873 mazilo :
said by freqz See Profile :

..., No phone line no fax machine. So I had to sign up for a online fax service.
Sorry to hear what had happened to you, especially the VoSP company claimed to provide an UNLIMITED long distant calls to you.

I your CC company has toll-free FAX number, you can subscribe to FWD, SIPPhone (GizmoProject), and/or some free VoSPs that support free toll-free numbers to send FAXes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563873 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:00:48 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563287 freqz : Exactly what I'm doing. Only bad part is my CC company is asking me to fax them all the details, and screen shots of their web site ( No big deal really ) But the only thing is, No phone line no fax machine. So I had to sign up for a online fax service. Oh well, At least I'll have internet faxing now for a year ;) ( yea, sign up for a year of that too ) I just hate monthly statements and charges.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563287 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:32:10 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563203 slow mo : 345 min. for the month and it's in violation??? I would call my credit card company and ask for a dispute.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563203 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:16:08 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563011 freqz : Well, I truly think the only way to resolve this is a refund. Who in their right mind would stay after a incident like this ? If they go by "Cut them off first, maybe answer their questions, Only AFTER We take their money, but not before giving them the full run-a-round, to frustrate them to no end" Business practice route, I want nothing more to do with them!

There are way to many other compaines out there that would be happy to gain another customer!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19563011 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:42:58 EDT Re: Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19562915 CyberSultan : Ouch. Sorry to hear this. Hope you are able to get it resolved to your satisfaction.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19562915 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:27:56 EDT Beware: Joiphone http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19562891 freqz : Received this email yesterday:

Dear Customer,

Please be advised that the manner and call pattern of your residential
account is in violation of our Terms Of Service. In order to prevent
service interruption you will need to change your account to business
account where you can use 2500 min/mo/line there after you will be
charged 2 cents per minute.

Sincerely
Joiphone Billing

--------------------

So I promptly looked at my call logs. 345 min. for this month. So I called tried to get to someone in billing ( Because that's where the email came from) Could only get to support. I explain to support about the message and they told me I need to speak to billing, that they (Support) cannot do anything. I asked to be transfered to billing, and they said the only way to talk to billing is through email. So I sent them a email and I also included my very first contact from them about their service where they wrote "We have a basic line that gives you 100 minutes of local and long distance calls and a REAL UNLIMITED line, that gives you as many calls all over US and Canada for Long Distance and Local Calls, Incomming and Outgoing calls.".... No response from billing.

This morning my wife tried to call me and got the message "This account is blocked" I called support and they said, they cannot help. "You must contact billing, But you cannot talk to them you must email them"

So long story short, Still no service, Still no response from billing. Contact my Credit Card company since I paid a full year under 1 month ago !!!!

I highly doubt complaining to their parent company will get anywhere, I will try anyway.

:mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19562891 Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:23:46 EDT