Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to NewMariner
Re: Isps Build your Own!
said by NewMariner  :I agree with Verizon....Why should they have to subsidize a competitor? If the other ISPS want to compete, then build your own network! Its as simple as that... So if 15 competitors each came in to build their, where the hell to you expect them to build it? Poles 5 deep from the street? Places with underground utlities would be real fun to watch getting deployed too. Yeah, just what anyone wants, 15 different companies coming in and tearing my street. Not to mention the fact of whether the PUCs would even let them. Easier said than done my friend. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
 ·Mediacom
| said by Jodokast96 :Easier said than done my friend. So is line sharing and turning a sufficient profit. What is your suggestion? Let me guess, telecoms be a dumb pipe, leasing their cable to any ISP that wants in. Or, municipalities purchase the infrastructure from the telecoms and then they become the dumb pipe leasing to everyone? That sounds great, but it is easier said than done when you look at the financials involved. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| No, but that way is more doable than everyone building their own. You know it and I know it, if another competitor came in and tried to build their own network using a duplicate infrastructure, they'd almost certainly not get approval. Somewhere you've got to find a middle ground, and it leans towards line sharing. The third parties aren't getting a free ride here, they still have to pay to even get in. Somehow the electric companies made it work. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| said by Jodokast96 :Somehow the electric companies made it work. How so? I don't have a choice in electrical companies.
The answer is competition between wireless (3G/4G, WISP, WiMax, etc.), telecom, cable, satellite. You don't need 5 sets of cable hanging of off poles to have competition. And you don't need to share your infrastructure with competitors to facilitate competition. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | reply to openbox9
That is EXACTLY the way to do it! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Which, and who pays for it? |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to openbox9
Uh, yeah, in a lot of markets you do. The company producing the energy charges their supply charge and then the local company charges a distribution charge, which is the same no matter the supplier. Even if your local company is your supplier, the bill is broken down the same way. Similar to long distance. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | I've never had a choice of electric companies in the five locations I've lived in the states. |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :said by NewMariner :I agree with Verizon....Why should they have to subsidize a competitor? If the other ISPS want to compete, then build your own network! Its as simple as that... So if 15 competitors each came in to build their, where the hell to you expect them to build it? Poles 5 deep from the street? Places with underground utlities would be real fun to watch getting deployed too. Yeah, just what anyone wants, 15 different companies coming in and tearing my street. Not to mention the fact of whether the PUCs would even let them. Easier said than done my friend. All companies (new, existing, future, etc.) are guaranteed access to public ROW by law. Thats not the issue, as any company is legally allowed to build a network. The issue usually comes down to cost; and do the new ISP's have the money needed to do so. We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable.
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время индейки! |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Keep thinking that the law would, in reality, allow them to get built, and I'll sell you my shiny new bridge. |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by Jodokast96 :Keep thinking that the law would, in reality, allow them to get built, and I'll sell you my shiny new bridge. The law provides for equal access to all competitors; nothing less, nothing more. These specific laws arent meant to "allow" anything, they simply provide the opportunity for a company to do something. Any new competitor still needs to come up with the money and a business plan for it to work however, and that is the hardest part.
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время индейки! |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
·Skype
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :No, but that way is more doable than everyone building their own. You know it and I know it, if another competitor came in and tried to build their own network using a duplicate infrastructure, they'd almost certainly not get approval. Somewhere you've got to find a middle ground, and it leans towards line sharing. The third parties aren't getting a free ride here, they still have to pay to even get in. Somehow the electric companies made it work. I've lived in about 12 states in my life and never have had a choice of electric companies. Now, some places have Co-ops as their power co. that has nothing to do with the big power company. Of course, the Co-ops here in Florida were out of power 2-3 times longer after a hurricane. I was out 5 days after Katrina and the Co-op area east of here was out for about 3 weeks. Co-ops are cheaper as long as no hurricanes. And, the co-op nearly went bankrupt as well.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Quick search showed it in some form or another in NJ, VA, OH, TX, NY, MA, and PA. Not just for electric, but gas too. |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :[ All companies (new, existing, future, etc.) are guaranteed access to public ROW by law. Thats not the issue, as any company is legally allowed to build a network. The issue usually comes down to cost; and do the new ISP's have the money needed to do so. We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Obviously you're not aware of how government works in the Peoples Republic (one party system) of Pittsburgh. I expect that Verizon will eventually bring the availability of every FIOS service to every resident within the city limits of Pittsburgh but not without city politicos at the behest of Comcast making sure it takes a lot longer and costs a lot more than it should. Why doesn't Comcast have to line share? Fortunately I live in a suburb. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to openbox9
Who pays for the dumb pipe? Doesn't matter at this point... first priority is to make the correct decision to move to dumb pipes to all homes. We can worry about who pays for it after.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this.
RCN? Yeah, right.
Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it.  |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it. I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Lets not forget Clearwire, as they now offer service in many states and markets. The important thing to remember is that infrastructure doesnt always require digging up the streets, now more so than ever with all the new technologies available.
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время индейки! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | reply to ieolus
Actually, you need to worry about the "who pays" first, because guess what, nothing happens without money. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to wifi4milez
Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. |
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informpage
Never Be Satisfied
join:2003-07-09
Forest Hills, NY | reply to supergirl
Well since you didn't have the choice, must mean it doesn't exist. (or more likely you weren't aware of it's existence). |
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