wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
Re: Isps Build your Own!
said by Jodokast96  :Keep thinking that the law would, in reality, allow them to get built, and I'll sell you my shiny new bridge. The law provides for equal access to all competitors; nothing less, nothing more. These specific laws arent meant to "allow" anything, they simply provide the opportunity for a company to do something. Any new competitor still needs to come up with the money and a business plan for it to work however, and that is the hardest part.
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время индейки! |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :No, but that way is more doable than everyone building their own. You know it and I know it, if another competitor came in and tried to build their own network using a duplicate infrastructure, they'd almost certainly not get approval. Somewhere you've got to find a middle ground, and it leans towards line sharing. The third parties aren't getting a free ride here, they still have to pay to even get in. Somehow the electric companies made it work. I've lived in about 12 states in my life and never have had a choice of electric companies. Now, some places have Co-ops as their power co. that has nothing to do with the big power company. Of course, the Co-ops here in Florida were out of power 2-3 times longer after a hurricane. I was out 5 days after Katrina and the Co-op area east of here was out for about 3 weeks. Co-ops are cheaper as long as no hurricanes. And, the co-op nearly went bankrupt as well.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :said by NOCMan :Also every time someone tries to overbuild the incumbent sues the crap out of them. Really? Please provide some lawsuit references involving incumbents and competitors (not municipalities) attempting to enter their market. Yea, I'd like to see that, too. What has RCN's experience in this regard been like? |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to supergirl
Quick search showed it in some form or another in NJ, VA, OH, TX, NY, MA, and PA. Not just for electric, but gas too. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to BF69
said by BF69 : Sorry those companies still have to PAY Verizon to use thier lines. Verizon isn't out anything. Verizon is out something when forced to resell at a price below their costs. In effect, gov't is mandating that Verizon SUBSIDIZE their competitors. |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :[ All companies (new, existing, future, etc.) are guaranteed access to public ROW by law. Thats not the issue, as any company is legally allowed to build a network. The issue usually comes down to cost; and do the new ISP's have the money needed to do so. We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Obviously you're not aware of how government works in the Peoples Republic (one party system) of Pittsburgh. I expect that Verizon will eventually bring the availability of every FIOS service to every resident within the city limits of Pittsburgh but not without city politicos at the behest of Comcast making sure it takes a lot longer and costs a lot more than it should. Why doesn't Comcast have to line share? Fortunately I live in a suburb. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to openbox9
Who pays for the dumb pipe? Doesn't matter at this point... first priority is to make the correct decision to move to dumb pipes to all homes. We can worry about who pays for it after.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this.
RCN? Yeah, right.
Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it.  |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by BF69 : Sorry those companies still have to PAY Verizon to use thier lines. Verizon isn't out anything. Verizon is out something when forced to resell at a price below their costs. In effect, gov't is mandating that Verizon SUBSIDIZE their competitors. That's a complete myth. Their wholesale products (ISP buys backhaul into their ATM network, sells same product but with own IP, support, ancillary services) cost MORE wholesale than their loss-leader retail packages.
Their tariffed items like line-share or "naked" ADSL/SDSL are priced near the retail of buying full DSL service from them, plus they make money on CO co-location and power (figure near 5 figures for a single rack in a CO).
These generate more revenue per-line than their own retail products.
Note that they never produce any numbers when they make statements like yours that they "lose money" on wholesale stuff - that's probably true in the UNE-P stuff, but NOT for DSL. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to sporkme
said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it. I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Lets not forget Clearwire, as they now offer service in many states and markets. The important thing to remember is that infrastructure doesnt always require digging up the streets, now more so than ever with all the new technologies available.
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время индейки! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to ieolus
Actually, you need to worry about the "who pays" first, because guess what, nothing happens without money. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to wifi4milez
Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. |
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informpage
Never Be Satisfied
join:2003-07-09
Forest Hills, NY | reply to supergirl
Well since you didn't have the choice, must mean it doesn't exist. (or more likely you weren't aware of it's existence). |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | reply to supergirl
Telocity was bought by DirecTV not by Covad. But VZ wants to kill DSL's line sharing so they don't have a reason to build out FiOS/ FTTP. That's why they cherry pick. Not everyone is going to get FiOS and they know it and everyone else does to. So the markets that don't get DSL and the rates raised if VZ got what they wanted. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to openbox9
Most of the time you don't even know you can pick your electric company like your gas company in most areas. Electric companies stay silent the same as gas companies have been lately. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. What does that have to do with anything?? Such a small percentage of customers in the entire US get those speeds its pointless to even mention it. Somewhere in the 2Mbps area is the standard (if not much faster) that the typical customer looks for(or can get), and almost every wireless format can deliver that speed.
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время индейки! |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. Exactly, and they won't anytime soon unless all of a sudden the FCC provides a ton of new frequencies to work in. You can only cram so much bandwidth and so many customers in one slice of over the air bandwidth... |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it. I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Yeah, business users are an easy case, especially here in NYC. I can't even keep track of the number of metro ethernet providers that go around lighting up whole buildings. It's a great plan and it's a much cheaper deployment than using the old telco-driven TDM stuff.
But residential? RCN is certainly not a business success. WISPs are great and practical for rural users that are willing to deal with slower than cable speeds because it beats dialup. Overbuilders in the residential market tend to fail - they simply don't have the existing voice or video market or the capital to sell at telco/cable internet "loss leader" pricing. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. Thats funny, since (front page news here on DSLR) today Sprint just started rolling out their Xohm service (2Mbps to 4Mbps) that is meant for major cities. This product will initially be a direct competitor for fixed line (DSL, Cable) offerings. As I said before, the number of customers who can get (or need!) anything much above 3Mbps is so small as to be insignificant in the grander scheme of things. Most people in this country wont see 20Mbps for years to come, so your statements are completely unfounded.
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время индейки! |
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