wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to PGHammer
Re: Isps Build your Own!
said by PGHammer  :said by hottboiinnc :Telocity was bought by DirecTV not by Covad. But VZ wants to kill DSL's line sharing so they don't have a reason to build out FiOS/ FTTP. That's why they cherry pick. Not everyone is going to get FiOS and they know it and everyone else does to. So the markets that don't get DSL and the rates raised if VZ got what they wanted. Define cherry-picking, please. I live in Prince George's County, MD (a majority-minority county). FIOS is available in over half the county (in terms of area); in fact, it's been available in some areas of the county for over a year. I live in an area where FIOS has been available for over a year (no, I do *not* have the service myself, though I know of no less than four people that do in this subdivision, including my neighbor, who just had FIOS installed Saturday), and we had *no* DSL penetration prior to FIOS. Not merely *very little penetration*, but *no penetration at all* (the DSLAM servicing us was never equipped for DSL). However, FIOS penetration here is fast headed to the point of saturation (as it is, we're one of only six households on this street that *doesn't* have FIOS). No single provider has ever garnered over half the households on any street in this subdivision for either HSI or video/TV (the video providers servicing the street are FIOS TV, Comcast, D* and E*), and some households have multiple providers for video (the mutliple-provider households usually have a mix of D* and FIOS TV). FIOS Internet penetration has already exceeded that of CHSI by far (even though CHSI has been available in the development for six years plus, and DSL hasn't been available at all). How is this *cherry-picking*? Its funny how people constantly throw the term "cherry picking" around when they have no idea what they are talking about. In 99% of the cases, it refers to FIOS and the people are saying it simply because THEY cant get it! There are many lower income areas in the country that have FIOS, and in fact got it before higher income areas. I get so sick of the whiners on this site accusing companies of "cherry picking" simply because they cant pick up the phone and order a specific service. If there is an area that can be cost effectively served, while at the same time providing an appropriate rate of return, chances are it will eventually see the service in question. Thats not called "cherry picking", its called good business sense and it is driven by economics.
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :Telocity was bought by DirecTV not by Covad. But VZ wants to kill DSL's line sharing so they don't have a reason to build out FiOS/ FTTP. That's why they cherry pick. Not everyone is going to get FiOS and they know it and everyone else does to. So the markets that don't get DSL and the rates raised if VZ got what they wanted. Define cherry-picking, please.
I live in Prince George's County, MD (a majority-minority county). FIOS is available in over half the county (in terms of area); in fact, it's been available in some areas of the county for over a year. I live in an area where FIOS has been available for over a year (no, I do *not* have the service myself, though I know of no less than four people that do in this subdivision, including my neighbor, who just had FIOS installed Saturday), and we had *no* DSL penetration prior to FIOS. Not merely *very little penetration*, but *no penetration at all* (the DSLAM servicing us was never equipped for DSL). However, FIOS penetration here is fast headed to the point of saturation (as it is, we're one of only six households on this street that *doesn't* have FIOS). No single provider has ever garnered over half the households on any street in this subdivision for either HSI or video/TV (the video providers servicing the street are FIOS TV, Comcast, D* and E*), and some households have multiple providers for video (the mutliple-provider households usually have a mix of D* and FIOS TV). FIOS Internet penetration has already exceeded that of CHSI by far (even though CHSI has been available in the development for six years plus, and DSL hasn't been available at all). How is this *cherry-picking*? |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Mr_Northside
It's still not very different from line sharing. Another ISP is supplying you access and Verizon is delivering it. So yes, the local company or Verizon doesn't get totally screwed for building the infrastructure, yet other suppliers and the local company can compete on the supply side as needed. |
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Mr_Northside
@nauticom.net
| reply to BF69
Other companies and building their own infrastructure is the only way for real competition. In this day and age I don't think it would be as bad as having "50 bagillion wires" hanging. Not anymore. No one is going to build a competing POTS system necessitating huge trunk lines. It would either be some fiber-coax-hybrid or, if they're smart and do it right the first time, all FTTP. all of which can be strung together to look like one wire (or shoved thru conduit like Verizon does)
While some people may complain about the aesthetics of 3 or 4 or maybe even 5 (I doubt you'd get that much competition) companies having their own wires stringing about, it probably wouldn't look any worse than if you live near a CO where a lot of real thick wires branch out.
Admittedly, it would prove much of a challenge where wires are buried. |
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Mr_Northside
@nauticom.net
| reply to Jodokast96
Yes... but it's not total competition... It's only for "electric suppliers". Which for the average user means maybe saving a few bucks, or those people who want to purchase "clean energy" can select a company with windmills or some crap.
But if your power goes out, and you call your "choice company", they'll tell you to call the company that delivers it. This is where I think this competition is mostly "hype".
While everyone bitches about having to pay the electric bill, most people I know with serious complaints or issues have to do with service (power outages, customer service, etc...) At no point can you threaten these companies with taking your business elsewhere, because you're stuck with them |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
Should have said "can see" instead of "sees". Just a bad choice of words in a rush. Is DSL dead? No. Is it on it's way out? Yes, it's starting to see the beginning of it's end. It won't be long before it ceases to be any real form of competition in the broadband arena. Bottom line, you are talking about the here and now and are looking no further. Given what is deployed now, 5 years from now your 2-4mbps will be worth what dial up is now, nothing. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Outside of rural areas, almost anybody with a cable connection sees 20mbps+ connections now via PowerBoost, and it sells. That could possibly be the funniest thing I have heard in weeks. If you are under the impression that everyone with cable has a 20+Mbps connection then there is no point in continuing this conversation further.
said by Jodokast96 :DSL is dying in most places, and anything offering similar speeds won't last long either. Hell, why do you think nobody want's to touch BPL? Because it has no future. If the money was in 2-4mb connections, neither the cablecos nor Verizon would be rushing to get FIOS and DOCIS 3 out there. What?? DSL dying? People arent buying sub 4Mbps connections?? In all honesty the fastest selling/growing DSL tier is 768k!
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DotMac4
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
| reply to NewMariner
said by NewMariner :I agree with Verizon....Why should they have to subsidize a competitor? If the other ISPS want to compete, then build your own network! Its as simple as that... Oh you mean like how Pennsylvania taxpayers subsidized Verizon to the tune of $2.1 billion dollars?
When Verizon gives back the tax money they stole for fiber they never deployed, the FCC can consider eliminating DSL line sharing.
So long as Verizon wants to continue taking taxpayer money to fund their deployments, they can play by some simple rules. It's as simple as that...
Verizon can go shit in its hat. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
You are talking about two different things. That is geared more towards people on the go who want or need a usable connection. Certainly not a direct DSL replacement at 2-3 times the cost. Outside of rural areas, almost anybody with a cable connection sees 20mbps+ connections now via PowerBoost, and it sells. Add FIOS and the number increases, so no my statements are not unfounded. DSL is dying in most places, and anything offering similar speeds won't last long either. Hell, why do you think nobody want's to touch BPL? Because it has no future. If the money was in 2-4mb connections, neither the cablecos nor Verizon would be rushing to get FIOS and DOCIS 3 out there. |
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fedupwithvz
@avradionet.com | reply to NewMariner
So you want 15 different phone/cable lines coming to your house? Sounds kinda redundant to me. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. Thats funny, since (front page news here on DSLR) today Sprint just started rolling out their Xohm service (2Mbps to 4Mbps) that is meant for major cities. This product will initially be a direct competitor for fixed line (DSL, Cable) offerings. As I said before, the number of customers who can get (or need!) anything much above 3Mbps is so small as to be insignificant in the grander scheme of things. Most people in this country wont see 20Mbps for years to come, so your statements are completely unfounded.
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время индейки! |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it.  I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Yeah, business users are an easy case, especially here in NYC. I can't even keep track of the number of metro ethernet providers that go around lighting up whole buildings. It's a great plan and it's a much cheaper deployment than using the old telco-driven TDM stuff.
But residential? RCN is certainly not a business success. WISPs are great and practical for rural users that are willing to deal with slower than cable speeds because it beats dialup. Overbuilders in the residential market tend to fail - they simply don't have the existing voice or video market or the capital to sell at telco/cable internet "loss leader" pricing. |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. Exactly, and they won't anytime soon unless all of a sudden the FCC provides a ton of new frequencies to work in. You can only cram so much bandwidth and so many customers in one slice of over the air bandwidth... |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. What does that have to do with anything?? Such a small percentage of customers in the entire US get those speeds its pointless to even mention it. Somewhere in the 2Mbps area is the standard (if not much faster) that the typical customer looks for(or can get), and almost every wireless format can deliver that speed.
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to openbox9
Most of the time you don't even know you can pick your electric company like your gas company in most areas. Electric companies stay silent the same as gas companies have been lately. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | reply to supergirl
Telocity was bought by DirecTV not by Covad. But VZ wants to kill DSL's line sharing so they don't have a reason to build out FiOS/ FTTP. That's why they cherry pick. Not everyone is going to get FiOS and they know it and everyone else does to. So the markets that don't get DSL and the rates raised if VZ got what they wanted. |
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informpage
Never Be Satisfied
join:2003-07-09
Forest Hills, NY | reply to supergirl
Well since you didn't have the choice, must mean it doesn't exist. (or more likely you weren't aware of it's existence). |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to wifi4milez
Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to ieolus
Actually, you need to worry about the "who pays" first, because guess what, nothing happens without money. |
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