Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Prot Paladins on Raids
Just curious who uses them and how well they work for you?
On our server, a good majority of our paladins are noobs (horde). Most of them are off being fancylad RP'ers. I have a 45 prot-paladin that I'm looking to take into end-game raid instances. I know that tanking at this level isn't quite the same as tanking at higher levels, but I've tanked places like ZF and Mauradon and it's so nice to be able to do it without the slightest bit of crowd control. It doesn't matter how many mobs there are. Every pull is an easily tankable pull.
On the flipside, when I tank with my wife's druid, she's insanely geared, but can only hold aggro on three mobs at once. I imagine that the ability to tank an endless amount of mobs at once translates up in the higher levels as well.
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BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
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 ·Verizon Online DSL
| We have some pally supertanks, and its fun to run with them as they just pull entire groups at a time without cc. A good example is the large elite pulls like in shattered halls, and various other places. They generate quite a bit of threat with their aoe, and in raids they do some good damage as they tank too. In many cases you might need another class of tank like a warrior on nightbane to prevent loss of aggro on fear for example.
They might not generate the largest amount of aggro per one target when doing this, but ours are very hard to pull from after the first target to be killed. After the first kill they almost always have enough aggro you can just pick any target you want, and start bombing without following a kill order, however killing the same target does make things go faster. If I let them get some aggro first I can start casting seed of corruption throughout the entire group even if they are elites, I will just put siphon life on a few of them first for some life regen so I can tap as I go, this makes shattered halls runs go very quickly. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Fear ward and PVP trinket handle the fears on Nightbane. If your paladin is having trouble, make sure they get their PVP trinket. I did my research on that fight. They can also bubble during the fear and cancel it right as the fear goes off.
Not saying it isn't tricky, but it can certainly be done. In our ZF and Mauradon runs, the DPS ended up just AoEing everything down instead of doing single target DPS.
The only time I seemed to lose aggro is when someone opens up on a mob immediately after I pull. I can frontload a good bit of threat in the beginning, but give them a chance to hit me once or twice before you go all out. I guess that's the nature of the PUG.
You know what I didn't see though? I didn't see the healer eating the damage. The healer never got aggro. That's something, as a healer, I saw all the time. One of the adds being off-tanked just doesn't have enough threat and the mob just peels off. They never fall off me. I do have the unfortunate issue of drinking after nearly every single pull.
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I melt faces. |
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BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Were short on 70 priests atm so fear warding isn't always possible for nightbane, and the trink/shield are only good for couple times during the battle due to the cd. I have a priest I might level soon which I haven't played in a while if I feel like it.
Yeah if I don't give the tank a second, or two at least before I start doing real dps I will pull from them so I take that time to casts a few dots like siphon life, raid spec destro is so mana hungry lol. |
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justanotherlock
@sbcglobal.net
| reply to Archivis
Before my guild Kara run got off the ground I was filling in with another group. The main tank was a prot pally, and he was good. Fights like the stairs and AoE mob pulls were so easy that when I went in with warriors I was surprised to be pulling aggro so fast, mostly because I got spoiled. |
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Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY
clubs:  | reply to Archivis
My guild doesn't use them unfortunately. But my friend's guild does. He says they are amazing in certain boss fights and Hyjal trash. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Archivis
Yeah, we never had any apply for our guild. We had one paladin tank for us in Kara once... off-tank. He told us he didn't get kings because it causes people to pull aggro. What kind of prot paladin doesn't grab kings? It's not like he was in a 25-man where someone else was guaranteed to get it. Haha, oh well. He only went with us once.
I swear, I could have tanked better as a shadowpriest than he could as a prot pally.
But yes, I can hold aggro fairly well, but with all tanks, you can't just open up right away. Within 2-3 seconds of engaging, I can hold aggro pretty well. Once I get my Captain America shield, this shouldn't be such a problem.
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I melt faces. |
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Brazbit
Randomness Personified
Premium
join:2003-10-22
Port Orchard, WA
 ·wavebroadband
| reply to Archivis
Paladins make fine tanks. AOE tanking works well for most instances. Avenger shield is one of the best tank pulling tools I have ever seen.
They are a bit squishy compared to similar geared warrior tanks but an alert healer makes this a non-issue.
As for fear and Nightbane, learn to take a shaman. Problem solved.
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Mineola, NY
clubs:
| reply to Archivis
said by Archivis  :Yeah, we never had any apply for our guild. We had one paladin tank for us in Kara once... off-tank. He told us he didn't get kings because it causes people to pull aggro. What kind of prot paladin doesn't grab kings? It's not like he was in a 25-man where someone else was guaranteed to get it. Haha, oh well. He only went with us once. there is many better tallents they can get, since most holy pallies have this spell...and they are a dime a dozen
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Deschutes
Dum De Da De Da De Dum
Premium
join:2002-06-20
Las Vegas
| reply to Archivis
I love paladin tanks. Whenever I run heroics, I always try to run with a paladin/priest couple I know pretty well. He pulls tons of mobs and she somehow manages to heal him through it. Our Shattered Halls record is 32 minutes from start to finish.
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kywirelessgu
Premium
join:2004-01-25
Nicholasville, KY
clubs:
·Insight Communicat..
| I am a paladin tank
Panthias on Tanaris.
Heroics and 5mans we are way overpowered. Why anyone would pick a warrior over paladin for one of these is beyond me. Shattered halls is the best one for us as there aren't many casters. I've aoe tanked heroic shattered several times now and never lost out on the timed event.
For end game raiding its a little more hit and miss as far as fights you want a pally around for. Single target a warrior just has more mitigation, but for fights like Prince and Leothoras we take less(if any) crushing blows because of our 8 shield block charges over 10 seconds versus a warriors 4.
Ranged taunt is pretty freakin awesome if used correctly as well as the Blessing of Protection works as a taunt too.
We also frontload a lot more threat than a warrior. On undead mobs (most of the stuff in kara) I can push over 1000 tps with my crappy blue one hander.
But like archivis said earlier, alot of threat comes from reflective damage so I'm usually on the rogue not to stun lock and the warrior not to charge till they hit me a couple times.
I absolutely love paladin tanks. I've only tanked the trash up to lurker (then switched out for my hunter for the actual fight), but I'm working on a resist set for hydross as I've seen a video of a pally tank just tanking hydross and his adds for one phase, which would keep us from having a 50/50 resist tank. I've tanked Nightbane and all of kara (2 fear wards, want to try it with 0, got the pvp trinket and two bubbles. really dependent on whether your dps can down him fast enough that 2 or 3 fears happen per ground phase).
I just love being a pally tank. You couldn't pay me to play a warrior. |
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Forlin
join:2007-11-21
Anchorage, AK
3 edits | reply to Archivis
As a hunter I both love and hate tankadins. The problem is if I have to CC. Because of the way they pull, getting that initial agro to trap is almost impossible, and if they give me salv chances are I've killed the trap target before I get to CC.
However drop salv and for some reason it takes a matter of seconds to pull agro on any target but the one I want. Big, big problem.
Having said that there have been a ton of situations where using a Pally as our main tank has saved our butts.
There are certainly plenty of fights where tankadins are probably the worst choice for main tank, but a ton of others where they're the best.
As for druids, two of my best friends in WoW are feral drood tanks. One in particular was geared for SSC before we'd even got close to clearing Kara. However druids do have a big problem holding agro if your DPS is half decent. I can MD and feign to get around my problem - but most of the other DPS has to be very, very careful.
We just about never use a feral druid as a main tank any more. My feeling is warriors and tankadins are your first two choices after Shade and Illhoof - only use a feral druid if you must.
Heroics no problem, they're superb and of course have huge dps too which helps. But I prefer them as backup tanks to take over if something goes bad and just have them dps the crap out of adds or the boss.
The one thing that might change that opinion is their armor rating, which more than makes up for their lower health. But I'd still prefer to have them as backup rather than main. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| You just roll with the wrong druids. Our feral druid holds massive threat. And she can take a good beating too. She has about 23k HP raid buffed, 32k armor and 45% dodge. People are more comfortable healing her than most of our other tanks and our 1k DPS players prefer her threat over others. |
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bored_in_nh
join:2003-01-04
Stamping Ground, KY
·RoadRunner Cable
| I love pally tanks for 2 reasons. Not just for the reasons already mentioned, but my favorite buff - Blessing of Might. With 106 hit rating, BoM, onslaught elixir, and a warp burger, my DPS is godlike. Plus, with a pally tank, I hardly ever have to FD to drop aggro. |
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shray
Premium
join:2002-09-05
Edison, NJ | reply to Archivis
Paladin Tanks:
-Heroic Shattered Halls/Shadow Lab
-SSC
-Hyjal |
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kywirelessgu
Premium
join:2004-01-25
Nicholasville, KY
clubs:
·Insight Communicat..
| reply to bored_in_nh
said by bored_in_nh :I love pally tanks for 2 reasons. Not just for the reasons already mentioned, but my favorite buff - Blessing of Might. With 106 hit rating, BoM, onslaught elixir, and a warp burger, my DPS is godlike. Plus, with a pally tank, I hardly ever have to FD to drop aggro. In heroics Hunters are the only people I don't give salvatiion to. It allows people to open up more, especially aoe heavy classes like mages and warlocks. But I've played a hunter and realize there's no need for salv.
A good enhancement shammy still pisses me off. Even with salv on I gotta work my ass off to keep ahead on aggro. No biggy in heroics but in normal 5 mans or weak bosses I tend to go oom pretty fast so I really have to manage my mana when shammies are along. |
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Deschutes
Dum De Da De Da De Dum
Premium
join:2002-06-20
Las Vegas
| said by kywirelessgu :A good enhancement shammy still pisses me off. Even with salv on I gotta work my ass off to keep ahead on aggro. No biggy in heroics but in normal 5 mans or weak bosses I tend to go oom pretty fast so I really have to manage my mana when shammies are along. I agree with that. We have two enchancement shammies in our guild who are crazy powerful. They almost out dps our two top rogues and they always out dps our casters except for aoe heavy fights. I used to be enhancement but grew tired of dying in raids and instances, so switched to elemental. Windfury is just impossible to control, so it pulls too much threat. Shamans really need an aggro dump other than death.
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Stupid Bush quote of the week:
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BILDO
join:2007-11-13
Rosenberg, TX
| reply to justanotherlock
said by justanotherlock :
Before my guild Kara run got off the ground I was filling in with another group. The main tank was a prot pally, and he was good. Fights like the stairs and AoE mob pulls were so easy that when I went in with warriors I was surprised to be pulling aggro so fast, mostly because I got spoiled.
Ya I have ran kara before as an OT with Pally MT.. Only prob pally had was with the pulls on the way to and after curator. mana wraths.. I finally got to tank something! yay |
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Hardcore
The Cow Says
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Albany, GA | reply to Archivis
Which PVP trinket? I'm running a Prot Pally and I'd like to know.
Are there any good tanking guides out there?
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kywirelessgu
Premium
join:2004-01-25
Nicholasville, KY
clubs:
·Insight Communicat..
1 edit | said by Hardcore :Which PVP trinket? I'm running a Prot Pally and I'd like to know. Are there any good tanking guides out there? »maintankadin.failsafedesign.com
The holy grail of protection paladin tanking. One of the moderators has Illidan's shield. Makes me jealous.
And the pvp trinket is just the Insignia of the Horde/Alliance and Medallion of the Horde/Alliance.
Dispels fears, traps, cc, etc. First is 5 min cooldown, second is 2 min cooldown. |
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