Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Mr_Northside
Re: Isps Build your Own!
It's still not very different from line sharing. Another ISP is supplying you access and Verizon is delivering it. So yes, the local company or Verizon doesn't get totally screwed for building the infrastructure, yet other suppliers and the local company can compete on the supply side as needed. |
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Mr_Northside
@nauticom.net
| reply to Jodokast96
Yes... but it's not total competition... It's only for "electric suppliers". Which for the average user means maybe saving a few bucks, or those people who want to purchase "clean energy" can select a company with windmills or some crap.
But if your power goes out, and you call your "choice company", they'll tell you to call the company that delivers it. This is where I think this competition is mostly "hype".
While everyone bitches about having to pay the electric bill, most people I know with serious complaints or issues have to do with service (power outages, customer service, etc...) At no point can you threaten these companies with taking your business elsewhere, because you're stuck with them |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
Should have said "can see" instead of "sees". Just a bad choice of words in a rush. Is DSL dead? No. Is it on it's way out? Yes, it's starting to see the beginning of it's end. It won't be long before it ceases to be any real form of competition in the broadband arena. Bottom line, you are talking about the here and now and are looking no further. Given what is deployed now, 5 years from now your 2-4mbps will be worth what dial up is now, nothing. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96  :Outside of rural areas, almost anybody with a cable connection sees 20mbps+ connections now via PowerBoost, and it sells. That could possibly be the funniest thing I have heard in weeks. If you are under the impression that everyone with cable has a 20+Mbps connection then there is no point in continuing this conversation further.
said by Jodokast96 :DSL is dying in most places, and anything offering similar speeds won't last long either. Hell, why do you think nobody want's to touch BPL? Because it has no future. If the money was in 2-4mb connections, neither the cablecos nor Verizon would be rushing to get FIOS and DOCIS 3 out there. What?? DSL dying? People arent buying sub 4Mbps connections?? In all honesty the fastest selling/growing DSL tier is 768k!
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время индейки! |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
You are talking about two different things. That is geared more towards people on the go who want or need a usable connection. Certainly not a direct DSL replacement at 2-3 times the cost. Outside of rural areas, almost anybody with a cable connection sees 20mbps+ connections now via PowerBoost, and it sells. Add FIOS and the number increases, so no my statements are not unfounded. DSL is dying in most places, and anything offering similar speeds won't last long either. Hell, why do you think nobody want's to touch BPL? Because it has no future. If the money was in 2-4mb connections, neither the cablecos nor Verizon would be rushing to get FIOS and DOCIS 3 out there. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. Thats funny, since (front page news here on DSLR) today Sprint just started rolling out their Xohm service (2Mbps to 4Mbps) that is meant for major cities. This product will initially be a direct competitor for fixed line (DSL, Cable) offerings. As I said before, the number of customers who can get (or need!) anything much above 3Mbps is so small as to be insignificant in the grander scheme of things. Most people in this country wont see 20Mbps for years to come, so your statements are completely unfounded.
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время индейки! |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it.  I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Yeah, business users are an easy case, especially here in NYC. I can't even keep track of the number of metro ethernet providers that go around lighting up whole buildings. It's a great plan and it's a much cheaper deployment than using the old telco-driven TDM stuff.
But residential? RCN is certainly not a business success. WISPs are great and practical for rural users that are willing to deal with slower than cable speeds because it beats dialup. Overbuilders in the residential market tend to fail - they simply don't have the existing voice or video market or the capital to sell at telco/cable internet "loss leader" pricing. |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. Exactly, and they won't anytime soon unless all of a sudden the FCC provides a ton of new frequencies to work in. You can only cram so much bandwidth and so many customers in one slice of over the air bandwidth... |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wifi4milez
The point is, it's here now, and future deployments will be even faster. If you can't offer it, you won't last very long. The slowest cable offerings already surpass it, and while it's the norm for DSL, it probably doesn't have much more than a few years left except in rural areas. Being deployed is not the same as competition. That's like saying dial up is competing with cable. Not happening. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. What does that have to do with anything?? Such a small percentage of customers in the entire US get those speeds its pointless to even mention it. Somewhere in the 2Mbps area is the standard (if not much faster) that the typical customer looks for(or can get), and almost every wireless format can deliver that speed.
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время индейки! |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to openbox9
Most of the time you don't even know you can pick your electric company like your gas company in most areas. Electric companies stay silent the same as gas companies have been lately. |
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informpage
Never Be Satisfied
join:2003-07-09
Forest Hills, NY | reply to supergirl
Well since you didn't have the choice, must mean it doesn't exist. (or more likely you weren't aware of it's existence). |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to wifi4milez
Yeah, because wireless providers abound offering 20-50mbps. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to ieolus
Actually, you need to worry about the "who pays" first, because guess what, nothing happens without money. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to sporkme
said by sporkme :said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this. RCN? Yeah, right. Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it. I will admit that my first hand experience is limited to the business market only. Although I realize there are differences, I can point to a number of companies who have been quite successful in that space by building their own infrastructure. I would say the biggest success story in the residential market would be cable. They came into a "one party market" and have no eclipsed the telcos in many areas. There are also many smaller wireless ISP's (both 802.11x and Wimax) who provide service to residential users. Lets not forget Clearwire, as they now offer service in many states and markets. The important thing to remember is that infrastructure doesnt always require digging up the streets, now more so than ever with all the new technologies available.
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время индейки! |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez : We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Name a residential ISP that's turning a profit doing this.
RCN? Yeah, right.
Unless of course you're being sane and calling Covad's huge investment in co-locating DSLAMs in COs "infrastructure", but I doubt it. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to openbox9
Who pays for the dumb pipe? Doesn't matter at this point... first priority is to make the correct decision to move to dumb pipes to all homes. We can worry about who pays for it after.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :[ All companies (new, existing, future, etc.) are guaranteed access to public ROW by law. Thats not the issue, as any company is legally allowed to build a network. The issue usually comes down to cost; and do the new ISP's have the money needed to do so. We have seen time and time again that companies who chose to actually build their own infrastructure have done quite well, so it is very doable. Obviously you're not aware of how government works in the Peoples Republic (one party system) of Pittsburgh. I expect that Verizon will eventually bring the availability of every FIOS service to every resident within the city limits of Pittsburgh but not without city politicos at the behest of Comcast making sure it takes a lot longer and costs a lot more than it should. Why doesn't Comcast have to line share? Fortunately I live in a suburb. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | reply to supergirl
Quick search showed it in some form or another in NJ, VA, OH, TX, NY, MA, and PA. Not just for electric, but gas too. |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :No, but that way is more doable than everyone building their own. You know it and I know it, if another competitor came in and tried to build their own network using a duplicate infrastructure, they'd almost certainly not get approval. Somewhere you've got to find a middle ground, and it leans towards line sharing. The third parties aren't getting a free ride here, they still have to pay to even get in. Somehow the electric companies made it work. I've lived in about 12 states in my life and never have had a choice of electric companies. Now, some places have Co-ops as their power co. that has nothing to do with the big power company. Of course, the Co-ops here in Florida were out of power 2-3 times longer after a hurricane. I was out 5 days after Katrina and the Co-op area east of here was out for about 3 weeks. Co-ops are cheaper as long as no hurricanes. And, the co-op nearly went bankrupt as well.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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