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Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1
reply to hobgoblin

Re: [TWC] Time Warner Navigator

said by hobgoblin:

I would be interested in how many people use the search feature, I never have.

Hob

I used it exactly once. I have this strange unhealthy obsession with the movie Phone Booth, which seems like it used to be on the Cinemax and HBO channels a few times a week. A few months ago I was having withdrawals and did a search for that movie. That’s the only time I ever used the search feature.
--
For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track.


bluepoint

join:2001-03-24
True, but the point is, if the guide comes with a search feature, it might as well work. Whoever, wrote the guide thinks it's a useful feature.

Satch

join:2009-11-25

1 edit
said by bluepoint:

True, but the point is, if the guide comes with a search feature, it might as well work. Whoever, wrote the guide thinks it's a useful feature.

I just don't like TWC taking away features in the Navigator system that Passport had ten years ago. There isn't a modern competitor guide on the planet that does not have the ability to search by keywords. That feature should be there, for everyone, on all the boxes. Several family members and friends have missed shows, especially sports programming because of the lack of a keyword search on the TWC Navigator system.

I don't even need or particularly have a use for a fancy box and fancy features. However, keyword search is absolutely essential for sports programs or general topics that could be entered as keywords. I remember when I first found it on Passport. I thought it was so cool because one word in the search box (known as the keyword) covers everything in the system related to that topic. Customers could find shows related to their search words that they would never have found with Title Search alone. And if you need to find a Title, keyword search covers that as well!

With Keyword Search, whatever information you are seeking on the keyboard gets returned to you. I miss it immensely from the days of the Passport software.

Satch

Satch

join:2009-11-25
San Diego Samsung boxes got a Middleware update to fix some of ODN 5.2.9's problems. Guess is that it could be a prep for ODN 6.0. Don't know what other areas got this update. The Middleware update is ODN 5.2.8. Don't know about the SA-C's/Cisco's.

Satch


Vertigo

@myvzw.com
The Motorola MOCA boxes in LA choked on the update, but over a week later appear to be fixed. It will be interesting to see what's coming next.


Elyria

join:2011-10-12
Elyria, OH
reply to Satch

I just don't like TWC taking away features in the Navigator system that Passport had ten years ago.

Just give us a guide that operates [and looks] like an advanced piece of tech. Why, after all this time,TW'ers still pushing out such a horrible navigator. Taking features "away" seems counter productive, considering they've yet to "put in" the necessary programming


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
You make it sound as if there's a large nunber of guides to choose from. What advanced guide software is out there that works with all the services TWC offers? VOD, SDV, Start Over, Look Back, CID, DVR, etc. What guide works on both Motorola and Cisco based boxes?

Many EPG guide features are patented and protected aggressively. TiVo, Rovi, and others are involved in a long series of lawsuits over simple guide features such as grid displays, search functions, "Season Pass" features, and many others.

Making a decent guide that meets all the needed criteria and has the UI/features users want has been a tough job for all the EPG makers. Verizon, Comcast, Cox, and others have their own problems too.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Satch

join:2009-11-25
said by DrDrew:

You make it sound as if there's a large nunber of guides to choose from. What advanced guide software is out there that works with all the services TWC offers? VOD, SDV, Start Over, Look Back, CID, DVR, etc. What guide works on both Motorola and Cisco based boxes?

Many EPG guide features are patented and protected aggressively. TiVo, Rovi, and others are involved in a long series of lawsuits over simple guide features such as grid displays, search functions, "Season Pass" features, and many others.

Making a decent guide that meets all the needed criteria and has the UI/features users want has been a tough job for all the EPG makers. Verizon, Comcast, Cox, and others have their own problems too.

Good point.

Satch


rv65
Premium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1
reply to Satch
Cisco boxes also got an update as well. MW for Cisco is OHT2.0.0.2001


rv65
Premium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1
Samsung: v5.0.2.8
Cisco: OHT2.0.0.2001


Crapigator

@rr.com
reply to DrDrew
said by DrDrew:

You make it sound as if there's a large nunber of guides to choose from. What advanced guide software is out there that works with all the services TWC offers? VOD, SDV, Start Over, Look Back, CID, DVR, etc. What guide works on both Motorola and Cisco based boxes?

Many EPG guide features are patented and protected aggressively. TiVo, Rovi, and others are involved in a long series of lawsuits over simple guide features such as grid displays, search functions, "Season Pass" features, and many others.

Making a decent guide that meets all the needed criteria and has the UI/features users want has been a tough job for all the EPG makers. Verizon, Comcast, Cox, and others have their own problems too.

Arris Gateway with Moxi is one and others could easily have the middleware features added. SARA had CID on TV and Start Over. Navigator has been in developement and deployment for over 6 YEARS! The issue is TWC blocking access to many features. I guarantee Tivo could make a box that didn't need a tuning adapter and had VOD plus all the other TWC features if TWC would allow it. They don't want people using Tivo's. They want you paying $10 a month plus DVR fee for their piece of junk. TWC refuses to license stable and fully functional software in lieu of constantly patching Navigator and doing things like changing the color to fool the simpletons into thinking they got something exciting and new.

You site all the providers whom had trouble making their own GUI - EXACTLY!!! LEAVE IT TO THE PROS WHO DO IT RIGHT!!! Pass port did things 10 years ago Navigator can't do after 6 years in the field. That's pathetic. Aptiv, Tivo, Arris/Moxi all specialize in making GUI's - let them do it and save your customers the headaches.

Take a look at Buckeye Cable running Moxi's - do you see forums with 100's of pages of complaints and problems? No, you know why you don't - BECAUSE IT WORKS. They had initial issues that were cleared after a firmware update. TWC can't even get the HDMI to function stable. Tivo forums aren't loaded with complaints - and most complaints are how TWC cripples them by requiring TA's and not allowing for two way communication. At least Comcast is starting to allow Tivo's access to VOD.

Time Warner has proven one thing. They don't care. They lost over half a million video subs last quarter but still turned a mean profit. They have all but given up on the cable portion of their service.

Satch

join:2009-11-25

1 recommendation

said by Crapigator :

said by DrDrew:

You make it sound as if there's a large nunber of guides to choose from. What advanced guide software is out there that works with all the services TWC offers? VOD, SDV, Start Over, Look Back, CID, DVR, etc. What guide works on both Motorola and Cisco based boxes?

Many EPG guide features are patented and protected aggressively. TiVo, Rovi, and others are involved in a long series of lawsuits over simple guide features such as grid displays, search functions, "Season Pass" features, and many others.

Making a decent guide that meets all the needed criteria and has the UI/features users want has been a tough job for all the EPG makers. Verizon, Comcast, Cox, and others have their own problems too.

Arris Gateway with Moxi is one and others could easily have the middleware features added. SARA had CID on TV and Start Over. Navigator has been in developement and deployment for over 6 YEARS! The issue is TWC blocking access to many features. I guarantee Tivo could make a box that didn't need a tuning adapter and had VOD plus all the other TWC features if TWC would allow it. They don't want people using Tivo's. They want you paying $10 a month plus DVR fee for their piece of junk. TWC refuses to license stable and fully functional software in lieu of constantly patching Navigator and doing things like changing the color to fool the simpletons into thinking they got something exciting and new.

You site all the providers whom had trouble making their own GUI - EXACTLY!!! LEAVE IT TO THE PROS WHO DO IT RIGHT!!! Pass port did things 10 years ago Navigator can't do after 6 years in the field. That's pathetic. Aptiv, Tivo, Arris/Moxi all specialize in making GUI's - let them do it and save your customers the headaches.

Take a look at Buckeye Cable running Moxi's - do you see forums with 100's of pages of complaints and problems? No, you know why you don't - BECAUSE IT WORKS. They had initial issues that were cleared after a firmware update. TWC can't even get the HDMI to function stable. Tivo forums aren't loaded with complaints - and most complaints are how TWC cripples them by requiring TA's and not allowing for two way communication. At least Comcast is starting to allow Tivo's access to VOD.

Time Warner has proven one thing. They don't care. They lost over half a million video subs last quarter but still turned a mean profit. They have all but given up on the cable portion of their service.

Exactly!

TWC also does not realize the money lost do to Navigator's problems. The guide was supposed to be designed in house to "save money." However, it has cost TWC loss of subscribers where they have to raise rates on box rentals to try to compensate for the mediocre standards concerning the Navigator Guide.

Getting professional program guide developers to create a quality IPG means better performance from the guide, fewer calls and box swaps, which leads to greater employee and customer satisfaction.

I would like to examine the statistics of TWC Navigator problems concerning calls for a period of one year concerning cable TV problems because of the Navigator Guide. Now, compare those numbers to Moxi's DVR service calls, or Direct TV with a Tivo, over the same period of time. I would suspect that for every one service call to Tivo about a Program Guide issue, there are five to ten calls to TWC about Navigator problems. This is the result when you think cheap and hire independent contractors in a cost-cutting measure, rather than competent program developers who can do a great guide. TWC Navigator remains the biggest catastrophic mistake this company has ever produced.

The quality of TWC is outstanding in other places such as Phone, Internet, and Mobile Technologies. With the proper people working on the Navigator Guide, that software could be just as good as Tivo or Direct-TV, or even Moi, (If TWC would accept the Arris/Moxi DVR as a solution.) Let the professionals who know program guides come in and do an IPG that reflects modern technology and high standards of performance and reliability. The Navigator programers I am sure are nice people and all that. But I think they only have limited knowledge and experience with program guide development.

The TWC Managers think metaphorically that TWC is the advanced calculus of program guides. However, I think the people who are doing the coding and testing are C+ Algebra students. The Navigator programers might WANT to do better. But I think corporate is saying, "Just do your best. 90% of the customers don't know the difference anyway." Maybe so, But shouldn't us subscribers who have been with TWC for 15-25 years deserve the kind of modern and reliable guide that shows our patronage to the company? If TWC is serious about making Navigator work well and be modern, they have to bring in specialized program guide people who can make it happen. Can these C+ Algebra programers, and bring in the "A" grade Calculus Tivo, Arris, or even Passport pros, who can make the Navigator the kind of reliable and modern software that customers should expect from a company that provides among the best phone and Internet service anywhere!

Satch


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
reply to Crapigator
1. Arris Gateway with Moxi, is new and relatively untested in real world only being issued recently by some smaller operators in the last several months and as you admit they've already had some problems. Older Moxi boxes were well known to have over heating issues and some other random recording issues, I had 3 die on me. Moxi also requires new boxes and isn't usable on existing Motorola or Cisco based boxes. Moxi historically has required separate back end systems and connections to Moxi's servers to properly authorize and load software. It was a headache to deal with on the provider side.

2. SARA looks like ass and only works on Cisco boxes. I have it at home right now and really wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's a basic guide that is older and less functional than iGuide.

3. Tivo has had YEARS to produce a spec compliant 2-way compatible cable box, they don't want to. The VOD client software comes from the VOD system vendors, not TWC. The VOD system vendors would have to license the software after making it for Tivos.

Did you totally miss or ignore the part I wrote about being compatible with existing Motorola or Cisco boxes? The cable companies have BILLIONs wrapped up in cable box inventory they aren't going to throw away for a proprietary box that only one vendor is making. They've been burned by that before. They want a standard box available from several makers that is compatible with what ever guide they want to put on it. They want a box already compatible with the billions they have invested in back end billing and security systems.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
said by DrDrew:

Moxi also requires new boxes and isn't usable on existing Motorola or Cisco based boxes.

Did you totally miss or ignore the part I wrote about being compatible with existing Motorola or Cisco boxes?

But you CAN very much use the Arris Gateway/Players on Moto headends; all the cable ops using it DO. (can't speak for SA/Cisco headends, but one would think that with the proper SA/Cisco cablecard, it can be)
So, what is the big deal with ANY operator such as a Comcast, TWC, etc. simply using the Arris system for their whole house DVR offering?

Or, are you guys talking about actually putting the Arris EPG software on any/all existing Moto/Cisco boxes, including non-DVR boxes?


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
said by dishrich:

Or, are you guys talking about actually putting the Arris EPG software on any/all existing Moto/Cisco boxes, including non-DVR boxes?

That's what would be required to replace Navigator... to be able to use another EPG on both Motorola and Cisco headends, on DVR and non-DVR boxes.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Satch

join:2009-11-25
I did have a recent Power On issue where the box did not power on but got stuck in the 1080/720/420 resolution cycle and the light went out. Pressing the CBL button turned the box on normally. I think this is an HDMI issue, although I usually get the "Mode Not Supported" on the screen, but not this time. This is my first issue with this for at least six months.

Sources told me that the HDMI issue will be much better when the boxes move to a cloud-based system. HDMI has improved for me since the ODN 5.2.09 update. I wonder if ODN 6.0 will further improve this? The sensors for Power On/and resolution cycle at power on, their synchronization has improved, but is still not where it should be. I have the box Resolution always outputted to 1080.

If the box does not come on or there is no picture, sometimes you can turn the set off for 30 seconds with the power button and back on again, or try the following:

1.) If your remote is programed to control both the TV/Box with the Power Button and one device does not go on, just hit the button for the device in question to turn it on about 10 seconds or so after the sequence is complete.

2.) Get a "Mode Not Supported Error?" If your Video Source button is programmed, press that to cycle through the other settings on your TV. When you get to "Cable" or "STB" using the video source button, stop and wait for about 10 seconds, the picture should reappear.

3.) Check your HDMI cable connection. If you are always getting "Mode Not Supported Errors" try a new HDMI cable or switch to Component Cable.

4.) If that does not work, Power off the box, unplug the box, wait 30 seconds, and plug it back in. Proceed with the cold reboot, waiting until the clock shows back on the display for about 10 seconds..

5.) If problems persist, check to see your Audio/Video settings are correct. Try Component Cables, check box/TV settings so that they match.

6.) If none of that works, a service call may be needed.

Satch

Satch

join:2009-11-25
Mods or Admin,

Might you consider pinning this topic for easy access? Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Satch


91862239
Premium
join:2011-10-15
Brownsville, TX
reply to cypherstream
is there any way to fix the box not authorized without having to call in ?


Crapigator

@rr.com
reply to DrDrew
said by DrDrew:

1. Arris Gateway with Moxi, is new and relatively untested in real world only being issued recently by some smaller operators in the last several months and as you admit they've already had some problems. Older Moxi boxes were well known to have over heating issues and some other random recording issues, I had 3 die on me. Moxi also requires new boxes and isn't usable on existing Motorola or Cisco based boxes. Moxi historically has required separate back end systems and connections to Moxi's servers to properly authorize and load software. It was a headache to deal with on the provider side.

2. SARA looks like ass and only works on Cisco boxes. I have it at home right now and really wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's a basic guide that is older and less functional than iGuide.

3. Tivo has had YEARS to produce a spec compliant 2-way compatible cable box, they don't want to. The VOD client software comes from the VOD system vendors, not TWC. The VOD system vendors would have to license the software after making it for Tivos.

Did you totally miss or ignore the part I wrote about being compatible with existing Motorola or Cisco boxes? The cable companies have BILLIONs wrapped up in cable box inventory they aren't going to throw away for a proprietary box that only one vendor is making. They've been burned by that before. They want a standard box available from several makers that is compatible with what ever guide they want to put on it. They want a box already compatible with the billions they have invested in back end billing and security systems.

So, Arris is junk because they had an initial deployment glitch that was fixed after ONE update. Navigator is buggy as hell after 6 years. You are also comparing the retail Moxi to the Arris Gateway loaded with the Moxi GUI. It's not the same piece of hardware.

SARA does look like crap, but it worked.

Tivo has presented numerous solutions (even at FCC hearings) about being stonewalled by the MSO's. The best idea they had was for an IP backchannel which would have eliminated the need for a TA. Also, it was the cable companies that killed Tru2Way by not supporting it. That's why Panasonic stopped making sets with it.

They can have compatible boxes all day long, just get a GUI that WORKS!


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
said by Crapigator :

Tivo has presented numerous solutions (even at FCC hearings) about being stonewalled by the MSO's.
...
Also, it was the cable companies that killed Tru2Way by not supporting it.
...
They can have compatible boxes all day long, just get a GUI that WORKS!

Tivo keeps trying to push their own way of doing things and not use the standards already available. Navigator is a tru2way EPG. The "ODN" boxes Navigator runs on are all tru2way compatible. As soon as Tivo finishes their tru2way compatible EPG, it can be an option to replace Navigator.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Satch

join:2009-11-25
said by DrDrew:

said by Crapigator :

Tivo has presented numerous solutions (even at FCC hearings) about being stonewalled by the MSO's.
...
Also, it was the cable companies that killed Tru2Way by not supporting it.
...
They can have compatible boxes all day long, just get a GUI that WORKS!

Tivo keeps trying to push their own way of doing things and not use the standards already available. Navigator is a tru2way EPG. The "ODN" boxes Navigator runs on are all tru2way compatible. As soon as Tivo finishes their tru2way compatible EPG, it can be an option to replace Navigator.

It could be. But won't. TWC will want too much money for the Tivo guys to come in and do it right.

Satch


Bluphan

@rr.com
reply to cypherstream
In my recording options, I scheduled a new series that begins next week. When I then check all my scheduled recordings for next week, it shows a symbol I've never seen to the left of the new series. It looks like a circle with a + inside it. None of the other series have any such symbol. Does anyone know what that symbol represents? Thanks.

Satch

join:2009-11-25
said by Bluphan :

In my recording options, I scheduled a new series that begins next week. When I then check all my scheduled recordings for next week, it shows a symbol I've never seen to the left of the new series. It looks like a circle with a + inside it. None of the other series have any such symbol. Does anyone know what that symbol represents? Thanks.

It sounds like a "Do Not Delete" Symbol. (This can be changed in settings.) Is this what you are seeing in the DVR List? Press LIST on Remote. Go to Scheduled Recordings. Do you see it there? Go to Series Manager, do you see it there?

Satch

Satch

join:2009-11-25
Cold reboot tonight,

Box is slower than snails.

Jack


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
"Cold reboot tonight,"

What is the difference between a cold reboot and a hot one?

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Satch

join:2009-11-25
said by hobgoblin:

"Cold reboot tonight,"

What is the difference between a cold reboot and a hot one?

Hob

Sup Hobs?

I wish my reboots were hot, but unfortunately all I know are cold (and frustrating) ones. UGGHHHH!

On the serious side though, I heard from a customer who had a truck role. The tech said that ODN 6.0 is supposed to fix a lot of these slowdown problems. He said it is gonna hit very soon. He also said that some areas have it now, but I have not heard any mainstream areas that have it yet.

Satch


Bluphan

@rr.com
reply to Satch
said by Satch:

It sounds like a "Do Not Delete" Symbol. (This can be changed in settings.) Is this what you are seeing in the DVR List? Press LIST on Remote. Go to Scheduled Recordings. Do you see it there? Go to Series Manager, do you see it there?

Yes, that what it was. I had never seen that before. I changed it to "until space is needed." Thanks!


Crapigator

@rr.com
said by Bluphan :

said by Satch:

It sounds like a "Do Not Delete" Symbol. (This can be changed in settings.) Is this what you are seeing in the DVR List? Press LIST on Remote. Go to Scheduled Recordings. Do you see it there? Go to Series Manager, do you see it there?

Yes, that what it was. I had never seen that before. I changed it to "until space is needed." Thanks!

Don't worry, Navigator has the knack for deleting things on its own anyway. It will probably do it more now that you flagged it as "Until Space Is Needed" because the DVR can't accurately keep track of used space.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
"Don't worry, Navigator has the knack for deleting things on its own anyway. It will probably do it more now that you flagged it as "Until Space Is Needed" because the DVR can't accurately keep track of used space. "

Interesting, I have never had ANY of the multitude of DVR's that I have had delete anything. I really wish you would get a new hobby that didn't involve spreading misinformation in here.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Crapigator

@rr.com
said by hobgoblin:

"Don't worry, Navigator has the knack for deleting things on its own anyway. It will probably do it more now that you flagged it as "Until Space Is Needed" because the DVR can't accurately keep track of used space. "

Interesting, I have never had ANY of the multitude of DVR's that I have had delete anything. I really wish you would get a new hobby that didn't involve spreading misinformation in here.

Hob

Accurate reporting of known issues in not misinformation. Some people are lucky enough to not have them or fail to realize they actually do have them. Navigator reporting space incorrectly is a widely known issue. Many at AVS are reporting randomly erased shows as well. It stands to reason that if the DVR cannot accurately track used space and thinks it's full when it is in fact not, then by flagging shows "Delete When Space Needed" stands a good chance of wiping recordings. Problem here is the fanboys don't want to hear the facts.