Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
Re: Fanatics said by rf_engineer:This was one example that was cited. I believe there were other complaints from other people. Reference please. The article under discussion said they received 99 complaints from one person.
Mark |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
said by rf_engineer: there is no shrinking interest in HF spectrum (especially after 9/11). Really? I've been hearing the number of license holders has been going *down*. That's one of the reasons Morse Code was dropped as a requirement, to bring more people in. (I've also heard the active participation of license holders is down.).
Mark |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to W1RFI
said by W1RFI:(youtube clip) Anyone can fake a video. If it was that bad, why did only one person complain when radio hobbyists are supposedly so numerous?
Mark |
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 TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by Tzale:There are 30+ hams in my town, and it's only 1 square mile... So I don't see how you think there are only "30 hams" up and down the coast... That was the headline of the "HAMs save the day" article here a few days ago. said by Tzale:Just stop posting That would be easy wouldn't it? It wouldn't even take a whole *one* person reporting BPL interference (when there's supposedly 30+ active hobbyists in a sq. mile.). Mark Because like I said before, not every ham is going to be a hardcore emergency volunteer... What don't you understand about this? A 1000 hams aren't going to come out if they aren't needed...
-Tzale |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
said by rf_engineer:And future generations be damned, I want my cheap ... [blink] [blink] Isn't that what's happening with the lowering of license standards, eliminating the requirement for Morse Code? Essentially encouraging a 10x consumption of precious bandwidth with voice?
What happened to the beloved "future generations" you're so concerned about? Or, does it only matter when *your* ox is being gored?
Mark |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:Because like I said before, not every ham is going to be a hardcore emergency volunteer... I'm glad we've established this. Activists use emergency communications as the reason to safeguard hobby radio. Not only are the number of hobbyists down, but those who participate in the reason to safeguard the hobby are even fewer.
That's my whole point.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by rf_engineer:And future generations be damned, I want my cheap ... [blink] [blink] Isn't that what's happening with the lowering of license standards, eliminating the requirement for Morse Code? Essentially encouraging a 10x consumption of precious bandwidth with voice? What happened to the beloved "future generations" you're so concerned about? Or, does it only matter when *your* ox is being gored? Mark Being tested for morse code doesn't mean you have to use it. Many, many amateurs learned morse code just to pass the test only to never use it again. (The only hardcore requirement for code usage was the long gone novice license which arguably was an introductory entry point and not a long term option for most hams) This dog ain't gonna hunt.
I'd take the time to explain bandwidth and information transmission to debunk your whole "precious bandwidth" and code versus voice argument, but somehow I think it would be a waste of time. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by rf_engineer: there is no shrinking interest in HF spectrum (especially after 9/11). Really? I've been hearing the number of license holders has been going *down*. That's one of the reasons Morse Code was dropped as a requirement, to bring more people in. (I've also heard the active participation of license holders is down.). I said interest in HF spectrum, not Amateur Radio. HF is more than Amateur Radio. |
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TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by Tzale:Because like I said before, not every ham is going to be a hardcore emergency volunteer... I'm glad we've established this. Activists use emergency communications as the reason to safeguard hobby radio. Not only are the number of hobbyists down, but those who participate in the reason to safeguard the hobby are even fewer. That's my whole point. Mark Well your point is null and void since there ARE many hams who DO participate in emergency preparedness, such as myself... I participate in several activities daily related to emergency preparedness.. Just because I've never been "called up" doesn't mean I am not part of the emergency network of this country.
-Tzale |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by rf_engineer:This was one example that was cited. I believe there were other complaints from other people. Reference please. The article under discussion said they received 99 complaints from one person. Correct. But, they didn't say that was the only complaints they received.
Here's a web page that shows several complainants: »homepages.tig.com.au/~vk5vka/bplau.htm . Google is your friend. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
said by rf_engineer:I said interest in HF spectrum, not Amateur Radio. HF is more than Amateur Radio. Ah. So, we're back to the "hobbyists are a vocal minority saving everyone else" argument.
It's so predictable.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by W1RFI:(youtube clip) Anyone can fake a video. Sigh 
[Upon reflection, I do not wish to post. Take me back!] |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
said by rf_engineer:Many, many amateurs learned morse code just to pass the test only to never use it again. Which is an example of the very pragmatism that has radical hobbyists upset. People learned Morse Code only to consume *10* times more bandwidth with voice. Morse is more intelligible under adverse conditions, but hobbyists (according to you) chose to use more bandwidth, and less intelligible communications (communications requiring a higher level of signal to noise to be intelligible.).
But, the rest of the population makes a similar pragmatic choice, and very same hobbyists claim to be victims.
Mark |
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 KA3SGM- -... ...- -Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Cricket Broadband
| reply to Tzale
Tzale, just ignore pendejo_boy, the guy isn't worth the bandwidth to argue with.
Someone needs to call his mommy and daddy(s) and tell them junior is messing with the computer again. 
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by rf_engineer:I said interest in HF spectrum, not Amateur Radio. HF is more than Amateur Radio. Ah. So, we're back to the "hobbyists are a vocal minority saving everyone else" argument. It's so predictable. So what is your position then? HF is worthless because it's just a bunch of hobbyists or it's a valuable public resource? |
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TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | reply to KA3SGM
said by KA3SGM:Tzale, just ignore pendejo_boy, the guy isn't worth the bandwidth to argue with. Someone needs to call his mommy and daddy(s) and tell them junior is messing with the computer again. hi hi...
Good one OM.
73 |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by W1RFI:(youtube clip) Anyone can fake a video. If it was that bad, why did only one person complain when radio hobbyists are supposedly so numerous? Mark So you are calling someone a liar? Interesting personal attack. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by rf_engineer:Many, many amateurs learned morse code just to pass the test only to never use it again. Which is an example of the very pragmatism that has radical hobbyists upset. People learned Morse Code only to consume *10* times more bandwidth with voice. Morse is more intelligible under adverse conditions, but hobbyists (according to you) chose to use more bandwidth, and less intelligible communications (communications requiring a higher level of signal to noise to be intelligible.). But, the rest of the population makes a similar pragmatic choice, and very same hobbyists claim to be victims. You're taking a very simplistic approach. You're not considering the amount of information being transmitted. PSK31 uses even less bandwidth than CW, but it only transmits at 31 baud. The practical limit for most reasonably proficient CW operators is 30 to 50 WPM. What is the speed of voice, 300 WPM (I'm guessing)? Using more bandwidth isn't necessarily evil, you have to consider the amount of information being transmitted.
If you want to get into pragmatic choice debates, tell me how pragmatic it is to place an RF signal on a unshielded media that was designed for 60 hertz energy transmission when a national infrastructure of twisted pair copper designed for such a purpose exists. And how pragmatic is it to that this wired network doesn't even use the wireless spectrum...it pollutes it. On second thought, please don't. This debate isn't worth my time. |
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| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:said by amigo_boy:said by Tzale:Because like I said before, not every ham is going to be a hardcore emergency volunteer... I'm glad we've established this. Activists use emergency communications as the reason to safeguard hobby radio. Not only are the number of hobbyists down, but those who participate in the reason to safeguard the hobby are even fewer. That's my whole point. Mark Well your point is null and void since there ARE many hams who DO participate in emergency preparedness, such as myself... I participate in several activities daily related to emergency preparedness.. Just because I've never been "called up" doesn't mean I am not part of the emergency network of this country. -Tzale Yea, but if the power goes off in an emergency, so does the BPL interference! Problem solved! I'm so smart. Now where did my mom hide the Xbox?  |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to rf_engineer
said by rf_engineer:The practical limit for most reasonably proficient CW operators is 30 to 50 WPM. What is the speed of voice, 300 WPM (I'm guessing)? Using more bandwidth isn't necessarily evil, you have to consider the amount of information being transmitted. Dictation is 120-140 WPM. But, I know how radical radio hobbiests ascribe superhuman powers to themselves.  If we stick with dictation, that means you've chosen to consume 10x bandwidth for only a 4-5x gain.
Anyone except the most biased hobbyists (which, frankly, reminds me of a cult) would admit that the choice to use voice is because "it's easy. To heck with signal-to-noise ratios, intelligibility, using *only* the power necessary to be heard, etc."
said by rf_engineer:tell me how pragmatic it is to place an RF signal on a unshielded media that was designed for 60 hertz energy transmission It's extremely pragmatic when only one person complains. That was the observation I made at the beginning of this thread. But, the cultists couldn't accept it.
said by rf_engineer:On second thought, please don't. This debate isn't worth my time. I understand you don't know how to deal with this. Hobby radio is a walking contradiction. It's to be preserved because it serves a national interest. But, when only 30 (or 60) turn out to serve a national interest, it's because a majority of hobbyists don't concern themselves with emergency preparedness. Interference is to be opposed ... unless it's the hobbyists choosing to consume 10x bandwidth using voice comm which requires a lower signal-to-noise ratio to be intelligible. Pragmatism is to be shunned ... unless it's to get the dwindling license numbers back up (then, jettison Morse code, which, according to you, nobody took seriously anyway, which means most hobbyists chose less efficent, more interference-prone (and causing) voice communications due to pragmatism.
I think you guys could live with FRS and CB radio services.
Mark
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